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Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 11/30/2004 2:36:20 PM   
RhyanO



Posts: 255
Joined: 9/27/2004
From: Cross Plains, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I am interested in making a diesel head for an OS 60FP.

I would like to know if anybody has made their own blend of diesel fuel?

Just curious.

Ryan
       Post #: 1

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 11/30/2004 3:04:36 PM   
ghost123uk



Posts: 192
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Chester, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I have certainly had plenty of experience in making my own fuel for many (many !) years.
Though only for std motors like PAW's, Olly T's and ST 15's etc.
I suspect that a brew for a 10cc motor may require a slightly different mix.

Firstly you need to check that you can get IPN ( Iso Propyl Nitrate ) where you are - it is not feasable to ship this stuff from abroad and I suspect that even overland in the USA may cause problems. Originally Amyl Nitrate was used and is a little better but as far as I know this is no longer available and enquiries regarding it might cause attention from the authorities as it was also used in the production of high explosives and illegal drugs (as well as legal ones, mostly heart stimulants) - it is a quite dangerous substance in its pure form )

As a converted motor of this type is not likely to be used for racing I suspect a "mild brew" would be best suited and make for easy starting and long engine life.

The basic brew is one third each of Parafin ("lamp oil" I belive in the USA ?) DiEthyl ether (available in the UK from big chemists and scientific suppliers if you can convince them as to it's intended use - again a highly dangerous substance more below.) and Castor oil. To this is then added 2% by volume of IPN (or Amyl Nitrate)

This will run the motor fine as above but a little experimenting may be in order...

More Parafin (Lamp Oil) = more power
Less Ether = harder starting
Less Oil = more wear

Plus and minus only 1% IPN will alter the compression setting needed for smooth running and make the engine run hotter / cooler.

Be very careful with Ether as it's fumes are heavier than air and are produced proffusly from an open container.
They sink to the floor and stay there in a room, any spark will ignite them and can cause a real explosion as you get with a gas leak.

I believe in the states some folks get there Ether from truck spares depots as it is used as an assistent to starting real Diesel engines when necessary. I do not know if this stuff is as good as the "proper" grade Ether - comments anyone ?

btw the Parafin (Lamp Oil) is the bit that burns to provide the power and this is got from it's higfh calorific value.
It is an interesting subject indeed and I have greatly enjoyed playing with various wierd brews !!
I have done many experiments with similar substances with varying results, such as central heating oil, lorry Diesel fuel, and even Napthalene (mothballs to most folks !)

Nitro Benzine, Ethyl Alchohol, and even Gasoline all have effects that can be seen for better or worse depending on the use the set-up is put to.

As to the oil, much experience has lead my to stick to Castor oil as supplied by racing motorcycle shops ("Castrol" brand here in the UK) tho I believe medicinal Castor is as good tho dearer to buy.

btw - do not try to use racing motorcycle castor oil with glow engines, it does not mix with the Alchohol content at all.

_____________________________

JB in N.W. UK - (if you are into control line in my area, get in touch - we have a good scene going these days :) )

(in reply to RhyanO)
       Post #: 2

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 11/30/2004 4:00:46 PM   
Motorboy



Posts: 1629
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: Bergen, NORWAY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ghost123uk



Firstly you need to check that you can get IPN ( Iso Propyl Nitrate ) where you are - it is not feasable to ship this stuff from abroad and I suspect that even overland in the USA may cause problems. Originally Amyl Nitrate was used and is a little better but as far as I know this is no longer available and enquiries regarding it might cause attention from the authorities as it was also used in the production of high explosives and illegal drugs (as well as legal ones, mostly heart stimulants) - it is a quite dangerous substance in its pure form )



Easy to buy glassfiber hardener, it has Methylenehyleneketone peroxide (MEKP or MEK Peroxide) and works well as ignition improver (to reduce ignition lagg)..

All chemical liquids with last word Nitirite, Nitrate, Peroxide can you use as ignition improver.

Jens Eirik

(in reply to ghost123uk)
       Post #: 3

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 11/30/2004 7:33:17 PM   
knarF


 

Posts: 84
Joined: 11/28/2004
From: None, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		"Little" to comment to above posts.

As a newcomer in dieselland, Ive been through the process of getting it all together just lately.
I use MEKP (sometimes called MKEP), because its is indeed, very easy to get, and not too expensive (200cc was 9 euro).
Usually sold under a brandname, mine's called "butanox 50" (productname manufacturer)
If a shop sells paint and or epoxy's they usually have it, or can order it for you.

Most "car accesoires shops" will carry diesel ignition improver,(DII) though those are usually not 100%
nitrate or peroxide. I mixed an ounce of diesel with DII instead of MEKP, an this seems to work well too.
200CC costs app. 5 euro.

Lamp-oil is cheap. 2 euro per liter

Ether is usually harder to get but not thát hard. Stores that sell smaller bottles (for houshold use) can
usually order lager quantitys, you just have to ask. I had the luck that the shopowner flew CL-diesels in
his younger years I paid 6,- euro per liter.

I guess its all about where and what to look for. Eventually, all ingredients were available no longer than a 10 minute
walk from my house (and I live in a 35000 people town) If people ask questions about what you on earth you are going to do
with a gallon of ether or 200cc amyl nitrate, just tell them what its for. Eventually I was even able to get amyl nitrate !
(but that was after i told him where I needed it for, and only if I took my can of fuel to the shop, so the shopowner
could put it in himself. He told me that even one sniff of it will take you on a loooong flight %-)

Still, as you live in the US of A, why not order ready made diesel ?

< Message edited by knarF -- 11/30/2004 7:56:38 PM >

(in reply to Motorboy)
       Post #: 4

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 12/1/2004 12:38:35 PM   
RhyanO



Posts: 255
Joined: 9/27/2004
From: Cross Plains, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replys on mixing up some diesel fuel.

Very informative and helpful.

Thanks much,
Ryan

(in reply to knarF)
       Post #: 5

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 12/1/2004 1:53:25 PM   
gcb



Posts: 2340
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline 		JB,

Parafin is called kerosene in the USA. Lamp oil is a substitute used by some people because it is scented. This, to some, makes the smell less offensive.

...without the stink, it ain't diesel, IMHO!

George

(in reply to RhyanO)
       Post #: 6

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 12/1/2004 7:57:30 PM   
Motorboy



Posts: 1629
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: Bergen, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Some time i am using kerosene or autodiesel. With autodiesel are the engine better lubricated.

Jens Eirik

(in reply to gcb)
       Post #: 7

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 12/1/2004 9:26:41 PM   
John C



Posts: 258
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: Summerville, SC, USA
Status: offline 		In the USA, lamp oil is similar to kerosene or # 1 Diesel, latter sold in the winter to reduce fuel jelling in cold temperatures. Diesel # 2 is the normal automotive stuff.

With respect to lubrication, the # 2 has better lubrication properties then the # 1 / kerosene and in auto diesels the latter is not recommended due to fuel system wear issues. In the model Diesel, with 20 - 33% castor oil, I don't think there would be any significant difference to the model engine.

I assume the Castrol mentioned from the UK is the 'R' stuff, sure smelled good in 2 cycle motorcycle engines years ago

John C

Frog and AM 2.5 cc Diesels

(in reply to Motorboy)
       Post #: 8

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 12/2/2004 5:21:08 AM   
Motorboy



Posts: 1629
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: Bergen, NORWAY
Status: offline 		John..

In east Europa to example Russia, Ukraine.. they adding 10-15 % gasoline/petrol in autodiesel to improve starting in winter.

In Norway we used kerosene with 2 stroke oil added before we got winter autodiesel in modern days.

Jens Eirik

_____________________________

Jens Eirik
All landings are just controlled crashes!

(in reply to John C)
       Post #: 9

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 12/2/2004 9:27:05 AM   
ghost123uk



Posts: 192
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Chester, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Motorboy

John..

In east Europa to example Russia, Ukraine.. they adding 10-15 % gasoline/petrol in autodiesel to improve starting in winter.

In Norway we used kerosene with 2 stroke oil added before we got winter autodiesel in modern days.

Jens Eirik


Intetresting stuf Jens,
I must try that on my friends Ford 4 cylinder Diesel boat engine.

I too have used auto Diesel and find I can reduce the amount of Castor oil as it has better lube quality than Kerosene.
It also has a highe calorific value, so may give more power per cc of fuel, ( better for team race ? )

Some gasoline in model Diesel fuel (and in Glow fuel) makes the motor run hotter, maybe an advantage in some applications, tho right now I can't think of one !

Re "Castrol" Castor oil - yep smells nice in full size gasoline 2 strokes - The R30 or R40 (grade) is ok for Gasoline and Diesel but for Glow fuel, one must use the M30 or M40 type so it will mix with the alchohol.

_____________________________

JB in N.W. UK - (if you are into control line in my area, get in touch - we have a good scene going these days :) )

(in reply to Motorboy)
       Post #: 10

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 12/3/2004 12:24:02 AM   
John C



Posts: 258
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: Summerville, SC, USA
Status: offline 		Jens Erik,

Addition of gasoline (petro) to Diesel fuel is to prevent jelling in cold weather. Gasoline has a very poor cetane (auto ignition) rating, just the opposite of automotive diesel fuel, so gasoline does not help Diesel combustion. My 1981 Diesel VW Rabbit allowed up to 10% gasoline in Diesel fuel to reduce jelling.

In the US, there is now a 'winterized' Diesel fuel to reduce the jelling (cloud) point temperature.

Present vehicles include a 2001 VW Jetta TDI and 2003 Cummins ISB powered Dodge Ram 2500 (I worked for Cummins 37 years before retirement).

John C

(in reply to ghost123uk)
       Post #: 11

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 12/3/2004 5:16:50 AM   
Motorboy



Posts: 1629
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: Bergen, NORWAY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John C

Jens Erik,

Addition of gasoline (petro) to Diesel fuel is to prevent jelling in cold weather. Gasoline has a very poor cetane (auto ignition) rating, just the opposite of automotive diesel fuel, so gasoline does not help Diesel combustion. My 1981 Diesel VW Rabbit allowed up to 10% gasoline in Diesel fuel to reduce jelling.

John C


I know, i am car mechanic..

"prevent jelling in cold weather", in Norway we are talking about the dieselfuel are "waxed" if cold winter are coming, it will not allow to filtrating in dieselfilter when fuel are jelled...

Jens Eirik

_____________________________

Jens Eirik
All landings are just controlled crashes!

(in reply to John C)
       Post #: 12

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 12/3/2004 11:19:43 AM   
AndyW


 

Posts: 1890
Joined: 1/17/2003
From: Timmins, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I've been running Norvels converted to diesel and they perform very well. At first, I had trouble with the 1/3rd formula. That is, 1/3rd ether, kerosene and oil with 2% amyl nitrate.

Eventually, I stumbled on the fact that MEKP works great. Also, 33.33% oil in modern engines is NOT required. As well, John Deere quick start is 80% ether and works perfectly. Oil is Sig AA castor or Klotz Benol.

Formula:

Ether 30%
kero 50%
oil 20%
MEKP 2%

Yes, this adds up to 102% but hey that just means you get that much more fuel. :0)
Kidding aside, the numbers used are to make it simpler to understand.

I've run this formula on engines from .049, .061, .074, .15 Norvels and an Enya11CX converted. All start easily with a starter, run strong and throttle well. All the Norvels have been flown extensively, winter and summer, no bent rods or busted cranks. The key is to make sure your compression setting is right on the money, your needle is set and you apply just THREE drops of prime into the INTAKE and NEVER the exhaust. Hit it with your starter and she should fire off. If not, your line to the carb was not full but the first prime run ought to have done the trick and the next prime should get you running. I've even been so brave as to choke the throttle while applying the starter. Works if careful, no busted parts yet.

BTW,
No jelling in winter with hardware store kerosene. Mind you, this is at just above or just below freezing.

< Message edited by 1705493-Andy -- 12/26/2004 1:32:37 PM >

_____________________________

Andy Woitowicz

(in reply to RhyanO)
       Post #: 13

RE: Home-brew Diesel Fuel - 12/3/2004 4:55:08 PM