Midwest Giles G-202  
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All Forums >> TEAM RCU >> TEAM RCU - Mike McConville >> Midwest Giles G-202
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Midwest Giles G-202 - 10/26/2004 9:53:36 PM   
Nickolas



Posts: 739
Joined: 6/21/2004
From: Athens, GREECE
Status: offline 		Hi Mike,

I have MW Giles G202 designed by you, I have flown it about 10 times not more. It is a nice plane for precision stuff but when you try a bit of hot dogging it snaps violently with elvator up or down depending on its position. How can I really improve this? What kind of modifcations would be required to fly 3D with this plane? The control throws given in the manual are not enough for 3D I think, the issue here is that my throws can not be much larger than those as the hinges do not permit that. It is a very nice plane though I attach a photo.

I look forward to your reply.

Regards,

Nik

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       Post #: 1

RE: Midwest Giles G-202 - 10/26/2004 11:09:41 PM   
MMcConville


 

Posts: 2003
Joined: 6/26/2003
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Pretty model! Thats a long time ago and it was done just before I started wxperimenting with 3D. I remember the Giles tended to come out heavy, so tha isnt helping much. Also if you have much less the 35 degrees elevator, that isnt helping. I'd do what you have to to get 40 degrees elevator and try spoilerons. The latter helped my 42% version of the Giles quite a lot in high alpha flight.

(in reply to Nickolas)
       Post #: 2

RE: Midwest Giles G-202 - 10/27/2004 7:31:10 AM   
Nickolas



Posts: 739
Joined: 6/21/2004
From: Athens, GREECE
Status: offline 		Thanks Mike,

What about the high speed stall and thus violent snap when I pull up? How can I correct that??

Regards,

Nik

(in reply to MMcConville)
       Post #: 3

RE: Midwest Giles G-202 - 10/27/2004 3:03:43 PM   
MMcConville


 

Posts: 2003
Joined: 6/26/2003
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		How much does it weigh? I'd do a couple o things. First, put it on a diet. Get as much weight out of it as possible. Secondly, check the wing panels to be sure there is no twist in them. TE twisted down toward the tip will promote a tip stall.

(in reply to Nickolas)
       Post #: 4

RE: Midwest Giles G-202 - 12/27/2004 2:23:35 AM   
Rcpilot


 

Posts: 6556
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Arvada, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I've built the Midwest Extra and am currently building the Giles that Mike designed years ago.

The words Giles and 3D were never meant to be said in the same sentence. The full scale Giles was designed as a pattern plane and was never meant to be a radical 3D machine. Sure, there are MODELS that arent' true to scale and they will 3D, but I challenge anyone to find a pic of a full scale Giles doing a torqueroll or a harrier.

I built the Extra according to the plans and it came out at 17.25 pounds with a 54cc gasser. I got mad and never flew it. Sold the airframe to a guy in Ohio. It would have been a nice plane at sea level, but in Denver at 6000' that weight was just unacceptable.

Mike Hurley told me to lighten the heck out of it. He gave me an idea whereby the only parts of the fuse that I would use would be the firewall area and the sides to establish the profile and wing saddle. He told me to scrap all the rest of the fuse and build formers from balsa.

It was a good idea, and it would have worked, but I didn't want to redesign the kit- so I built it stock and got a pig.

I learned a lesson there, and the Giles has been tackled with an almost crazy attention to weight.

I scrapped ALL the supplied sheeting in the kit and replaced it all with Contest Grade balsa. When the CG Balsa showed up at my front door- I got it all together and weighed it along side the stock supplied balsa. I got a weight savings of 9oz.

I've sheeted the LE and TE of the wings with the CG Balsa. I've sheeted my horizontal stab and my vertical fin with the CG Balsa. Also- with ther design of the ailerons-- I've sheeted the ailerons with the CG Balsa too.

I replaced the spruce spars with heavy balsa and CF tape laminated to both top and bottom of the spars. Saved about 3-4oz.

I replaced the turtledeck sheeting with the CG Balsa, instead of the 1/32" ply. Saved 2oz.

I replaced the fron hatch 1/32" ply sheeting with CG Balsa too. Saved between 1-2oz.

I bought CF landing gear. Saved 5oz.

I bought fiberglass cowl and wheelpants for it. Saved about 6oz.

Total savings is between 25-27oz. Not bad for about $100 investment in extra stuff. (LG, Cowl, wheelpants, CG Balsa)

The plane is still being framed.

I tried to buy Contest Grade Balsa for the sticks in the elevators, stab, rudder, and fin, but I couldn't find a supplier for those sticks. I was only able to find a supplier for CG Balsa in the sheeting, but not the sticks.

I drilled 3/4" holes in the plywood former that makes the rear of the cockpit------the front of the turtledeck.

I drilled 3/4" holes in the sides of the fuse under the front hatch area. I didn't want to drill holes in the motorbox-- because then I would have had to cover it to keep air out. Didn't seam worth it.

I replaced the rear hatch former. It's plywood, and wasn't necessary. I replaced it with 3/32" balsa. It'll be covered by the canopy when the model is finished, so I didn't see a need for ply under that area. The fuse is plenty strong enough to hold together without that piece of ply.

I took a dremel and a sanding drum to the rest of the fuse. Mostly in the TAIL section behind the wing saddle. I don't want it to come out tail heavy. I'm trying to remove as much unneeded weight in the tail as possible. Nose-heavy planes are EASY to fix. Tail-heavy is NOT easy to fix. I just enlarged all the lightening holes with my dremel. The piece of ply under the turtledeck and on the top of the fuse is an area where i really went to work with the dremel. It's a BIG piece of ply and it's not really necessary that it be so rigid under the turtledeck. I dremeled it down to about 1/8" all around the holes. I also dremeled the sides of the fuse behind the wing saddle.

I've increased the cord of the ailerons by about 15%. I just cut a new notch in the ribs where the 1/8x1/4 balsa stringers are glued in place. It was quite a bit of work, but I got big ailerons now. For 3D work, your better off to have a large control surface and only deflect it as much as you need----rather than a small control surface and trying to deflect it to max every time and stress the hinges and servos.

I've increased the cord of the elevators by 1". Horizontal stab is stock.

I've increased the cord of my rudder by 3/4". The Giles already has a very powerfull rudder- so I didn't think a radical change in cord was necessary.

I plan to fly this plane in IMAC and simple aerobatics. It's not a 3D plane. I may try some hovering with it, I guess. It might do some simple 3D with the mods I've done and the weight I've saved, but I'm not really building it for that. It's being built for basic IMAC maneuvers. If I can manage to throw it around and do mild 3D with it-- then great. But, I just want a smooth, light flier for IMAC.

I'm torn on the engine. I'd like to run a gasser on it, but I know it will just bring the weight back up and make it fly heavy.

I guess I'm stuck with glow on this one. I'll probably try and get the biggest and lightest engine I can stuff in it and make it balance without any lead. I've designed the plane with dual elevator servos in the tail and the rudder servo is still up in the air. Rudder servo location will be determined after it's almost comeplete. I'll use the rudder servo and my engine to balance it.

Since I'll be flying it at high altude, I'll be looking for a pretty big engine. The Saito 180 is pretty light, but I'm not a big 4-stroke fan. I would like to stuff a Moki 2.10 in the nose, but don't know if it'll fit.

Servos will be JR 9011 mid size coreless. They are light and have 60oz. torque and a coreless motor. I'll use those on the elevators and ailerons. I've got a JR Matchbox for the elevator servos. I've got a 9411 for the rudder and I'll use a little 3021 for my throttle. Battery will be 6V, metal hydride, and probably around 1200mah.

I'm going for as light as I can get it without sacrificing any strength.

I've uploaded a few pics of the Midwest Extra 300S. It turned out nice, but I wish it'd been 2 pounds lighter.

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< Message edited by Rcpilet -- 12/27/2004 2:32:49 AM >

_____________________________

Airplanes have expiration dates. It''s just not printed anywhere on them.
I''m not really an airplane pilot; but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

(in reply to MMcConville)
       Post #: 5

RE: Midwest Giles G-202 - 5/5/2008 1:45:07 PM   
bodybuildr


 

Posts: 1
Joined: 7/21/2005
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I was doing some reasearch, I just bought the Midwest Giles g-202 and came across a thread where you hade made a lot of modifications to the kit, just wondering how much it weighed and how it flew after the mods. What engine did you use ?

Thank You

(in reply to Rcpilot)
       Post #: 6

RE: Midwest Giles G-202 - 5/5/2008 5:55:14 PM   
Owen V


 

Posts: 19
Joined: 4/12/2008
From: newcastleKZN, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline 		I've had a high speed stall with a few planes before and have learnt from full scale pilot why and how this happens

If you are getting a high speed stall it would mean that you are pulling too much up elevator at a high speed and because of this you are loosing air speed all of a sudden and the plane would then do a type of snap because of the plane being stalled.
It will still fly on afterwards because you most probably still have full throttle and this gives the plane air speed again after the high speed stall

To stop this try not pulling to much up elevator at a high speed so that the plane will still have air speed at all times.
A high speed stall can be dangerous low to the ground or even high up because sometimes the plane can stall and possibly go into a spin and sometimes you can not get a plane out of a spin

(in reply to bodybuildr)
       Post #: 7

RE: Midwest Giles G-202 - 10/10/2008 7:19:48 AM   
rameshtahlan


 

Posts: 2
Joined: 5/15/2007
From: N DELHI, INDIA
Status: offline 		Could any one help me get CAD for Giles G 202, 2 stroke 1.20. I have always scratch build and do not want to get into ARFs. The pleasure in scratch building is enormous. I do have full size plans, but it does not give individual ribs outline except for the root and R4 ribs. With the CAD would i be able to get actual size printout so i can shape the ribs? HELP.
Ramesh.

(in reply to Owen V)
       Post #: 8

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