RE: REMOVE THE WASHER!  
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All Forums >> RC Cars, Buggies, Trucks, Tanks and more >> RC Monster Trucks >> Losi Monster Trucks >> RE: REMOVE THE WASHER!
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RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/4/2005 3:23:45 AM   
Johnny Ripper



Posts: 792
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		DON'T REMOVE THE WASHER!!

< Message edited by Bash Master -- 1/4/2005 3:25:29 AM >

(in reply to jefx)
       Post #: 51

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/4/2005 3:52:39 AM   
94never_done


 

Posts: 37
Joined: 1/3/2005
From: Crystal City, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Hi guys, I am very new to the LST and this forum. I was concerned, and I was afraid to take the engine apart as it was all brand new and working well. However, I didn't want to wait 2-3 weeks for a new engine if it fragged. I called Horizon Hobby and asked the tech guy if all the talk on the internet was true-- did I have anything to worry about.

His first question was did I run the engine yet? I told him yes, and then he said they were recommending to send all engines in for inspection(the LHS I bought it from never told me this). He said there was an issue on some engines with the washer. Also said some guys were taking the washer out and some leaving it in. In the end, he told me to send the engine to him and he would inspect it to make sure it was performing correctly. I wasn't really sure what that meant.

I hung up with Horizon and promptly took the engine apart and removed the washer. It appeared exactly as the above Joules88's pictures-- very thin, and with grooves on the conrod side. Otherwise it looked fine as far as I could tell.

Maybe it is supposed to look like this though? Does anyone have a brand new engine they are willing to take apart and see what the washer looks like?

< Message edited by 94never_done -- 1/4/2005 3:55:25 AM >

(in reply to Johnny Ripper)
       Post #: 52

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/4/2005 5:02:58 AM   
jefx



Posts: 3562
Joined: 8/19/2003
From: mach pk, IL,
Status: offline 		Yes. In the first page of this thread, there is a picture of the washer on Pinhole's finger. It is smooth with no grooves. The washer (when new) will be smooth on both sides. The grooves are from the wear that occurs to the washer when it is left in the engine. Eventually those grooves will become deep enough that the washer will either seperate and shred, or it will become deformed and then shred. Either way, it'll most likely shred and destroy your engine.

_____________________________

Who farted??!!

(in reply to 94never_done)
       Post #: 53

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/4/2005 5:06:06 AM   
94never_done


 

Posts: 37
Joined: 1/3/2005
From: Crystal City, MO, USA
Status: offline 		OK. I have removed mine. Has anyone inspected their conrod or oneway bearing after running without the washer for a while? Just wondering if there will be any noticeable where and how long it could take.

(in reply to jefx)
       Post #: 54

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/4/2005 5:17:11 AM   
Pinolelst


 

Posts: 1477
Joined: 10/5/2004
From: pinole, CA, USA
Status: offline 		3 1/2 gallons and I replaced my one way.I noticed it had some slight wear on the one way but only enough to take a little of the color away.I suspect the washer would've left a similar mark..... just before it left big gouges in my cylinder walls

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Losi LST's #2190,#8380 and XXXT MF2
TeamAE NTC3,brushless TC3,brushless RC18t

(in reply to 94never_done)
       Post #: 55

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/4/2005 5:17:42 AM   
jefx



Posts: 3562
Joined: 8/19/2003
From: mach pk, IL,
Status: offline 		I've seen a couple pictures of people's engines that have visual wear on the conrod after removing the washer.

The washer is actually there to keep the rotor from rubbing on the conrod if the rotor becomes worn enough to do so. The problem is that the rotor is spring loaded and puts constant pressure on the washer "sandwiching" it in between the rotor and conrod. The washer is not able to handle the pressure/heat/high rpms of the engine when placed where it is and shreds itself inside the engine.

Removing the washer may increase wear on the conrod over time, but leaving the washer in the engine results in damage way sooner.

The engine was designed for a pull start which does not require the washer, but when Losi designed the roto-start to be retro-fitted to the Mach .26, they designed it poorly. The thickness and shape of the washer should have been machined into the rotor, making it all one piece so the the washer's shape and thickness would protrude from the rotor itself, while keeping the proper clearances so that the rotor and conrod will never rub.

You may experience damage with either route you take, but it's safe to say that your engine will last much longer with a better chance for survival without the evil washer.

_____________________________

Who farted??!!

(in reply to 94never_done)
       Post #: 56

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/4/2005 6:08:35 PM   
94never_done


 

Posts: 37
Joined: 1/3/2005
From: Crystal City, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Maybe its just me, but this situation sure seems f*&ked up. I feel like I am in a rock in a hard place that shouldn't even exist in the first place. This is a brand new engine! Maybe I'll put the washer back in and send it to Horizon to see what happens. I just hate to be without my truck for any amount of time, but then maybe others can benefit from what I find out. I'm so considerate

(in reply to jefx)
       Post #: 57

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/4/2005 6:14:54 PM   
jefx



Posts: 3562
Joined: 8/19/2003
From: mach pk, IL,
Status: offline 		Neither solution is a perfect one, but there have been far less complaints about the engine after the washer has been removed as opposed to leaving it in.

The best solution is just to use a pull start, but we all like having the roto start to turn over the big block engine. Using a pull start just trades one set of problems for another.

The majority of people have had positive results from removing the washer.

If you send it in, then make sure to keep us informed.

_____________________________

Who farted??!!

(in reply to 94never_done)
       Post #: 58

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/5/2005 3:38:10 AM   
94never_done


 

Posts: 37
Joined: 1/3/2005
From: Crystal City, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Guys, this might be old news but thought I would just pass it along. Thanks to Team Losi for quickly responding to my email. I questioned them about the washer and their response was not to remove the washer prior to engine breakin (if Team Losi reading this please don't be angry, just trying to pass the info along). I will now breathe a sigh of relief and thoroughly enjoy my LST!

Thanks for all the info guys.

< Message edited by 94never_done -- 1/5/2005 3:39:15 AM >

(in reply to jefx)
       Post #: 59

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/5/2005 10:57:51 AM   
Joules88



Posts: 5
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Chester, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi all,

I got a response back from Horizon the UK distributor regarding the 'washer' within the mach .26

Please see below, but the response would indicate they had not read my mail thoroughly. In any case looks like the item can be removed anyway and it is confirmed it is not present in the later units.

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh Swinford
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 1:54 PM
To: product support
Subject: RE: Contact from New HorizonHobby.com


Dear Julian,

Thank you for your recent email. If you have a Mach .26 with this shim between the crank and internal starter rotor you can remove it if you have run a gallon or more of fuel through it. You may also leave the shim in but at this point it serves no real purpose. Newer units do not use this shim so do not be disturbed if your Mach.26 does not have one. I hope you find this information helpful. If you have any other questions, please reply to this email or call us.

Thanks,
Josh Swinford
Product Support Team Member
Horizon Hobby Distributors
4105 Fieldstone Rd.
Champaign, IL 61822


_____________________________

____________________________________________
Losi LST

(in reply to 94never_done)
       Post #: 60

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/5/2005 10:15:03 PM   
lstmanuk



Posts: 295
Joined: 10/18/2004
From: scotland, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		does anyone know why you should run a gallon or more through it before removing the washer.

thanks.

_____________________________

team losi LST

(in reply to Joules88)
       Post #: 61

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/6/2005 12:08:32 AM   
Z Car



Posts: 12
Joined: 11/10/2004
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Hi
The latest posts indicate the advice from Horizon and Losi is to leave the washer in until break-in, then remove it if you want to.

I already removed the washer from my engine and have not yet run the truck. Should I put the washer back in before running it for the first time?

(in reply to jefx)
       Post #: 62

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/6/2005 1:11:28 AM   
94never_done


 

Posts: 37
Joined: 1/3/2005
From: Crystal City, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Z-car, I would put it back in. Here is the exact quote I got back from Losi:

"It will work with or with out it. I would not remove it before it is broken in."

(in reply to Z Car)
       Post #: 63

RE: REMOVE THE WASHER! - 1/6/2005 8:29:55 AM   
Joules88



Posts: 5
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Chester, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi again Gents,

This is the last response from Helger racing un the UK (Distributors) and the most likely cause is identified.



Thanks ****,

I will pass on the information to some other concerned bodies.

Regards,

Julian