loggiedog
Posts: 6
Joined: 11/23/2004
From: , VT, USA
Status: offline
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Crrw5,
I relaxed some of the guidelines like airworthiness requirements or private pilot certificates because they aren't needed except if they are going to be in FAA airspace, and then they need to be regulated quite a bit.
When I mean fly waypoints for autopilots, I mean the autopilot performs the navigation and control using some sort of controller i.e. PID controller to relate throttle to altitude/airspeed, aileron to bank angle, rudder to heading, and other relationships. I have never built an autopilot and I use a commercially available one. You can simulate with these devices and you can also trigger payload and even communicate with a computing device. The computing device does higher level mission things, like automatically setting waypoints, velocity, altitude, turn rate in order to establish a specific mission, relying on the PID loops in the autopilot to do them safely and correctly.
Quote:
"In these controlled circumstances, a UAV may be operated and if the rules are followed, UAV development should be encouraged as a separate and controlled hobby so that R/C is not put at risk. Also, UAVS can be R/C aircraft, but these aircraft must be absolutely robust and have appropriate vibration mounts."
And R/C planes aren't "absolutely robust" with "appropriatre vibration mounts"? I respectfully disagree. Thats just describing a well built aircraft(model or otherwise).
If you use a cheap switch, you don't mount your batteries correctly so that they come loose and disconnected, properly secure all wiring connections, etc, your OS 160FX with an 18x10 prop hard mounted to the firewall might vibrate the hell out of the airplane. I lost a 1/4 scale in RC mode because the person who built the system before me did not build it well (i.e. make it robust enough). Since autopilots are expensive, you want to pay attention to detail. Even the smallest thing like failing to use strip ties to wire up the system might cause some wire to obstruct the servo motion and crash the model. These are all things that are important to make sure the vehicle works properly while the vehicle flies. Of course the same rule applies to R/Cers, but UAVs have more wires, more batteries, and more connections to fail. Nothing feels worse than watching a properly flying model nose into the ground and shatter to 100s of pieces without control because engine vibration caused a failure somewhere between the powerswitch and the battery or caused a battery underneath the fuel tank to dislodge. I had to redesign the battery storage compartment and change to big switches to make sure I didn't lose another $400 ARF plane.
"Whats wrong with the "cool factor"? That's why the vast majority of us are playing with "toy" airplanes. I don't know about anyone else, but R/C is also serious buisness, ask someone who works in the industry. Define a "normal" R/C plane. 40 size trainer? Jet that costs $5000? micro-electric that uses scavenged parts? That's a pretty limited view of a very large and diverse hobby, IMHO. Maybe that's someones idea of fun? Want to talk about long hours? Lets not. You mention contracting with the military? Been there, done that, still doing that. N'uff said. "
Cool factor is fine, just keep in mind that UAVs can do more things because you can let the onboard system do the work for you. If you have a UAV perform "pilot inspired manuevers" like flying inverted across the runway at a model field without your input that's very impressive. If you're in the industry, you realize the technology is hard to obtain, and while you can definitely make your own with a high powered microcontroller and an IMU, a GPS, and a pitot-static system, it will take you a long time to do but it is not impossible for an aeronautical engineer with control systems experience to do all by his or her self. But UAVs are more stressful and more expensive because not only do you have the airframe, you have the autopilot, sensors, cameras, and other items too to worry about should the airframe go down. You also aren't covered by AMA. Also, if you don't have the controller set right with the proper gains, the autopilot may not fly the vehicle in a safe manner. There are simply more steps involved. It is not as easy to do as going to the field with an RC Jet and burning up the tarmac, partly due to regulations and partly due to technical matters.
"I totally disagree. Define a "dangerous payload". How high is "that high"? "
The consumer (not pro) version of the Quadrotor can carry a camera and with full power your battery isn't going to last more than 15 minutes, 30 tops.
You would agree that a 1/4 scale model with a big engine, a big tank, and an autopilot with payload release is much more dangerous, right?
Okay, you can place a small vile of sarin in the Draganfly quadrotor and fly it to your target and make a micro-release mechanism, but you could do far worse things with other platforms. If someone saw you fly a quadrotor over an army base, you'd be nabbed in seconds. With a 1/4 scale, you can fly 10-20 miles (or even more) away with a flightplan and GPS.
"Are you asking a question, or what? They have shown several on the discovery channels, and in fact I have seen,built, and flown a few (not necessarily that advanced) myself. "
I am asking a question about GPS guided flyers. Since I have never heard of one or seen one perhaps you can tell me about it. Which ones have you built? Do they have any other sensors on board? How much do they cost? I have physically seen a micro plane with piezo actuated control surfaces. It has an "optic flow" sensor (a small CCD that provides a direction vector) and it is very cool. I don't see these as being any sort of threat right now other than hitting people at 10 MPH.
>After reading those last few posts, I have to admit that I'm a little confused. You seem to have changed your views on what the "guidelines"(rules) should be, And in >fact contridicted several earlier statements. Where exactly did those "guidelines" originate? Are they rules that are imposed by some institution, or are they >suggestions that you came up with?
I don't believe I have contradicted earlier statements. I believe the goal is to minimize regulation by hashing out some rules of thumb that are reasonable in order to make sure UAV experiments are carried out in a safe manner without making people nervous but also providing UAV hobbyists latitude to still do cool things.
What do you think are reasonable rules of thumb for carrying out successful UAV experiments without getting into trouble? What kind of cool things would you do with a UAV? There are many cool things to do-- some things less worrysome than others 
Loggiedog
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