Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans?  
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Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/1/2004 12:49:46 AM   
DaddySam


 

Posts: 1027
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi
I'm brainstorming my next project, and although I have the Pica 1/5 spit I'd like to build something closer to scale, and I'd really prefer an earlier mark. I see that Brian Taylor has a set of plans for a 69" Mk 1A, which I was thinking about scaling up to an 88" wing span. I figured I could use a canopy from a kit maker, or frame my own, and just skin the whole fuse with balsa and then make fiberglass access panels to get to the engine. Can any of you scale guys out there give me some advice or alert me to any pitfalls this project screams out at you?
Thanks in advance,
Sam
       Post #: 1

RE: Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/1/2004 9:24:59 AM   
Stumps



Posts: 24
Joined: 11/25/2002
From: DoverKent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Just a thought, BT also does a Mk9 version at 83 inches, why not use this plan as a starting point. From memory, there's not that much of a difference in the basic airframe apart from the length of cowl, tail feathers etc. Also, increasing this one to 88 inches would have its advantages over the 69 inch version.

Hope this is of some help, but what ever you decide, hope it goes well and have fun ~ It a great aeroplane.

Regards
Stumps

(in reply to DaddySam)
       Post #: 2

RE: Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/1/2004 1:19:31 PM   
SpitfireMKI



Posts: 1463
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: RAF Turnhouse 603 Squadron, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Go to this site: http://www.vicrc.com/product_spitfire.htm

Vic makes all the items to create a MkI. I'm working with him on getting one now, can't wait !

S1

_____________________________

"What madness ? What secrets ? We Plunder,
All failure, We learn from.... Discovery"

(in reply to Stumps)
       Post #: 3

RE: Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/1/2004 7:56:46 PM   
LA7flier



Posts: 375
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: pleasanton, CA,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySam

Hi
I'm brainstorming my next project, and although I have the Pica 1/5 spit I'd like to build something closer to scale, and I'd really prefer an earlier mark. I see that Brian Taylor has a set of plans for a 69" Mk 1A, which I was thinking about scaling up to an 88" wing span. I figured I could use a canopy from a kit maker, or frame my own, and just skin the whole fuse with balsa and then make fiberglass access panels to get to the engine. Can any of you scale guys out there give me some advice or alert me to any pitfalls this project screams out at you?
Thanks in advance,
Sam


Daddy
I think short of drawing your own plans, this is the single best scale Spit out there. Blowing the plans up to 1/5 scale would yield a near perfect Spitfire. The engine compartment would need to be made from a balsa plug but you could make a scale fiberglass engine cowling that drops away revealing the entire engine along the scale panel lines. You would also need to make a canopy plug. The main wheel location on the BT Spit is correct unlike almost all other kits which have it shifted too far back. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether Taylor correctly captures the inverted gull wing. I've built 2 Pica 1/5 Spits and fixed both to be correct scale but it was alot of work. I'm now completing a completely scratched Spitfire Mk I for the Masters at Castle, Calif next year powered with a 3W-50 gasser and Yellow retracts with a Sierra Precision tailwheel. The Mk 9 is a differnt plane firewall forward from the Mk 1 and utilizes symetrical underwing scoops and a deeper, more forward carb intake. The canopy is also different. Like all Spits, it will have a tendancy to nose over so three-point landings are highly recommended...even the full size Spits nose over if the pilot gets careless.

(in reply to DaddySam)
       Post #: 4

RE: Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/1/2004 9:14:40 PM   
carlbecker



Posts: 1661
Joined: 7/29/2002
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Dave Platt has a short kit at 88". I don't know how hard it would be to change to a mkI.

(in reply to LA7flier)
       Post #: 5

RE: Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/1/2004 11:10:17 PM   
SpitfireMKI



Posts: 1463
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: RAF Turnhouse 603 Squadron, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Platts is a MkXII, that would be a lot of nose surgery and tail work. If I'm not mistaken it's a clipped wing too.

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All failure, We learn from.... Discovery"

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       Post #: 6

RE: Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/2/2004 1:03:22 AM   
Chad Veich



Posts: 2850
Joined: 12/13/2001
From: Litchfield Park, AZ, USA
Status: online 		Bob Holman used to offer the plans and a cowling for Taylor's MkI enlarged to 83 inches, don't know if he still has it. Actually, with the availability of the parts from Vic Catalasan at www.vicrc.com it really is a moot point anyway. I'm sure Vic would sell you just a cowl for the short nose Spits if you wanted to build a wood fuse but I can vouch for the quality of the entire package if you like the glass fuse. I have one each from Vic, MkVIII/MkIX and MkI-V. Brian Taylor's plans, and Vic's parts, have the correct shape to the underside of the wing in the area of the flaps for those who demand accuracy. Brian Taylor is generally considered the last word when it comes to accurate Spitfire plans. If you must have a true 1/5 scale airplane the Platt plans/parts may not be a bad place to start. The MkXII was a development of the MkV and has the same horizontal stab/elevator arrangement as well as the assymetrical underwing radiator arrangement of the MkI-V Spitfires. The vertical fin would need to be changed as well as everything forward of the (scale) firewall. I think DB Sport and Scale in the UK also offer a MkV kit at 88 inches which is pretty accurate. Good luck, Chad Veich.

(in reply to SpitfireMKI)
       Post #: 7

RE: Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/2/2004 2:15:48 AM   
BobH


 

Posts: 4420
Joined: 4/1/2003
From: Springfield, VA,
Status: offline 		Chad, fyi. I just bought some plans from Bob Holman at toledo for the BT 83" spit..

(in reply to Chad Veich)
       Post #: 8

RE: Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/2/2004 2:14:28 PM   
Moggy


 

Posts: 116
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Waterbury, CT, USA
Status: offline 		If I understand correctly, Vic has MK I glass fuse and cowel (chin, radiator etc), so all one would need to do is build the wing ? What about the canopy and retracts?

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Piece of Cake

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       Post #: 9

RE: Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/2/2004 7:03:43 PM   
cwcope


 

Posts: 24
Joined: 11/2/2004
From: , TX, USA
Status: offline 		Sam,

I would echo what some others have suggested and take a look at the parts offered by Vic. Regardless, I am very familiar with building the 83" Mk I from enlarged Taylor plans, as I was the first person to build from this enlarged plan back in 1990. I know this because I was the guy who paid Bob Holman to enlarge the Taylor Mk I up to 83" span. I arrived at 83" span by analyzing what size cowl would best fit around a Moki 1.8, and then scaling everything accordingly. I was also aware at the time that Unitracts had a set of landing gear for the DB Spitfire that would fit perfectly for the 83" Mk. I. When I built mine there were no glass parts or spinners or canopies available at all. So I fabricated my own cowl and vac-formed my own canopy, which I still have the plug for. Fortunatley, you can now get all of this stuff from Vic or Holman. My Mk. I turned out pretty good, at least in the static department. I was invited to Top Gun '96, but crashed the plane due to aileron flutter two weeks before the contest and was unable to rebuild it. I have since rebuilt it and flown it, but have always had trouble with it snapping on take off. It needed a really long take off roll and you had to hold right rudder throughout the climb-out, or it would snap. Also, it was very tricky on take off on a grass surface due to scale location of the landing gear. In rigging the ailerons, I found that it really needs about half as much down deflection as up deflection. I also found that, due the use of 4-to-6- pound contest wood for the wing ribs, the wing ended up with assymetrical wash-out, even though the jig tabs were used. I subsequently re-skinned the wing on a hard, fixed jig, so that the wing had exactly 2.5 degrees washout at the tips. Anyway, the plane looked great in the air and flew well, once it was airborne. I still have it and plan to get it back into contest shape one of these days.

Charles

(in reply to Moggy)
       Post #: 10

RE: Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/2/2004 7:32:50 PM   
DaddySam


 

Posts: 1027
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the replies so far. I'm really hoping to be able to cowl in a 3w-50i, which is where I got the idea to scale up the 69" plane, I've looked at the 83" version and it's very tempting to go with that size, except that in looking at Vic's website it appears that I'd need a shoehorn to get it to fit. I'm obviously still just brainstorming, and as I mentioned earlier, I really appreciate hearing from you guys who have been there, and done that.
Thanks again,
Sam

(in reply to cwcope)
       Post #: 11

RE: Advice on Scaling up BT Spitfire Mk 1 plans? - 11/2/2004 9:58:11 PM   
JGrc



Posts: 692
Joined: 2/24/2002
From: Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Sam,
This might sound boring but I also agree that the BT Spit is the best way to go. You will also be very pleased with the quality of Vic's glass parts. If you are close to Portland, give a call and you can see my Mk VII.
Jose G.

(in reply to DaddySam)
       Post #: 12

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