RE: Membership decline???

RE: Membership decline???
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

1/6 Scale Fei Bao Mirage 2000 - ARF
Seller: rcjetmodels
Details: $2,300.00 | 11/29/2008 | Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> AMA Discussions >> RE: Membership decline???

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/22/2004 2:08:07 PM

CFRACR

Posts: 180
Joined: 10/30/2004
From: SARASOTA, FL, USA
Status: offline

ARF's make life easy for those of us that don't have time to scratch build any longer. The time that it takes to put one together & make the needed mods, is far less investment compared to kit building. But I will say that building a kit gives you the knowledge that you would need later to be able to repair that ARF in the event of a crash. So regarding what was said before, there are i'm sure a lot of folks that buy a ARF because the LHS told them to. Crash it, & never fly again! Some will be able to afford another ARF and may eventually get hooked up with a club or instructor and learn to fly.

ARF's can make up for time, but don't contribute to the knowlege of your craft.

I personally like them, because if I auger one in, I don't feel so bad.

< Message edited by CFRACR -- 11/22/2004 2:23:43 PM >

(in reply to scrcc_guy)

Post #: 51

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/22/2004 2:12:32 PM

CFRACR

Posts: 180
Joined: 10/30/2004
From: SARASOTA, FL, USA
Status: offline

IMPO, I see AMA membership mostly acquired to be able to fly at a club now a days. (They require it) That is the majority of the AMA's foothold. (At least for now)

With clubs losing their fields, & the AMA not lending a hand to either help save the field, or help the club find another location, can be seen as the AMA cutting their own throat. The dedicated flyers will just find a alternative flying site & may let their AMA membership end. Thus not needing it to fly @ a club location any longer. There are some that will keep the membership to receive the magazine, or support the hobby. But, I know of many flyers locally that fell into this bracket. Lost their field & found another site somewhere, & over time have run into one another @ the LHS's ect., & are now getting together @ one location for "outlaw flying." None of which renewed their membership.

(in reply to scrcc_guy)

Post #: 52

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/22/2004 6:56:59 PM

yard-dart

Posts: 927
Joined: 3/6/2002
From: West Monroe, LA, USA
Status: offline

Here's my thoughts.

I am currently a member and president of one club, and the founder of my own private flying site. At the public club, we are having a very hard time of keeping the club alive. We have recently rearranged our field. At one time, we flew from an ashpalt runway. Unfortunately, there were some safety issues involving a nearby road, so we had to shut down that runway and build a grass one. That right there pissed many people off. They felt that if they didn't have asphalt to fly from, they would just quit. There went about 10 of our 60 members.

Around a month or two ago, we finally got our field rearranged. We used up all of our funds doing so. We fell short of getting everything completed because a shortage of funds. The main thing that didn't get completely finished was the runway. It is usable, but it is very rough. I personally won't fly on it until it is in much better shape, but I do have an alternate place to fly. Since we felt that some more work needed to be done to the facility, things that would cost a good bit of money, we felt that there needed to be a dues increase to get the extra money. We held a meeting that included a vote for a dues increase. It was voted in, but now there is much talk that the majority of the remainder of the club will not be rejoining at the first of the year. They didn't show up to vote, but they want to complain about the increase in dues. So, I see our club dwindling down from around 60 members to about 20. You can bet that those people will not need to rejoin the AMA because they now have no place to fly.

Another issue is training. I have been in this hobby going on five years now. I have trained many people in this time. I now have a young one to see after, so I don't have the free time I once had. To tell you the hosest truth, I am about the only one who ever did the training of newcomers. I would go out every evening of the week to train newbies. There were a couple of guys that would help on the weekends, when they came to the field to fly, but that was a rarity. Anyway, now we don't have anyone to train people. There are some that are capable, but don't feel confident enough to do so. You can't expect people to join a club when there's nobody to train them to fly. This goes for the AMA also.

So, to sum it up, there are around 40 people solely from my club that probably won't be rejoining the AMA this next year.

(in reply to CFRACR)

Post #: 53

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/22/2004 9:41:29 PM

Jim Branaum

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline

CFRACR,

I am not sure I disagree with much of what you said. However, we cannot expect the AMA to "help save the field, or help the club find another location" unless we can tell them what that means. In other words, EXACTLY what would you have the AMA do to prevent the loss of a flying field? Consider all the implications of that question before we jump on the AMA for failure.

Let us put the 'finding an new field' on the parking lot for now and deal with the other part first. I will start an analysis of why club fields are lost. That way we have points to discuss.

Club fields are lost due to noise complaints. Requiring ALL IC engines to have mufflers is one step. The problem with that is that the C/L crowd has historically insisted on the RIGHT to run 'open face' which is the loudest and easiest to verify as a source of noise complaints. Now the problem moves into a 'rights' arena. Do the C/L folks get more rights than the rest of us by being able to run with no noise considerations? The C/L crowd will point out that the noise complaints come from OUTSIDE the flying site and C/L activities are contained INSIDE and down low and noise complaints come from the property line. This is the tool that has been used in the past to prevent effective noise containment from being a general thing rather than a specific issue for a specific class of flyer. The problem is it becomes a general flyer problem when it costs us fields because quiter equipment is much more expensive.

In MY OPINION the AMA COULD and SHOULD take a leadership position and simply require that ALL internal combustion engines used by all classes of flyer have factory provided mufflers. I am well known for being politically incorrect.

Club fields are lost because the club does not own the field and the owner sells it for development. I am treasurer of a club that looses its original field to this cause on 30 November. We saw this coming over 20 years ago and have made preparations that happen to include a new field that should come on line by Christmas. I cannot speak for you and others, but I don't feel like paying extra 'taxes' in the form of additional dues to buy flying fields in, say, The Peoples Republik of Kalifornia. The ancillary costs are way too high.

Club fields are lost because of adjoining development. There are only 2 answers for this I know of. One is to own a full square mile so the overfly is always over owned land. The second answer is to get further from town. That second answer works in many, buy not all, locations.

Other than purely stupid reasons, I am at a loss as to other reasons for a club to loose a flying field.

Other than a SERIOUS level handed approach (EXACT same restrictions to ALL) to NOISE by the AMA at ALL sanctioned events, there is little hope that the noise issues can be resolved. The engine manufactures CAN (and in at least 1 case I am aware of do) make better mufflers, but until they are required to compete they will not be made.

As for the AMA buying flying fields (in ANY location INCLUDING THE REGIONAL DISASTER suggested by some EC candidates) I am convinced that will just become another way for someone to build an empire on my $. Muncie seems to already a big black hole in our financial statement that has caused at least THREE dues increases and more flying fields in more locations seems to mean more black holes to raise dues.

Any one got any better ideas?

As for the training issue yard-dart mentioned, that is an ongoing nightmare. Newbies expect us to provide training when and where THEY demand rather than accept the limitations of doing it when WE desire to. Fliers1 and I have beat this up over the years and he has what appears to be an effective approach to training. However his approach has NOTHING to do with the AMA. I have begun to wonder if training and the AMA need to be separated.

_____________________________

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to CFRACR)

Post #: 54

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/22/2004 9:51:02 PM

Jim Messer

Posts: 1165
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Sebring, FL, USA
Status: offline

Jim:

Just as a matter of interest, when the STARS club in WNY decided to purchase property to make a flying field, the first thing that they did was to get the property rezoned specifically for flying model airplanes. That way, if anybody moves in later and complains, they have no leg to stand on.

_____________________________

Jim Messer

(in reply to Jim Branaum)

Post #: 55

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/22/2004 9:53:52 PM

FLYBOY

Posts: 8692
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Missoula, MT, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hossfly

That leaves 80-85% of the membership basically stating that they are happy with how AMA functions. Now, with an 80% majority of the membership approving AMA, just why would the Power-Structure have any reason to NOT continue to perform as they do?

Instead of assuming that the other 80% are happy, how about considering the fact that that 80% is just there for the insurance, and doesn't give a rip about anything else AMA does. Its entirely possible. Most people are not vocal about anything. They don't want to cause waves. I would be more apt to bet that the 80% you speak of don't like what ama does, but don't care enough to say anything.

Just another way to look at it, but if they don't come forward, why would anyone think they are not happy. I know most around here don't like what the AMA does, but none of them are going to do anything about it because it just doesn't matter that much to them. I would guess that is the case with at least half of that 80%.

_____________________________

Fly it till the wings come off.

(in reply to Hossfly)

Post #: 56

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/22/2004 11:10:40 PM

Live Wire

Posts: 3850
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Sterling , CO, USA
Status: offline

It is interesting how may people pay their due out of habit, Wife just asked if I wanted to send in dues since I am haveing problems with the club. Well I guess!!! It gets to be to bad when it is just routine and if you want to fly. More like black mail. A lot of people come forward but are put down and are made to look like fools. AMA is hung over to many peoples head to make them do or be what they want. Puppet's. Then there are people that just don't no any better and care less!

_____________________________

Larry K AMA 36417
WACO Brotherhood #34

(in reply to FLYBOY)

Post #: 57

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/23/2004 3:09:46 AM

bobfox

Posts: 37
Joined: 12/16/2002
From: Jesup, GA, USA
Status: offline

As a Sunday flier, I'll toss in my thoughts.

If it weren't for insurance coverage (Percieved or real value), most of the people I fly with would not join AMA. The magazine has relatively little value (Too much of a diary rather than a real mag) and the national site at Muncie is worthless as a real aid in obtaining new members. Support for flying sites is minimal help.

On Muncie, Ol' Sam Walton wasn't dumb enough to put up a 2 gizallion square foot store in someplace like Muncie, Ind and expect the hordes and masses to storm into Muncie to spend their money there. He knew that to appeal to the masses, you have to be where the masses are. How dumb can we be to expect that a national site like Muncie can attract modelers from someplace like Jesup GA. Just isn't going to happen! And there are thousands of Jesup's and only one Muncie!

I honestly believe that most members want only insurance or their club requires it. If AMA quit being an insurance company, it would quit being. I think that's a shame because there is a real need to support the hobby. The leadership is disconnected from that need, most members really don't care if it gets done, so the apathy allows strategies like Muncie to happen.

_____________________________

Semper ubi, sub ubi

(in reply to Live Wire)

Post #: 58

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/23/2004 6:01:53 AM

Jim Branaum

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline

Jim Messer, I hate being boxed into becoming a wet blanket! There is a case before the Supreme Court right now that may have impact on the stability of that ownership and zoning. IIRC it involves Wal-Mart. Now there is a pair of really scary thoughts! However, it is hard to expect the AMA to file amicus curiae.

_____________________________

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to Jim Messer)

Post #: 59

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/23/2004 2:04:29 PM

CFRACR

Posts: 180
Joined: 10/30/2004
From: SARASOTA, FL, USA
Status: offline

Well its no secret that the majority of AMA members are so for the insurance. Being that their possible home owner insurance will not cover or has to high of a deductible compared to the AMA. The vast of AMA members are so because its Required to fly at most fields.
The few that are members just to support the hobby will fade with time I feel. The few that do are most likely older members that have been in the hobby a long time, & joined the AMA many years ago when it was not the political monster that it is now.

As for what you said before Jim regarding my comments on the AMA getting involved in our fields & locations.

Well in most cases I would say that nothing can stop the loss of a field. But there may be a few cases where a little interaction from the AMA may have some impact. EXAMPLE: Maybe a field is leased & they for some reason fall behind, the landlord is starting the process to evict. MAYBE,
the AMA could have some sort of program that they could bring the tennant up to date with the landlord & therefor save the field.

Also with lots of fly sites being lost to development in one way or another, good fly sites are becoming more and more rare. I know of a few instances in my state where the county & swiftmud gave something like a 50year lease to a club. With the only restriction being that overfill tanks were to be used to minimize fuel leakage. Also that a portion of the land must be maintained by the club. One that comes to mind was a field that had a large portion of land to the south that needed to be mowed down monthly for wildlife. So the club acquired a bush hog & members took turns clearing that portion of land to satisfy the lease agreement.

I don't think that it would be a far leap for the AMA to get more involved & work with organizations like swiftmud & parks & req. to develop a relationship that may make it a easier process to find a field within a county when needed.

Just my nickel

(in reply to Jim Branaum)

Post #: 60

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/23/2004 4:17:30 PM

Jim Branaum

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline

CFRACR,

We are not in total disagreement, but there are some spots where we differ.

Most landlords are reasonable and the rents I am aware of that clubs pay are not THAT unreasonable. So, I am not sure how much in arrears the AMA should stand good for. I guess we could develop that but how would we make it equal across the nation? I have heard of a club paying $300 EVERY MONTH for a flying field and I am treasurer of one paying exactly that much every YEAR. Guess how much slack our landlord would cut us? Is it fair that *I* am paying taxes, er dues to help the folks paying 10 times more than I? How do we prevent sweetheart deals that just scam $?

I think the LOCAL members must spark plug ANY efforts to get a local field because I don't want to have to pay for it with increased taxes, er dues. That does not mean the AMA should not help rather the AMA should lend a hand after the local club has started the activity.

I agree with you, I don't think it would be a far leap but we have to present an effective way to make that leap.

Getting the AMA more involved with local governmental agencies is a good goal, but so far nobody has suggested how. Well, the answer is really much more simple than many believe but kind of expensive on the short term. If the AMA were to buy and staff a booth at every less than federal level governmental convention/conference our 'visibility' would grow to large size. That might make our land use easier to sell and surely more recognized. This is expensive because booth space at those events is not cheap. Hotels and per diem costs are not cheap at those events and we cannot send some low level staffer but we MUST send ED, EVP, and Presidential level folks to represent us. I don't think any of those folks currently has planned that time to invest for us, so the real cost is very high for the short term but speaks to the long term goals of the AMA as we know it.

_____________________________

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to CFRACR)

Post #: 61

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/23/2004 5:57:52 PM

fliers1

Posts: 535
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Lockport, NY, USA
Status: offline

One thing all clubs could do is aggresively invite public officials and their kids to fly on a regular basis. This could mean local government officials or higher up the political ladder.

See what two clubs and a hobbyshop owner are doing to help secure flying sites. See page 155 (Fly Before You Buy) on Joe Beshar's Flying Site Assistance column of the December 2005 issue of Model Aviation. It definitely works.

Take care,
CCR
AMA#120734

< Message edited by fliers1 -- 11/23/2004 6:00:05 PM >

(in reply to Jim Branaum)

Post #: 62

RE: Membership decline??? - 11/23/2004 7:49:30 PM

abel_pranger

Posts: 2373
Joined: 5/7/2003
From: St Augustine, FL,
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fliers1

One thing all clubs could do is aggresively invite public officials and their kids to fly on a regular basis. This c