RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       


90 Degree Muffler Adapter
Seller:  RC Specialties
Details:   $17.95   |  7/13/2008   |  Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Glow Engines >> RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem
Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 12/8/2004 8:09:00 AM   
Squid


 

Posts: 42
Joined: 2/7/2003
From: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline
Hi Wayne,

Opps I forgot to mention, I have been running an exhaust deflector all along, maybe thats why It doesnt seem to need an additional baffle in the exhaust.

Your tuning method seems pretty spot on. I use a non scientific method, combining a pinch test and acceleration test, just peak on the main needle, then do the following:
1) High speed run 10 secs
2) Idle 10 secs
3) Pinch fuel inlet pipe as near to the carb inlet as possible (should run 2-3 secs, picking up slightly). No need to wait till motor cuts. If picks up (and possibly dies) immediately, too lean. If takes 5 secs to pick up, too rich. Adjust idle screw 1/8th turn accordingly and repeat 1-3 until happy.
4) Repeat 1 & 2
5) Test transtion from idle to full power with a smart shove forward on the stick. Should accelerate cleanly. If not, probably a tab rich. Lean idle screw 1/8th turn are repeat whole procedure from 1.
6) If ok, re-peak the main needle if necessary and check the vertical. If too lean on the vertical richen a click the main a click or two.

Hope that helps!

Regards,
Mark

(in reply to Wayne Miller)
       Post #: 76

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 12/8/2004 1:14:22 PM   
Wayne Miller


 

Posts: 967
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: DrumboOntario, CANADA
Status: offline
Hi Squid,

I your method is what I would normally do, however I did find a hard time getting an initial starting point with the GMS carb. Hence, the peaking of both the high speed and low speed needle at full throttle first, as described earlier. This is a good "ball park" setting and is pretty close, fine tunig the way you suggested should put it "spot on".

I suspect the exhaust deflector would help with the muffler pressure.

Thanks for all your help, I'm sure all GMS .47 owners appreciate your work.

It would be good if we can get some more feed back.

Great working with you!

Fly4Fun,

Wayne

(in reply to Squid)
       Post #: 77

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 12/9/2004 8:25:04 AM   
Squid


 

Posts: 42
Joined: 2/7/2003
From: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline
Wayne its been a pleasure!

It is great indeed how the internet can bring together modellers from all over the world to help solve problems and reach a common goal.

I look forward to hearing how others are getting on with their GMSs and how much the other capacities of motor are affected apart from the 47s.

Cheers
Mark

(in reply to Wayne Miller)
       Post #: 78

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 12/9/2004 4:02:02 PM   
AirGar



Posts: 1121
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Alta Loma, CA, USA
Status: offline
Hey Wayne,

Have not forgot about you, or this thread. If it ever dries out where we fly, my Sonic/GMS 47 will be the first thing I tackle.

What I want to do first, is compare (visually) the one that runs like a clock, to the one that quits at full throttle. Stay tuned (pun intended)

Gary

_____________________________

>>>>>> Un-Certified Speed "Demon"!! <<<<<<
(((Revver numero three'o)))

(in reply to Squid)
       Post #: 79

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 12/9/2004 4:22:29 PM   
Turbobeaver


 

Posts: 301
Joined: 12/11/2003
From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
Hi all.Reading this posting on the GMS .47 has been most interesting and informative.It's kind of like reading a good murder/mystery novel.You can't wait to get to the end to find out "who done it"!

After reading all of the above information,I was thinking much along the same lines as some of the other posters as to areas that I would address.It seems most have been implemented but I did happen to think of one other.The older style "tuned muffler" consists of 3 separate components.The front housing,center aluminum pipe section and rear exhaust outlet section.With two major joints on this style of muffler,you may be loosing a lot of your back pressure through these joint area's.Has anyone RTV'd these joints up and tested the engine to find out if it makes any difference in performance or not?This problem maybe contributed to one thing or a combination of things but for what it's worth,I thought it was worth mentioning anyways.Good flying gents!

(in reply to Squid)
       Post #: 80

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 12/9/2004 5:46:04 PM   
Flyer Freq



Posts: 905
Joined: 8/20/2002
From: Appleton, WI, USA
Status: offline
As time wears on, the joints in the muffler leak more and more and are usually distinguishable by black, oily soot oozing from them. This has not caused my .47 any running problems .

_____________________________

Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rise up and smite thee!
If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans

(in reply to Turbobeaver)
       Post #: 81

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 12/9/2004 5:48:14 PM   
Wayne Miller


 

Posts: 967
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: DrumboOntario, CANADA
Status: offline
Hi Gary and Turbobeaver,

Gary,
Hope your field dries out shortly, we look forward to your input!

Turbobeaver,
The joints on my "silver" style muffler were very tight, infact it showed no signs of the black liquid seapage that usually occurs at bad muffler/engine joints, but it would be a good idea for others to check. I look forward to the day I can get to see the air museum in Ottawa - last time I was there I did some white water rafting. Glad your enjoying the post, I'm really enjoyed working with this group of modelers, they are great and its been very productive.

Fly4Fun,

Wayne

(in reply to Turbobeaver)
       Post #: 82

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 12/9/2004 9:16:57 PM   
Wayne Miller


 

Posts: 967
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: DrumboOntario, CANADA
Status: offline
Hi Bill,

Thanks for the information, this forum is for the resolving of a GMS problem, and the wrong place for your ad. You probably would get a better response if you post in the "MARKETPLACE" section.

Good luck on selling your engine.

Fly4Fun,

Wayne

(in reply to Hurricanebill)
       Post #: 83

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 1/2/2005 12:37:28 AM   
Flyer Freq



Posts: 905
Joined: 8/20/2002
From: Appleton, WI, USA
Status: offline
O.K. Guy's!

We had our annual Frozen Finger Funfly today, and my friend finally turned his .47 over to me. The first thing I noticed was that his carburator has two O-rings sealing it, where it mounts to the crankcase, and my old .47, which runs perfectly, has only one. I would say that he should have a better seal around the base of the carb than mine does, but the O-ring is really stiff and hard. I can't help feel that changing to a silicone O-ring would help here. I will try to get another O-ring, as I am afraid I knicked the O-ring while removing it.

I next removed the inlet nipple. About 1/3rd of the hole in the brass insert was covered by the edge of the carb body. When I compared it to mine, the edge of the hole in the brass insert was lined up with the edge of the hole in the carb body. The newer carb appears to be consistant with the findings you have made with the bad runners. I took the rest of the parts off the boddy and laid the carb on its side and knocked the insert out with a rubber hammer. It came out with a couple firm taps. The hole in the insert was uniformly round on one side of the barrel, but the other side resembled the shape of a kidney. I can't be sure which side was facing the nipple. When I compared the holes in the brass insert from my good carb, the holes in mine were nice and uniform on both sides.

Everything else between the two carbs looked identical. At this point, I reassembled the newer carb, being careful to line up the holes. I used a nipple from an air tool to slide over the end of the brass insert. I then pounded the insert into place. I made sure I didn't pound it in too far. I wasn't sure if installing the high speed needle barrel would pull the holes out of alignment when tightened down, but it did not. The barrel is tight and everything is in proper alignment. All that remains now is to run the engine with a new base O-ring. I wish I didn't have to change the O-ring, as now I won't know if the engine runs well, if it was the alignment of the holes, the new O-ring or both.

I will see how quickly I can get a new O-ring, and report back. Engines don't run particularly well in the severe cold we get here, but I should be able to tell something. I may try putting the newer carb on my engine to see how it does. After all, my .47 doesn't have that O-ring inside the crankcase.

Till later!!!

Andy

< Message edited by Flyer Freq -- 1/2/2005 12:39:55 AM >


_____________________________

Lose not thy airspeed, lest the ground rise up and smite thee!
If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans

(in reply to Wayne Miller)
       Post #: 84

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 1/2/2005 1:32:45 AM   
Wayne Miller


 

Posts: 967
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: DrumboOntario, CANADA
Status: offline
Hi Andy,

Thanks for the very detailed report.

I was wondering if the brass insert would come out without damaging it, and was afraid to try. I'm assuming you drove it out from the inside of the carb - if so, did you use a brass punch? If not, could you explain how you did it?

I also fly in cold weather, we usually put a couple of drops of lighter fluid in the carb immediately before starting, it works well. You may want to give it a try.

I look forward to your next report.

Thanks for taking the time to help us out, its really appreciated.

Fly4Fun,

Wayne Miller

(in reply to Flyer Freq)
       Post #: 85

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 1/2/2005 10:09:02 PM   
Waco Driver



Posts: 157
Joined: 1/16/2003
From: Paris, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
Leakage from the front bearing seems to be a common complaint on the GMS 47 and Tower 46. Excessive crankcase to crankshaft clearance in the area between the ball bearings certainly affects crankcase base compression and fuel draw ability. Has anyone taken the time to remove the ball bearings and check the actual running clearance between the crank and the crankcase? If the clearance is more than .0015", I would be very suspicious. While air and fuel leakage from the front bearing area may not bother an engine that is not used for aerobatics, it will always show up as a poor ability to draw fuel when the nose is pointed up.

The modifications to increase fuel pressure and remove the flow resriction in the carb have apparently helped the fuel draw ability of the engines involved. I do not feel that they have got to the root of the problem however. It would be interesting to see if these engines can be flown without muffler pressure.

Before the onset of cold weather I was just starting to help a new student learn to fly with a new GMS 47. While it ran good at times, I had it flame out a few times for no apparent reason. I will be looking at it in the near future and my first investigation will be to look at the above mentioned clearance as his engine also drips fuel from the front bearing. I will report my findings in due course.

_____________________________

MAAC 6273 L

(in reply to Wayne Miller)
       Post #: 86

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 1/3/2005 1:06:26 AM   
seagull extra


 

Posts: 110
Joined: 9/8/2003
From: Elmira, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
I have just read this post as I too have had simular problems with my GMS 47. I had a very frustrating time with mine this summer when I mounted it in my See Bee 40 size pattern plane. I had run the GMS in my trainer before and It seemed okay, but once I installed it on my See Bee I would always lean out in arobatic flight and dead stick. I also had a MDS 40 so I swapped it out with the GMS and it would do the same thing as the GMS so I naturally thought it was somthing with the installation. But I could not find any problems with the fuel system. At our annual KWFD scale rally Flite Craft had a great deal on Super Tigre engines so I bought a G-51 and put it in the SeeBee and it has performed great right from the start.
I did check under the inlet nipple on my carb and the hole does not line up on mine, but by blowing air through it I would say it doesn't seem to be affecting flow much but I will rill it out anyway, just incase I need to use this motor in the future.
PS. I ended up putting the MDS 40 with the GMS old style muffler on my trainer with floats
and it has crazy power! This plane is at my cottage and I did not have my tack but it absolutly screamed with that pipe.

(in reply to Waco Driver)
       Post #: 87

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 1/3/2005 1:10:57 AM   
Wayne Miller


 

Posts: 967
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: DrumboOntario, CANADA
Status: offline
Hi Waco Driver,

I have attached a long piece of fuel tube to my carb input nipple, then blocked both the exhaust port and carb throat and blown into the fuel tubing to check for front bearing leaks. There was a little air escaping, but very little. Since I have both an older and newer GMS .47 (the newer one runs great) I compared the two and both leaked air about the same.

Since sealing the carb and enlarging the carb input and exhaust nipple, my "bad" engine runs fine now without the extra exhaust baffles.

I noticed we live fairly close together, and since we have 3 GMS's between us, perhaps we could do some comparisons. Send me a PM if your interested in getting together.

Thanks for your input, I look forward to your findings.

Fly4Fun,

Wayne Miller

(in reply to Waco Driver)
       Post #: 88

RE: GMS Engine Tuning Problem - 1/3/2005 2:0