RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed?  
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RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/1/2004 7:18:25 PM   
dicknadine


 

Posts: 2059
Joined: 7/17/2003
From: Greensburg, LA, USA
Status: offline 		as an OLD time builder and free flight flyer, from way back in middle 1930's, it all boils down to TIME management. whats your priority? 24 hours a day for all of us and how many hours for building and how many for flying our models. today its SOOO many things to do in the 24 hours and this computor, on RCU, is getting its share. instead of waiting for the weekend to ask questions at the field, I get lots of answers in minutes from RCU. result buy a READY TO FLY and have fun, while it lasts and still have time for everything else.. that is except me, and being retired, I use my 24 hours for designing and building my one of-a-kind scratch giants for one flight, then SHOW and TELL. dick

(in reply to CRFlyer)
       Post #: 26

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/1/2004 8:45:09 PM   
R. C. Day


 

Posts: 139
Joined: 12/25/2002
From: Grand Prairie, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I started flying 1/2A ukies and Free Flights in the sixties, (I still have every glow engine I ever bought, Cox .010 through ST2500), I graduated to R/C with Galloping Ghost, Sterling Mini Mombo in 1971.

A career in the Navy kept me out of modeling until shore duty (1983) when I started flying sailplanes in San Diego (Torrey Pines Gulls). I retired from the Navy in 1996, I still scratch, plan and kit build, mostly electric and gas now.

I prefer to build over fly, I am a perfectionest and just hate to see all of that work get rekitted.
I will continue to build and fly some, but the desire to creative over rules the desire to fly.

(in reply to dicknadine)
       Post #: 27

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/1/2004 8:48:45 PM   
CafeenMan



Posts: 3907
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Spring Hill, FL, USA
Status: offline 		No, we are not a dying breed. In fact, I've been writing an article about this specific topic for my website.

The sky isn't falling, the world isn't coming to an end, Oswald shot JFK and who cares about Area 51 anyway?

There will always be artists and there are more kits available now than ever. You just can't look to the major manufacturers who care more about their bottom line than the hobby. There are a ton of garage operations making exceptional kits due to CAD and laser cutting.

As long as there are creative people, there will be builders regardless of whether ARF's totally dominate the market or not.

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Work is what I do for the love of it. A job is how I pay for it. :)
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(in reply to R. C. Day)
       Post #: 28

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/1/2004 9:08:58 PM   
khodges


 

Posts: 5143
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: newton, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Kit building is the low-risk part of the hobby for me--can play with planes without the worry of crashing. I've always loved building things, and a kit lets me create something fairly unique, since I can't seem to resist changing something when I build one, and any kit will be different enough from any ARF at the field. I'll always prefer kit building.

The only thing I wonder, Cafeenman, is what ever happened to Areas 1-50, or are they even more secret? maybe that's where Elvis lives, and where Hoffa is buried.

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       Post #: 29

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/1/2004 9:13:15 PM   
Jim T


 

Posts: 151
Joined: 10/15/2004
From: Warrenton, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Good topic. I have to agree that we aren't a dying breed. Here's what I think will happen. Thanks to ARFs we have a lot more folks getting into flying than ever before. As they get better, I think a point will be reached where more and more will want planes that they can only get by building. These will probably be high end, involved scale kits like Proctor and Glen Torrance. Or kits that will give them a plane different from all the ARFs at the field. Couple this with the fact that more and more baby boomers are retiring and looking for something to do as well as having the disposable income to work with. Also, as CafeenMan said there are more and more garage operations able to make a profit turning out a relatively small number of kits.

Jim

(in reply to CafeenMan)
       Post #: 30

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/1/2004 9:29:41 PM   
CafeenMan



Posts: 3907
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Spring Hill, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: khodges

The only thing I wonder, Cafeenman, is what ever happened to Areas 1-50, or are they even more secret? maybe that's where Elvis lives, and where Hoffa is buried.


I can neither confirm nor deny that areas 12, 28 and 47 are in the sock second from the bottom on the right hand side of the bottom most drawer in my bedroom.


Jim T - You hit on a point that I was going to mention. Good pilots are going to run into the problem of their skills surpassing the capabilities of ARF's. As good as ARF's are getting, they will probably never reach the point of a similar model built by an expert. A manufacturer simply can't hand select every piece of wood and take the time to achieve a perfect fit. They wouldn't be competitive and would be bankrupt in short order.

It's a very small market, but that's the type custom building I do. Most folks expect I'm going to build them a model for the same cost as or slightly more than an ARF. They are shocked when I tell them $1,000.00 for a .40 sport model. The difference is that mine weighs a pound less and is a better overall plane. But I don't sell many either. What do you suppose the percentage of pilots is that can even tell the difference? How many guys really trim their planes beyond straight and level?

When a pilot becomes very good and he can't build, he's in trouble.

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Work is what I do for the love of it. A job is how I pay for it. :)
Please visit AirfieldModels.com

(in reply to khodges)
       Post #: 31

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/1/2004 10:45:59 PM   
WORNBOOTS



Posts: 1007
Joined: 8/7/2002
From: Princeton, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Actually for Me it can go either way, but building will always be my true enjoyment'
If kits die off I hope that the smaller "garage type" will take up the slack but there will always be the creativity and intrest.
Arf's are great for the sport/hobby to help it grow and bring future offerings, trainers to scale show-birds its here to apease some tastes.

I like to search for the original kit when it was first released, like my Kougar I spent many hours trying to find the year, original color etc. I met Claude McCullough through the research, and enjoyed the info he supplied as well as some of his thoughts.

I'm into the 70's kits because when I first got into RC in 77-78 every kit in the tower or ahc ads "I wanted" or at least most of the sporty ones.

Shoestring-Cosmic Wind- LT 40 they all have caught someones eye and intrests whether Kit or Arf, and I feel for the most part they always will.

Kit's take a special tallent and commitment as well as scratch builts, but its ok to want to skip the build part and still enjoy flying"
_______________________________________________________ ___________
**Enjoy the Thrill of Flight' Become an R C Pilot**
****Fingers and Props' Have a Natural Attraction****Dan Z

(in reply to CafeenMan)
       Post #: 32

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/1/2004 11:54:28 PM   
1rcflier


 

Posts: 29
Joined: 10/12/2003
From: higley, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Great points...all of them...well said

(in reply to Safebet)
       Post #: 33

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/2/2004 12:53:45 AM   
Gray Beard


 

Posts: 2267
Joined: 4/21/2003
From: Hemderson, NV, USA
Status: offline 		I would have to say we are for the most part A breed apart and there are fewer and fewer of us at the fields these days.
Anymore I mostly build from scratch/plans but every now and again {Like Now} I will have A kit in the shop that I happened to find at A fly in or something and just couldn't pass up the deal. At the moment it is an old 60 size AeroMaster kit, I wanted the Giant but missed the deal.
I was just looking at the CG Pitt's ARF just for grins and they want $450.00 for it, my question is why can't I sell A scratch or kit built plane of the same type and size for half that?? No takers, everyone wants it for free though.
The price of wood has gone up over the last year or two and if I can find the subject I want to build in the correct size as A kit I can sometimes build the kit for less then scratch.
No way can I build A plane for less then the price of an ARF today, kit or scratch. True, I use better hardware and my planes are tougher but price for price the ARF is now the better deal in the money factor. My new 1/4 scale extra is an ARF and it is built pretty darn well, it was less then half the price it would have taken to build it and there was no time involved in it at all.
As long as the kit cutters keep making planes that are different then the run of the mill I think there will always be A few of us that still like to do it yourself. At the moment I'm the only one I know that is still building at the two clubs I belong to, hope the trend changes sometime soon.

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       Post #: 34

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/2/2004 1:24:03 AM   
Fubar-One



Posts: 1774
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Canyon Country, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Funny you mention Cox .049's. I have bought, on Ebay of course, a couple of the C/L kits I had as a kid, the Li'l Wizard (learned to fly C/L with that), and the Baby Ringmaster which I learned to BUILD on. Trying to decide whether to build and use monocote or actual SILKSPAN to cover em with.
quote:

ORIGINAL: taildragger01

Some of you guys got your wings on the old COX .49,s and I guess you could call them ARF,s and I cut my teeth on the old comet and gillows tishew and stick modles. and then my first Sig with a craft TX sys,. these ARF flyers of today just might be tomarows kit builders.


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(in reply to taildragger01)
       Post #: 35

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/2/2004 1:27:32 AM   
papermache



Posts: 703
Joined: 9/26/2002
From: Gary, IN, USA
Status: offline 		It's true that the "big" companies like SIG, Goldberg, and Great Planes are not exactly tripping over each other to introduce new kits. It's also true that whenever I go to my flying field, there are so many ARFs that I think I might as well be at a dog show. HOWEVER, I don't think all is lost for the kit builder.
A couple of writers in this thread have alluded to digitized laser cutting technology and its possibilities for newer and better kits. I totally agree, and that day has already arrived in many cases. Just look at the quality of a kit from Fun Aero, Adrian Page or Mosquitobite Planes (I know there are others, but this is to mention a few I have experience with). These are phenominal kits when compared to some of the kits of 20 or so years ago. If we kit builders keep buying, this situation can only get better.
In the meantime, talk up kit building at your club or on your local field. If some newbie or young kid is interested, volunteer to help them get started building. We can do something about the lack of builders if we try. And if the kit supply goes away, there's always scratch.

papermache

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(in reply to Gray Beard)
       Post #: 36

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/2/2004 2:27:55 AM   
submikester


 

Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/13/2004
From: El Segundo, CA, USA
Status: online 		Well - what I miss are the days when great planes put out more kits than arfs - or at least all of their arfs were kits first.

What I wouldn't give for a U-Can-Do KIT to build. It's a very nice looking airplane - I just don't want an ARF. I have a few arfs mind you but I desire more kits than arfs. Arfs have little individuality in them. Save for maybe Sig's where they give you a simply covered model. I have a Sig 4*40 arf (won it at a raffle) that is just all yellow. I put some red monocot on it in a nice pattern and now it's very individualized. Of course you could do this with any ARF but most come with multi-color schemes that don't lend themselves to this well.

I love kit building and don't intend to stop ever. I've been doing this for 21 years - since I was 10 - I remember when ARFs started coming around and while I don't mind them I just wish there were more kits out there than there are.

(in reply to papermache)
       Post #: 37

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/2/2004 12:12:03 PM   
xplayer930


 

Posts: 659
Joined: 2/24/2004
From: long island, NY, USA
Status: offline 		well being 18 an all i have like zero time to build. But i still find time on sundays, and a few hours a week after school to build. Im gettin the GP giant extra 330L for christmass.

(in reply to submikester)
       Post #: 38

RE: Kit building, are we a dieing breed? - 12/2/2004 2:38:28 PM   
BuzzBomber



Posts: 2612
Joined: 12/17/2002
From: Newton, NJ, USA
Status: offline