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YW24 engine - 11/23/2004 2:41 AM   
ukrconsul


 

Posts: 243
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Joined: 3/13/2003
Last Login: 6/22/2006
From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I would like to post here some facts regarding my experience with YW engine. Probably it will make others to be a little more cautious buying it.

On 1-st of October 2004 I purchased the engine YW-24V4. Since then I have nothing but trouble with the engine. Finally after two days of hard time spent with it at the field trying to make it run right intake cracked.
I returned it to the LHS and they sent it for warranty repair to Korea.

I bought the engine on 1 October 2004 and it was sent to Korea on 11 October 2004. Since then - no reply from Korea at all.

There are below my remarks about this engine YW-24V4 from my letter to the manufacturer of YW engines:

“
1. Engine is impossible to start by hand.
2. Engine occasionally (on fifth approach) starts by electric starter after turning shaft continuously during at least 30 seconds and more (low end - 1.5 turn, high end – 1 turn). After slight adjustments on low end (1 and 3/8) engine is impossible to start even by electric starter.
3. Engine has 2 hours of running time on the ground. JR 1100 mah battery was used connected directly to the ignition. Fully charged battery (1100mah) was empty after 1 hour of running time – it is very strange. I didn’t have an opportunity to repeat this figure.
4. After 2 hours of running time (not more than 5000 RPM with 16x8 MA prop) engine stopped running. I found that carburetor does not suck air and after observation found that intake port cracked. I would like to bring to you attention the next matter – I didn’t touch the carburetors screws since I bought the engine. After checking the engine I’ve also found that all other screws on the engine are so tight that it is almost impossible to unscrew them out.
5. It is obvious, that engine has ignition problems. Another explanation of its behavior could be fraction in the intake due to casting defects, which developed further under vibration.
6. Muffler is made of soft material that appears to be pure aluminum. It’s deforming under slight pressure making impossible tightening mounting screws. After 20 minutes or so running time screws become loose and the muffler is almost hangs on them like a piece of tissue in the wind. Actually there is no way to solve this problem other then purchasing another aftermarket muffler.
I am greatly disappointed with this engine and would like to tell that it does meet none of my expectations.
I would like to return it for full refund.

“


I would not like to make any statements on the YW engines – further words are not necessary.
Just be aware.

Igor.

P.S. Here below some nice photos of my engine.

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RE: YW24 engine - 11/23/2004 2:50 AM   
ukrconsul


 

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From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		And some more muffler photos

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RE: YW24 engine - 11/23/2004 4:51 AM   
gunny11



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From: babylon, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Well, so much for that idea.

Thanks

Gunny

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RE: YW24 engine - 11/23/2004 5:50 PM   
bruski


 

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From: Pryor, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Hi, I'm really sorry you have had such an experience with this engine! I have worked and modified some of these for hi-power applications and find them to be a very well built unit! These are pretty new, in terms of the manufacturer, and I did find some short comings that I reported to them and they were very interested in making changes to make thier products top of the line, so I doubt seriously that you are not being taken care of , but be aware of the length of time it takes to get any info or anything out of the orient! It is excessive! Your pictures are great , but reviewing them myself, I can see where the mfg. would be suspect of how that happened? That is a pretty stout piece of casting, and why, if there was a flaw in the casting , did the plastic carb adapter(which is somewhat flexible) break also? It looks very much like a trauma(blow) occured at that rt. hand corner, shearing that whole section off! That is a lot of material there, bolted together with the carburetor, to just fall off! I'm not sticking up for the manufacturer, only pointing that what you suggest is difficult to visualize!
I agree with you on some of your issues, ie; hard starting, carb has to be set 'just right', and you have to flood it well , and make sure you have a 'hot' battery on the ignition! The rings have a 'breakin coating' that is very hard, and breaks in slowly. If you sand off the coating with some 320 paper carefully, it will breakin quicker! Once the rings are seated, compression is better , and it starts much quicker! I still use a starter though, my arthritis hurts too much when I 'flip' it by hand!
I wouldn't condemn this product though! This is a very well built engine, with good materials, and designed stout enough to take some abuse! I have run modified engines at over 11,000 rpms for hours, and when disassembled showed no wear! Good luck, I hope it works out for you!
bruski

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RE: YW24 engine - 11/24/2004 3:38 AM   
ukrconsul


 

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From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		##### carb adapter(which is somewhat flexible)

Car adapter is absolutely non flexible, it is like organic glass (plexiglas).
The idea with ring sanding will void the warranty as they prohibit disassembling the engine in any way.

##### It looks very much like a trauma(blow) occured at that rt. hand corner, shearing that whole section off!

It looks definitely like I did hit it with a hammer and a huge amount of force - but in reality it broke on the ground while engine running. I didn't believe my eyes actually.

###### I agree with you on some of your issues, ie; hard starting, carb has to be set 'just right', and you have to flood it well , and make sure you have a 'hot' battery on the ignition!

What do you mean by flooding well? Is gas dropping from the stack enough? I've done that, didn't help.
What do you mean by hot battery? Is 1100 mah 4.8V Jr pack enough?

What do you mean by ring coating? Why does someone will do that coating on a ring? It is ridicules.

###### I wouldn't condemn this product though! This is a very well built engine, with good materials, and designed stout enough to take some abuse!

I can't agree with you, my experience shows me no good materials (that soft muffler - good materials? How do you deal with muffler issue?) in this engine. It is not designed to take abuse it is rather fragile.

The design itself is not that much difference from any other gas engine (Zenoah, Brisson) and it isn't well build as far as it has numerous issues with ignitions, mufflers e.t.a. around the world.

I can't agree with idea, that i need to modify the 24cc gas engine that cost $500. I want it to run out of the box (like Zenoah or MVVS do for much less money).

So far YW engines are far far away from the top of the line, it isn't even close.

I know about the orient kind of things, I work in Singapore by now, it is not too far from Korea. So why I think that they have to move some of their lower body parts quicker a little bit.

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< Message edited by ukrconsul -- 11/24/2004 4:15 AM >

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RE: YW24 engine - 12/2/2004 1:59 PM   
YWUSA


 

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From: , FL, USA
Status: offline 		Sir,

We are North American distributor of YW Engines (Mexico, United States, and Canada). You never asked "us" for help. What is the serial number of your engine? We are here to help - but frankly, your engine appears to have suffered crash damage and perhaps this is the reason your dealer was not helpful. Readers may be interested in knowing every single hand-assembled YW Engine is test run at the factory . . . but only God is perfect so we will attempt to resolve this problem (even if we did not sell you your engine) and presuming you are not attempting to strong-arm us into a repair of a crash damaged engine with this public posting.

We need you to return the complete engine to us - including the carburetor, bolts, gaskets (things you did not photograph) as an aid to us in evaluating whether this engine was damaged in a crash. Frankly, it is incredible that a large casting could break this way. We have been modelers all our lives and have never seen such a failure in any engine regardless of brand! Cursory examination of your photographs appear to indicate the bolts threads are damaged (such as when pulled free via strong force, i.e. a crash), and we also see the intake manifold is broken as well (again indicative of crash damage) but we nonetheless will refrain from passing judgment until we see the engine's failure area under a microscope. Granted, it's unlikely such a poor quality casting could make it into the hands of a modeler (it's improbable), but not an impossibility, and we will not sidestep responsibility if we own this problem!

We do, however, reserve our right to respond publicly here on RCU with our findings regardless of whether a poor quality casting somehow made it through both quality conrtrol AND the factory engine test running process, or whether it turns out you are trying to blackmail us into resolving a crash damage issue. RCU readers will know the truth!

YWUSA
www.ywengines.com

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RE: YW24 engine - 12/3/2004 2:57 AM   
ukrconsul


 

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From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		To YW USA.

Dear Sir/Madam,

This Section is for review, not for arguing. I have had my experience with YW24 engine and I have posted it for the benefits of others.

I wold like to inform you that this issue has nothing to do with YW USA and I have no claims to YW USA.

This is international forum and the world of INTERNET is not limited to the USA borders only.

I fully understand your intentions to defend the reputation of this brand as it is related to your business, but I would like to ask you do not express what "appears" to you as it is almost the same as accusing me in lying as I have described clearly the circumstances under which this sh.... has happened.

For your information, the engine has been sent to Korea almost two months ago. No reply yet.

Best wishes.

P.S. Bolts are not damaged, they are hardened steel, it is impossible. They just covered with remains of a thread locker.
I am 30 years in the hobby (since I was 6). I have never seen in my life this happened to any engine even in a crush.

< Message edited by ukrconsul -- 12/3/2004 4:48 AM >

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RE: YW24 engine - 12/11/2004 6:41 PM   
Al Magaloff


 

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From: rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Why would you send it to Korea, when there is a North American distributor for YW motors? I would also find another Hobby Shop to do business with.

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/4/2005 8:51 AM   
ukrconsul


 

Posts: 243
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From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		OK, this is the end of the story.

After 3 months of waiting time (no single reply from YW Korea, remanding LHS about the engine’s fate) I’ve got bothered enough. I warned LHS that I will submit this issue to the Small Claims Tribunal and by magic got my money back at the same day. As an excuse for this sh….. that happened to me I was told that YW Korea all this time had being developing a new more powerful engine (25% more) so why they didn’t have time or reason to look trough my engine (YW24) that was sent to them three month ago for warranty or evaluation. As for me – absolutely beautiful explanation (the orient style) for the people who does not want to admit their faults.


So it is up to you guys if you want to experiment with this company.
It’s for your own risk.

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Igor Borysenko
Kiev_Ottawa_Singapore

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/5/2005 3:57 AM   
j39j54


 

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Last Login: 7/29/2009
From: Manchester, NH, USA
Status: offline 		I agree with ukrconsul, I am from Taiwan.
I sent my yw24 v4 back to Korea 6 months ago (mid. of July, 2004) I get no reply, even an email .Like nothing happen.
Here is my story, I bought engine in ’04 May. Anything was ok until fourth took off, engine stopped suddenly. The emergency landing took my landing gear away. Ignition failure, Got a new ignition from warranty. I still felt comfortable with this engine. In a week, it was failed again and caused my plane crash. The engine was damaged also.
In the chart room internet, all the yw 24 v4 owners in Taiwan are facing the same ignition problem. I don’t trust the engine any more. Just want my money back.

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/5/2005 3:23 PM   
Team YW


 

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From: , FL, USA
Status: offline 		Sir,

We in the USA (www.ywengines.com) are very sorry for your experience. We were fortunate because we discovered ignition problem during May 2004. We learned the issue was with the SyncroSpark - a temperature related failure of the module which retards the spark and permits easy hand starting. As a result, we immediately placed hold on deliveries and sent 'all' ignition modules out for replacement of this electronic part. Within 10 days we had them back. Because of batch proccess used in manufacture, it was relativelty easy to identify units with the problem. Most fortunate, only one customer suffered problems with ignition (and as luck would have it, he did not have a problem in the air and thus, there was no damage to his aircraft - though he was very disappointed to be out of action for nearly three weeks).

A little known fact is YW ignition share the same design as CH Electronics (but modern surface mount components instead of discrete components). We of course notified Korea and they immediately inspected their stock. Because of business relationship with CH, they very kindly were able to quickly correct problem for us. An ignition is a complex piece of equipment - more complex than many would believe, and components from various parts of the world are used to manufacture the units. As chance would have it, the SyncroSpark component is actually manufactured by a USA company in Missouri. Not surprisingly, many, many ignitions (from various engine companies) use the same SyncroSpark, so we were not only engine manufacturer affected by this problem.

We realize however, that knowledge of the internal difficulties are of little consolation for you, and once again, we are very sorry for your experience. We in the USA do not presently have to deal with this experience because we caught the problem early (before it affected many customers). Furthermore, as the North American distributor, we are the first responder for USA hobby dealers (and end user customers) and hence, customers do not typically have to deal with Korea (as it appears smaller operations in Taiwan do). What's more, we have a good inventory of replacement parts on hand and can usually correct any difficulty quickly.

As always, we are here to serve you.

Team YW
www.ywengines.com
407-302-3361

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/6/2005 10:05 AM   
ukrconsul


 

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From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I have nothing bad to tell about YW USA, it was a pleasure to talk to you and I appreciate you intention to help me very much. But……. as we can see now you were well aware about ignition issue for the last nine months but you have never mentioned that before despite your active participation in this forum.

Unfortunately you still have not admitted another problems with the engines, I have mentioned that there are three of them. While cast defects are rare problem, you can tell at least what other people – happy owners have to do with loose mufflers, as a know, it is a common issue.

Actually I have contributed enough to the YW and I don’t want to continue to be a test pilot for YW Engine Co.

I am done already with them. Forever.




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Kiev_Ottawa_Singapore

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/6/2005 11:04 PM   
Team YW


 

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From: , FL, USA
Status: offline 		Igor,

You can make snide remarks about an ignition issue - or even invent a cover up - but the fact is anything we offer to do on for you is from the kindness of our American hearts because you didn't buy from us and we don't owe you jack!

You started this thread after buying your engine in Singapore - and were claiming the jug broke when you tightened the muffler. I've seen the pictures of your engine and I say it looks like crash damage to me. Nothing you've said, nor anything I've ever experienced with Korea's honorable YW Engine leads me to believe they would leave you hanging in the breeze . . . and all business know of the power of the Internet to spread information. That the Singapore dealer refunded your money under threat is, I suspect, probably indicative of them not wanting to bother with you (more than anything else). Frankly, I don't believe you anymore than I suspect the hobby dealer over there believed you. Want to keep your muffler tight, read the manual - you can download it from our www.ywengines.com website.

As for the fellow in Taiwan, I really feel for him because they've experienced a problem . . . but did you notice YW Taiwan didn't shirk responsibility? The Taiwan customer received an ignition under warranty. That it failed again is indicative of the seriousness of such a problem and we are very sorry. However, I also trust potential YW Engine customers see how North American customers have been cared for because they're not having the pain of our brothers in Taiwan!

Nothing on this Earth is perfect all the time, but YW USA do the right thing by our customers . . . not just because it is good business to care for customers, but because we're modelers too.

Team YW
www.ywengines.com

< Message edited by Team YW -- 1/6/2005 11:51 PM >

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/7/2005 3:34 AM   
ukrconsul


 

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From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Singapore dealer is probably in the same situation as his Taiwan colleague. He is just abandoned, I think.

Last your post was brilliant. How tightening muffler bolts can lead to a broken intake? You don’t even bother to read my posts and to look into my pictures.

Actually, you don’t even understand what I am talking about. It seems to me that you have never run the YW engines for yourself. Otherwise you have to know.


#### Want to keep your muffler tight, read the manual.

It is rude. But it indicates only that you have never read it with any degree of attention, because nothing in that manual describes it.

### Frankly, I don't believe you anymore.

I am not trying to convince you, it is not my goal. You have never answered any of my questions anyway even at your own forum other than pathetic phrases that YW are the best in the world and they have a great potential.

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Igor Borysenko
Kiev_Ottawa_Singapore

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/7/2005 4:52 AM   
DRMA


 

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From: Tapei, TAIWAN
Status: offline 		I think I have to stand out to expose the Korea YW engine's irresponsible attitude.
No matter what defect they have. The Korea guy promise DOA a new & workable CDI
to us. But the Korea guy do DISAPPEAR again when we mailed back the CDI to Korea.

The terrible gas engine is YW-24 V4 (Series # YW24-158). This is not the
single case, my clubmate bought one YW-48 lastweek (because he do
not know my terrible experiexce). Same thing happen again.... CDI Death Of Arrived.

Very fustrated and would like to expose the terrible experience to worldwild RCU readers.
Be careful & Pray to God to help you get a non-defect one when you consider YW


DRMA from Taiwan


PS. The irresponsible Korea Owner's latest reply on Sep 2004.

==================================================
From: "Yongwan Choi" <cyw@ywengine.com>
Subject: Re: Are you still in business???.... 8th

Dear. C.H.Ma,

I got your email and I understand fully your situation.
I am very sorry for late answer.

If you send your damaged ignition for me, I will sent new one to you.
I made sure the defict of ignition part on my late products.
I think your ignition is one of them.
I am very sorry for causing inconvenience to you.

And I'd like to know your address and telephone number.
they are needed for me to sent new ignition to you.

Best Regards
===================================================

< Message edited by DRMA -- 1/8/2005 3:42 PM >

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/7/2005 3:24 PM   
j39j54


 

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From: Manchester, NH, USA
Status: offline 		TEAM YW,

Thanks for your kindly reply. Let me got the whole picture.
I am glad to hear you fixed the problem immediately.

I don’t know why YW Korea didn’t inform distributors to stop delivering and selling the engine until the problem be solved.
Look at us. One thing can do is wait & wait.
I will contact YW Korea directly and find out what happen to my engine.

Again thank you.

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/7/2005 4:19 PM   
Team YW


 

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From: , FL, USA
Status: offline 		Gentlemen,

To begin, let me apologize to Igor. I am sorry you interpret us as rude. In any case, last paragraph of page 4 of manual deals with muffler mounting as well a a tip regarding sealing. Please see:

http://www.ywengines.com/downloads/Manual-YW_DRAFT_1-14.pdf

We certainly wish we had received the engine from you, but we understand why you took it back to Singapore where you purchased it. If that casting cracked like you said, then you are certainly entitled to repair, or replacement, or refund - no doubt about it. However, I hope you can also understand why we look at the pictures and have doubt because it looks like crash damage to us and we feel you are trying to blackmail us into a repair. Nobody likes a stick up, and especially in America we don't like to be held up unfairly, and this has that flavor.

Igor mentions ignition failure - yes, strong possibility. However, broken casting, broken plastic manifold - this looks like crash damage - or modeler frustrated with engine which does not start or run right and hit with hammer! However, very unlikely YW Engine would not see catastrophic casting flaw even before assembly and all YW Engine are run before shipping from factory. Definitely not "spontaneous" failure . . . and not a warranty issue.

To Taiwan modelers DRMM and j39j54 . . . YW Engine is not big business like Toyota. Nobody wish to have problem with ignition, but it happened, and I am certain it is being dealt with to best of ability (YW Korea does not have very good English). I am sure Korea do its best, I am sure Taiwan dealer do his best, and I am very sure NA distributor (us) do our best. Thank you for your patience.

Previously I explain creation of YW Engine is international and multi-company effort. Critical part have failure, entire system fail, OK? It takes time to correct problem. Reason North American distributor not have problem is we discover early (first one?) and report problem "and" we (in USA) have relationship with another company which permit us to resolve problem quickly to benefit of customers. But nobody in YW system is functioning slow, i.e. dragging feet, everybody is doing their best.

To condem entire YW Engine because of failure of small electronic part manufactured in another country is customer's privilege. Again, we appreciate your patience.

Team YW
www.ywengines.com

< Message edited by Team YW -- 1/7/2005 4:27 PM >

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/8/2005 6:07 AM   
ukrconsul


 

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From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Keep trying turning things upside down.

Plane with not working ignition can’t fly and obviously can’t crush.

I think people have gotten the picture already and there is no need for further discussion.

_____________________________

Igor Borysenko
Kiev_Ottawa_Singapore

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/9/2005 11:56 PM   
TrevofKal


 

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From: kalgoorlie, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I think that it is a casting problem in that the crystalline structure of the metal changes from one side of the break to the other. This indicates that the casting hasn't cooled correctly. There is also a lot of porosity on the upper end of the break near where the top bolt hole is making that area particularly weak.
I also think that being arguementitive when asking for waranty isn't a good way to conduct yourself particularly if you want action. The US YW dealer was trying to offer everything he could ( more than required for an outside US purchase) but it seemed like Igor just wanted to rubbish them.

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/10/2005 1:01 AM   
ukrconsul


 

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From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Thanks. I didn't not mean any harm to US distributor and I have told already a number of times that I appreciate his intentions to help me.

I was describing my problems with YW Engine Co and not with US distributor, but if he wants to defend this brand – it’s up to him. He has some grounds to do so, it is his business. It is not actually my fault that he didn’t provide reasonable explanations or helpful advice.

I didn’t decide to rubbish them, in fact I did like this engine and wanted to help also. It was a promising engine. I have started this thread after 6 weeks of waiting something from YW engine Co.

But no reply, no explanation, no apology, nothing in 3 months and I am not alone, for the engine $US 500 and up? They sell them in Europe even for more.

< Message edited by ukrconsul -- 1/10/2005 1:04 AM >

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RE: YW24 engine - 1/10/2005 1:36 AM   
DRMA


 

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Last Login: 11/3/2009
From: Tapei, TAIWAN
Status: offline 		Same as you, over six month .... no apology, nothing in (And STEAL those mailed back exchange stuff).....

US has a responsive distributor, Taiwan has good one too.
The unsual doing business is KOREA YW.

Somebody just told they are poor in English.

But they still market the serious defect YW24V4 without any call back or make up action.
Continue to declare they will have wonderful powerful products in the near future.....
The behavior is nothing different to cheat.

Do you still think Korea YW guy is only poor communication in English ??

We are extreme frustrated............

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RE: YW24 engine - 12/26/2005 10:24 PM   
cloudshaker


 

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Last Login: 6/28/2009
From: hartwell, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I feel the need to post to this forum, although time has certainly passed. I am (was ) considering purchasing a YW engine for my plane and so I did what I and others always do, did research as to the integrity of the manufacturor, and quality of the engine. I was not deterred untill I read the second post from YW USA where they told a YW customer that "they don't owe him jack " and continued by using words like strongarm, and blackmail, although This customer may not have purchased from YW USA directly, he is still a customer of YW and YW USA being an affiliate of the company owes him their respect. They went on to make insertions of opinionated conclusions based on pictures, which I think should have been kept to themself, untill an examination of the actual engine was examined. If YW USA was not able to examine the Engine themself, then their comments should have been kept to themself. I own DA< 3W, Zenoah, YS, Os engines and I can assure you that if ANYONE associated with either of these companies told me that they didn"t owe me Jack They would certainly loose my business. I think that the management of YW USA should (if they have not already) examine how they treat their customers, if they wish to suceed in business. Signed A lost AMERICAN customer, not because of product, but representation.

_____________________________

Anything Man Can Conceive, and Believe, He Can Achieve

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       Post #: 22

RE: YW24 engine - 12/29/2005 12:35 AM   
Panzlflyer



Posts: 1960
Score: 100
Joined: 2/28/2002
Last Login: 8/27/2009
From: Goldsboro, NC, USA
Status: offline 		The faulty ignition component was known almost 2yrs ago and was in many CH Ignitions with syncrospark.
Looks like bad castings to me and the argument that it is rare/unheard of is complete rubbish as it has happened to lots of other manufacturers and is pretty hard to detect.

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       Post #: 23

RE: YW24 engine - 3/3/2006 8:25 PM   
buckyb


 

Posts: 12
Score: 100
Joined: 6/2/2004
Last Login: 9/18/2009
From: Garden Ridge, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I don't normally chime in to these discussions but I was impressed with everyone's posts. I am thinking about these engines and I like what US Team YW has to say. I wish them luck in the marketplace as DA, BME, ZDZ and 3W are certainly the top dogs in the business. More competition just makes it better for all of us in the hobby. Bring it on. Again, good forum.

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       Post #: 24

RE: YW24 engine - 10/8/2007 6:29 PM   
BennyX


 

Posts: 19
Score: 100
Joined: 12/27/2002
Last Login: 10/16/2009
From: Bargteheide, GERMANY
Status: offline 		Hi folks,

I bought a YW in 2004 from Pichler, a german distriubutor. He sold it as "S 24". The muffler was crap. A tiny, very loud can. So I excanged it by a well-built Krumscheid-Muffler.
The enging has run a few hours and was not very strong. It is built in the Raven24 XP, a model from OK/Pilot. Very expensive and much to do to make it fly.
Now I have extreme problems. The engine doesn't run any more. Faulty ignition leads to blow out of the carburetor. I can't start the engine with electric starter.
Now YWenginges doesn't exist any more. The dealer says I can buy parts from Jamara. That is all very disappointing!

Raven 24 XP

BennyX

< Message edited by BennyX -- 10/8/2007 6:30 PM >

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       Post #: 25

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