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Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/2/2004 5:01:37 PM   
Turbobeaver


 

Posts: 301
Joined: 12/11/2003
From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		With winter now upon us and snow on the ground,it got me to thinking more about preparing for a season of winter flying.One of the things I have never done is fly SPAD in the winter.It has been my experience from flying in the fall season that Coro does funny things in the cold.I had a pizza box that flew great in the summer but once the colder temperatures set in,the Coro would start to flex and warp when I brought it out to the field.I also found out that wind chill affects this stuff greatly also while in flight.It was so uncontrollable I just don't fly it in the cold weather anymore and my flying buddies thank me for that. They got tired of packing two pairs of undies every time we went out to the field.

I'm thinking that a folded type symetrical wing with a wing spar would have much more rigidity in the wing structure and stay truer with the various temperature changes.My intent of this topic is to start a discussion regarding SPAD and the affects of cold temperatures on the Coroplas,etc. that is used in its construction.If you have experience with cold weather flying and SPAD's,lets here about your personal experiences or comments on this subject.Should be very interesting and informative.Good flying guy's!
       Post #: 1

RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/2/2004 9:00:16 PM   
Dewey2


 

Posts: 1896
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: sparta, TN, USA
Status: offline 		cold makes it stiffer heat makes it flex mine fly better in the winter

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       Post #: 2

RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/3/2004 11:56:46 AM   
Clean



Posts: 994
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Parkville, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Flown mine in sub-zero as well as 100 plus. Only difference I really know of was that when I rammed through a guy on New Years day our planes let out the most pleasent of a whack, kinda reverberated I think. Both planes came down a little faster than we had planned. His spinning wildly without half a wing panel. My fuse minus a wing and the wing split towards the middle in helicopter mode. Just simply Glorious. 'Mine landed last!' he claimed. 'Which part?' I asked. Looking at the photo we took afterward I saw that he had a full streamer on his plane while I had to leave mine in the brambles. Then after a month or two I realized that when I retrieved both planes, HIS didn't have a streamer on either. Sucker had tied a new one on for the picture as I had cut his off on my way through his plane. Sly dog.

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RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/7/2004 6:34:17 AM   
bobo_54501



Posts: 260
Joined: 4/4/2003
From: Rhinelander, WI, USA
Status: offline 		I think coro is a little more fragile in the cold .Still out lives Balsa 100,000 times over but it will tear or break easier in the cold . I had some glue come lose in flight once to .Wing opened up on the T.E. It got real interesting real fast. .L.O.L. What I do to be on the safe side is to cut small PVC backing plates and put 3 on each side of the wing on the T.E. I run a screw threw the first plate then threw the coro and then into a backing plate on the bottom of the wing .It adds a little more weight but they survive almost anything cold or hot .

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       Post #: 4

RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/7/2004 3:01:33 PM   
FentonFlyer


 

Posts: 324
Joined: 3/2/2003
From: Fenton, MI, USA
Status: offline 		It definitely gets brittle as the temp drops,I've had it crack across the flutes in sub freezing temps. Of course almost anything becomes more fragile in cold temps including monocote.

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RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/7/2004 3:25:23 PM   
lomcevek1



Posts: 940
Joined: 1/3/2003
From: Eagle River, AK, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FentonFlyer

It definitely gets brittle as the temp drops,I've had it crack across the flutes in sub freezing temps. Of course almost anything becomes more fragile in cold temps including monocote.



True, Just for some info Monokote gets very brittle at -45F

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       Post #: 6

RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/13/2004 6:29:58 AM   
RickShaw739


 

Posts: 27
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Dry Ridge, KY, USA
Status: offline 		-45 ! ...Hell's Bell's where do you live? LOL

I'm glad to see this post because I was just thinking the other day of flying in the cold weather.
No snow here as yet temps are in the low 30's and dropping more everyday.

But my thoughts where more on engine performance than the plane holding together, all though I guess it should be.

I too had a wing come open on the TE in hot weather one day, but I wasn't as lucky as bobo_54501 was. I lost her to a very high tree. Over the last year parts of her have come down bit by bit, I've got the wing and landing gear back so far. LOL, and no one I've met yet has the...uh-you know what I mean...to climb it. At the time we climbed up as far as we could and with binoculars we could see the T.E. wide open on her.

I'm sure the fuselage is still fairly good, but the Rx. and servo's and the engine have got to be shot by now anyway. So either way it's never been worth a life to try and get it down. Besides she was a AirCore 40. But she was my first SPAD. And I learned allot from putting her together.
But ya just can't ever get off your mind all that money hanging up there!

But on the subject again. What about engine performance and flying in the cold weather?
Any tips on this here? or just give it a good warm up first and if it sounds good, then go for it!?

< Message edited by RickShaw739 -- 12/13/2004 6:47:58 AM >

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RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/13/2004 2:04:49 PM   
voyager_663rd


 

Posts: 1196
Joined: 2/11/2003
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		and keep in mind it's not just the "measured" temp on the thermometer. When that plane is moving at 60+ mph, you have to take into account the force of the wind (ie windchill). The temp for the coro is probably close to -60 or more depending on "measured" temp.

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RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/13/2004 3:20:01 PM   
Deadeye



Posts: 3805
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: Conrad, MT, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: voyager_663rd

and keep in mind it's not just the "measured" temp on the thermometer. When that plane is moving at 60+ mph, you have to take into account the force of the wind (ie windchill). The temp for the coro is probably close to -60 or more depending on "measured" temp.


I don't think wind chill has an affect on non-living things. Anyway, here's my observations. I have crashed at +90, and at -30. I noticed no difference in the wreckage. I use poly glue, and the joints never break, even when crashed. I have noticed that my flutes 'swell' with darker colored coroplast and hot temperatures. But no adverse anything with coro and cold temps.

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RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/13/2004 3:58:17 PM   
voyager_663rd


 

Posts: 1196
Joined: 2/11/2003
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		The plane is experiencing colder temps flying than parked. Doesn't matter if its alive or dead.

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RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/13/2004 4:30:37 PM   
Deadeye



Posts: 3805
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: Conrad, MT, USA
Status: offline 		I hate to argue, but this quote is taken off one of the MANY sites that reinforce this idea:

"Remember...wind chill temperatures apply only to people and other living things. If the temperature is 35°°F and the wind chill is 10°°F, objects such as pipes or cars will only cool to 35°°F. The wind chill factor does not apply to non-living objects"

Quote taken from here.

I wouldn't even try to prove the point, but there may be some guy who reads this, and decides to not fly because of the wind chill.

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       Post #: 11

RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/13/2004 5:27:10 PM   
Turbobeaver


 

Posts: 301
Joined: 12/11/2003
From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hey guy's.Interesting discussion going on here about "wind chill".It would seem that a lot of people misunderstand the concept of wind chill and its affects on things living and not.Present company included I might add .I did a little poking around on the net and it would seem that Deadeye is indeed dead on in what he is saying.Check it out for yourself guy's.I just did a search on Google for "wind chill and car radiators" and you can read for yourselves.

To a degree,I think there are other circumstances at play here which can indeed back up what Voyager663 was saying about speed equating to lower temperatures.This is assuming that the item(for example a SPAD)is already at the same temperature as the outdoor temperature.Now what if this particular Spad is black in colour and it is a sunny winter day.Wouldn't the hinges on this particular SPAD be easier to flex when it is stationary that when it is flying?Obviously,because the colour black absorbs the most heat from the sun of all colours thus increasing the temperature and flexibilty of the plastic.I'm playing devils advocate here guy's .What do you think?

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       Post #: 12

RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/13/2004 6:26:24 PM   
Deadeye



Posts: 3805
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: Conrad, MT, USA
Status: offline 		I can see your point, and I think it holds water. Darker coro does absorb heat, even on a cold day. But this is the skinny on how wind chill effects living organisms. The cold, combined with the wind, cools faster due to the MOISTURE in our skin. This effect is ONLY possible with LIVING ORGANISM, and only when moisture is in the equation (I can't think of an instance where moisture WOULDN'T come into play). Look at it like this, if it's 0 out, and a 20 MPH wind, that is a -39 wind chill. Now, if it were true that non-living objects were affected by this, wouldn't the themometer show -39? It doesn't matter if it is -39 wind chill. To our models, it's the ambient air temp only. If, a guy where crazy enough to fly with a -39 wind chill, and his model is flying into the wind at 40, then that is a wind chill of -53. It seems that winds over 40 have little ADDITIONAL cooling effect. If the model is experiencing that temp, I would venture to guess that the coroplast would shatter at such a cold temperature.

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RE: Cold temperatures + Coroplas? - 12/13/2004 6:27:57 PM   
voyager_663rd


 

Posts: 1196
Joined: 2/11/2003
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deadeye

I hate to argue, but this quote is taken off one of the MANY sites that reinforce this idea:

"Remember...wind chill temperatures apply only to people and other living things. If the temperature is 35°°F and the wind chill is 10°°F, objects such as pipes or cars will only cool to 35°°F. The wind chill factor does not apply to non-living objects"

Quote taken from here.

I wouldn't even try to prove the point, but there may be some guy who reads this, and decides to not fly because of the wind chill.


I stand corrected. Hard to wrap your head around it though. But if its only because of accelerated heat loss, then wouldn't the engine have that much more difficulty in maintaining internal heat? (I know its coro we're talking about but side trips are fun too).

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