RE: Old K&B Engines

RE: Old K&B Engines
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RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/1/2004 4:09:22 AM

w8ye

Posts: 17490
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
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Old Perry carbs get into a nasty habit of the idle disk rotating with the throttle arm making the carb unusable. A friend in Ogden UT unfastened the C-clip adjacent to the idle disk and put a small regular O-ring between the disk and the arb body. This seemed to keep the idle disk in place. The original O-rings in the grooves of the mixture spindle are of a special material and should be purchased from Conley. However, they are very hard and often difficult to replace.

Enjoy,

Jim

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Post #: 51

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/1/2004 4:24:08 AM

ArayRC

Posts: 85
Joined: 10/3/2002
From: Cape Ann, MA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

The original O-rings in the grooves of the mixture spindle are of a special material and should be purchased from Conley. However, they are very hard and often difficult to replace.

Enjoy,

Jim

Anbody know how hard it is to replace o-rings on the mixture spindle of a perry carb?

do you need a special tool?

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Post #: 52

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/1/2004 4:27:29 AM

William Robison

Posts: 20269
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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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W8YE and others:

The o-rings on the mixture disc are a special material as stated, when the mixture disc turns with the throttle these two o-rings should be replaced. That will correct the problem.

A very thin o-ring between the flange of the disc might be OK, but moving the disc out of the body more than a very small amount can cause misalignment of the internal ports.

Better just to get the new, correct, o-rings.

Bill.

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Post #: 53

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/1/2004 4:37:10 AM

William Robison

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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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Ray:

The old o-rings can be taken out easily using a #11 X-Acto blade, or similar. They do get hard in service, after you pull a set don't consider using them again.

The new o-rings are easily installed. Please note they are different sizes, the larger one goes next to the flange. Put a drop of castor oil on a clean hard surface, wet both o-rings thoroughly. Dab a little oil on the CLEAN disc extension. Slip the smaller into its outer groove, then the inner will slide over the end and popping it into its groove is easy. Don't use any tool other than your fingernails, they will work nicely and will not cut the o-rings.

Have fun, it's not in the least hard.

Bill.

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Post #: 54

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/2/2004 12:34:15 AM

Richard39

Posts: 448
Joined: 12/17/2002
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
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William, I checked out the 5060 Dave Brown motor mount today and it looks like it would be too short for the pumped K&B .61....unless the pump went a little inside the motor mount..... How do I turn the pump and does it matter in which direction the pump is turned as long as I use the correct fuel nipple outlet for the carburator connection..?

On the paper work with the Dave Brown 5060 it stated that it would fit the K&B 45 engine.... Is the .61 and the .45 the same size case? Thanks... Richard

< Message edited by Richard39 -- 12/2/2004 12:35:22 AM >

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Post #: 55

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/2/2004 2:02:53 AM

William Robison

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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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Richard:

the DB 5060 mount is fine for the 6550 ringed 61 engine without the pump, and it is just long enough for the 6560 pumped engine with, as I said, some slight relief for the fuel hoses. The pressure adjuster screw will clear the firewall by about 1/16", plenty of room. You will have to dismount the engine to adjust the pressure though, unless you have the special thin wrench that used to come with the pumper versions. Best to adjust pressure on a test stand anyway.

The pump can be left in its normal position on the engine, or if you mount the engine sideways (with the exhaust pointing down) turn the pump so the "V" on the flange is to the top. This will put the pump outlet away from the carb, but it doesn't cause a problem by having the fuel hose run across to the carb on the other side. The "V" is supposed to be on top, this puts the pump drain hole down.

The K&B 45 is the "Sportster" engine, I don't have one so I can't say about the fit in the DB 5060 mount.

The K&B ringed 40 engines need 1.315" between the mount rails, the DB 4045 or 404L mounts work on them. The 4045 is standard length, the 404L has longer arms. DB doesn't make a long version of the 5060 so far as I know. But again, the 5060 works with the pumper 61 anyway.

Bill.

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Post #: 56

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/2/2004 5:35:36 PM

Richard39

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From: Birmingham, AL, USA
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Thanks again William for the good information on the K&B 61 ringed engine.... I have the mount and will set it up on my airplane for a look see... Thanks.. Richard

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Post #: 57

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/2/2004 6:34:23 PM

ArayRC

Posts: 85
Joined: 10/3/2002
From: Cape Ann, MA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: William Robison

Ray:

The old o-rings can be taken out easily using a #11 X-Acto blade, or similar. They do get hard in service, after you pull a set don't consider using them again.

The new o-rings are easily installed. Please note they are different sizes, the larger one goes next to the flange. Put a drop of castor oil on a clean hard surface, wet both o-rings thoroughly. Dab a little oil on the CLEAN disc extension. Slip the smaller into its outer groove, then the inner will slide over the end and popping it into its groove is easy. Don't use any tool other than your fingernails, they will work nicely and will not cut the o-rings.

Have fun, it's not in the least hard.

Bill.

Bill:

thanks for the information. I thought they would be easy to replace... but I wasn't sure.

when I order the o-ring from Perry... should I tell them what engine it came from.. or should I tell them the exact size of the o-ring?

with Perry carbs there is no part number on the carb. I have the old style and newer style perry carbs. (needle valve seal.. and without the seal) plus a few Perry Pump carbs that are in need of new o-rings. and it would be nice to have them as spare parts when ever I may need one.

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Post #: 58

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/2/2004 7:05:46 PM

William Robison

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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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Ray:

Back in the dark ages, when it was "Perry Aeromotive," you ordered a carb for a particular engine. Perry's even said not to out a Super Tigre Perry on a K&B, even if they were the same engine size, and would fit one in the other. Perry said they were calibrated to the engine they were ordered for.

I've never had any trouble interchanging them so long as the spigot would fit the engine, and the bore size was in range for the size of the engine. I'll admit some have been a bear to set up, but they've all worked out.

When you order the o-ring set, tell them the bore diameter, and the size of the spigot. Also, if it has the flow regulator specify that it is a "Pump" carb. If that's not enough to identify the size needed they'll call you back.

Not as bad as it seems, though, my old parts list gives me part number B731 for the o-ring set in all the Perry carbs. Give then the specs anyway, to be safe.

Bill.

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Post #: 59

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/2/2004 7:14:53 PM

bruce88123

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Joined: 11/26/2004
From: Memphis, TN, USA
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Any idea how they are getting the time codes on these letters? Not valid for anywhere in USA or ZULU time. Somewhere in England?

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Post #: 60

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/2/2004 9:43:23 PM

Richard39

Posts: 448
Joined: 12/17/2002
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Status: offline

William and others with K&B 65 experience..... I have a used ( may not have been run?) but maybe NEW K&B Sportster 65 engine that I ran yesterday and today on my test stand for a short time.... It is extremely tight and is difficult to rev up much regardless of the needle valve setting... It will just quit when I try to go past 50% throttle...

Do these engines require a long break in and how would you recommend breaking in this 65 sportster?...The exhaust is dripping dark/black oil residue.... It is tight but does start easy with a strong battery with my hand held starter.... Started it yesterday for the first time and I used a chicken stick... Today it may have been flooded and would not start by hand until I took out the plug and blew out the fuel with the electric starter....

I had a used one just like this that was given to me and it ran great... strong compression and started easy by hand/chicken stick... Lost that engine and airplane in the woods... still looking now four weeks... like that engine a lot... hope this one that I am breaking in will be as good... Thanks...

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Post #: 61

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/2/2004 10:37:34 PM

MikeSell

Posts: 801
Joined: 10/26/2002
From: Flushing, MI, USA
Status: offline

These engines are non-ringed AAC bushed engines. They should be broken in with castor based fuels, run close to peak (not slobbery rich), and with low nitro fuels. You are running off the disc adjustment at low throttle settings and the main needle at high RPM.

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Post #: 62

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/2/2004 10:45:00 PM

William Robison

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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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Richard:

Be sure the head screws that go all the way into the base of the cylinder block aren't overtightened, and are tightened evenly. If not done correctly the cylinder can get distorted, znd if too tight the threads will strip from the block.

Other than this, the engine is just about bullet proof.

Bill.

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AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

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Post #: 63

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/2/2004 10:46:59 PM

William Robison

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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
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Mike:

Thanks. I forgot to mention the AAC and castor.

Bill.

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Real Airplanes have Two Engines
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Post #: 64

RE: Old K&B Engines - 12/3/2004 1:49:12 AM

smedsky

Posts: 218
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Kirkland, WA, USA
Status: offline

Per the O'ring discussion. Not all black O'rings are alike. The most common ones are Buna-N, however I think the ones we want are viton. Any bearing house should be able to check their compatibility chart to see what will withstand the alcohol and nitro.

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