RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (Full Version)

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Cyberwolf -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (4/22/2012 2:29 PM)

I just checked the plans and the CG is from 5 to 5-3/4 inches from the leading edge at the dowel.



karolh -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (4/22/2012 6:39 PM)

My Extra with an EI G23 weighs in at approx. 9.75 lbs and is balanced at 5.25" from the LE at the wing root, and has never displayed any of the wing dropping habit you have mentioned, even when flown at a crawl. Your model at 10+ lbs is still very much within this model's flying weight capability as proven by CG Extras that are powered by big Saitos in the 11+ lb range that still fly very well. Based on your model's flight performance I would certainly check all the incidences and lateral balance on your model for correctness, as this model's major attribute is it's absolutely wonderful flying manners.

Karol



Gray Beard -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (4/22/2012 9:23 PM)

Sorry, I posted about 5 AM and forgot to check the CG on mine. I have it set at 5.5 inches back from the LE. I go back to 5.75 once in a while but about 5.5 is about normal. I also have 1/2 ounce of lead on the outside of the left wing tip. I can't get my plane down and assembled to check the incidence. Between back pain and my shop being in building mode I can't get it down right now. By moving some plans off the floor I was able to get up and check the CG I have marked on the wing with a square.[;)][:D]



jcvt -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (4/22/2012 10:47 PM)

In addition of what have been said, I would check maximum throws on the elevator and aileron. If you have exceeded maximum throws It could leave you to snap and tip stall easy. Dowload the mannual and check for "setting up" in the last page.

Good luck



Gray Beard -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (4/23/2012 2:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jcvt

In addition of what have been said, I would check maximum throws on the elevator and aileron. If you have exceeded maximum throws It could leave you to snap and tip stall easy. Dowload the mannual and check for ''setting up'' in the last page.

Good luck

Not quite, I have set it up with triple rates with ultra high at 28 to 30 Degrees on all my control surfaces. In the air on high rates the plane will snap and stall and do all kinds of odd things if I move the sticks too far in any direction. However when I'm landing the plane will only react badley if I over control the sticks by moving them incorrectly. I have a small {37 inch} Extra 260 set up this way and it will get with the program in flight when I want it to, on landing and slow flight it only reacts to my inputs. If by chance I do over control the sticks on landing this plane could get out of control in a hart beat and snap as you mentioned. So far that little pilot error hasn't happened, a few close calls but no losses yet. Control throws are controled by the pilot. My normal throws on this plane are between 10 and 12 degrees.



karolh -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (4/23/2012 5:11 AM)

The throws on my Extra on high rate are, elevator 12 deg. ailerons 25 deg and rudder 35 deg, with 30% expo on all surfaces including throttle.

Karol



Cyberwolf -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (4/23/2012 3:22 PM)

Myself I would still look for a warped or twisted wing, I Looked at the plans again and it was as I thought , there is zero degrees incidence , with the exception of the 2 degrees right thrust offset of the engine. Which is about the norm for most.

Like Karol said go back to the basics and recheck everything ,it should be very easy to spot.



Gray Beard -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (4/23/2012 6:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikikopa

 Hi, Thought I'd add a little to this thread. I picked up an old CG Extra 300 with an O.S. 120. Not knowing it had bad bearings I couldn't get it to run well. But in the process of tuning I ran through a LOT of nitro, and realized it would cost me  mint to run this engine. I decided to go gas with this one. I picked up a RCG 26cc from Hobbyking and put it together. The plane already had a reenforced firewall so it was pretty straight forward. It came in at 10.5 lbs and  balances out at 5'' from the LE. Flies well, but not slow. I keep turning to my approach too slow, I'm getting horrible tip stalls. Is this a common characteristic of this airframe? Or could it be something I've set up in the plane? This is my most expensive plane to date( other's have been spads and hand me down airframes) so I'm still really nervous about making my base leg too low, and coming in higher, or faster  leaves me with very little runway. 

I went back and noticed where you live and the wolf may be onto something. From what I hear it can get humid on an island and you could start getting warps. As built and designed the plane has no bad problems at all but a warp in the wing or stab could change that.
I was looking at the HK catalog and noticed the RCG brands of engines. Some years ago I was using the RC Showcase 1.40 22cc high performance gas engines, I'm sure it was an import from China? I was wondering how you like the RCG? any idea how it compares to the DLE?
I still have one of the old RCS 1.40s I have been saving for my new CG Extra but I just came up with the old Ultra Sport 1000 kit, I'm thinking the 1.40 would go well in the US and I have several of the YS 1.20s still on hand that I know work very well in the CG Extra.



kalikikopa -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (4/24/2012 12:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gray Beard


I went back and noticed where you live and the wolf may be onto something. From what I hear it can get humid on an island and you could start getting warps. As built and designed the plane has no bad problems at all but a warp in the wing or stab could change that.
I was looking at the HK catalog and noticed the RCG brands of engines. Some years ago I was using the RC Showcase 1.40 22cc high performance gas engines, I'm sure it was an import from China? I was wondering how you like the RCG? any idea how it compares to the DLE?
I still have one of the old RCS 1.40s I have been saving for my new CG Extra but I just came up with the old Ultra Sport 1000 kit, I'm thinking the 1.40 would go well in the US and I have several of the YS 1.20s still on hand that I know work very well in the CG Extra.


I was looking at youtube videos on this kit and noticed they all come in rather fast. and straight in from a distance. It was a concern of mine since, at our park, a straight in approach is hampered by a street and utiltiy poles and lines on both sides of the street. The only choice is to make the turn to approach low and close to the runway. I'll just keep practicing my approach until I'm more accustomed to the Extra.
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&gfns=1&q=21.4005,-157.765088&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&sa=N&tab=wl is a link to the google maps or our field. the arrow is the runway. try the street view to see the approach.
As far as the RCG engine. I'm impressed by it so far. It's my first gas engine, but it runs pretty good, After choking it until it pops, it almost always starts on the first flip. I did have a deadstick on my 3rd flight. Have NO idea why. I'm sure it was my tuning. I didn't change a thing after that and ran it for about 30 minutes without trouble. I've changed my gas(the deadstick was with my old weedeater gas), and adjusted the needles again. Runs great. I've read on another forum that someone has interchanged DLE parts on a RCG 50cc, so they may be made in the same factory. Who knows. I've also read that it's an exact copy of a RCGF engine, but I see the spark plug angles in the other direction. I'm sure the DLE is a better engine, but for the price, This has worked well for me. If I had the chance to do it again, I think I'd get the RCG 30cc. On the HK website, it shows it at 1.3 hp more and about 130grams lighter. I might consider that one for a Ohio r/c Extra 300 airframe that I have hanging in my garage.




Gray Beard -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (4/24/2012 5:22 PM)

Seeing the map of your field I can see why you need to do a hard banking turn like you do. I like Extras, I have had them in all sizes {most sizes} ane all of them hve given me a stall warning, they will rock there wings back and forth when you are flying too slow. That warning is when you are level and straight, not banked. I have only had one, a 30% Extra that didn't give the warning. It would just stall the moment it was too slow. First time it did it to me was as I was coming out of a stall turn, scard the heck out of me!! You may have more of a field problem then a plane problem. Yes, the CG Extra will stall if you turn too slow in a bank. Take your plane way up and do some make beleave landings and see what happens. Mine doesn't stall unless I have it really banked and slow. I have 7 miles of flat here at the lake bed I fly at and I had a nice open field in Calif. so I have never been forced to bank hard at low speeed close to the ground. I have done it fooling around but it may have been nothing like you are forced to do. Mine is heavy too but has no bad habits, yours may be set up differently and have a slight wing loading problem?? Try moving your CG and do some test turns to see what happens way up high.[;)]



ExtraCGScott -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (4/24/2012 8:03 PM)

I do not exagerate when I say that the CG Extra is easier to land than the GP Perfect Trainer .40 that I learned to fly on.  I have a couple of obstacles on approach (big tree to the left and a big dangerous piece of old farm equipment on the right - probably 70 feet separates the two) - not to mention a fairly short and narrow runway (i.e., a strip of lawn behind the barn).  Needless to say I was scared to death to fly the my Extra from this strip the first time.  But - I found out that the Extra will fly to a crawl without a hint of bad behavior - it flyes exactly where you put it and requires very little runway to land.  Of course, mine was built with a ST .90 and I suspect it is lighter than most here that have put on bigger motors.  I like the combination as it is a perfect trainer for take offs and landings - but still has some pep (it snaps very nicely and rolls in a flash).  I am still debating whether to hang something larger on the front of it - the more I read this thread - the more tempted I get.    I will try to post some videos on how slow mine lands - if I can figure out how to....



kalikikopa -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/7/2012 1:48 AM)

A quick update. I've been practicing  landings and I'm getting better. I come in faster, and still high but I can get it to slow down nicelyand land smoothly. Did have a mishap the other daywhere I stalled it about 2 ft off the ground and broke the nose off again. Does seem to be a weak point with a 2.5lb engine hanging off the front. It did go together again nicely and I'll take it out again in a couple of days. Thanks again for all your help.



karolh -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/7/2012 2:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExtraCGScott

I will try to post some videos on how slow mine lands - if I can figure out how to....




Hey Scottie, we are all still waiting on the flight video you promised, thought we had forgotten huh [:)]

Karol



jcvt -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/7/2012 8:40 PM)

Back in business again, The leading edges were replaced for more robust one. I hope it withstands abuses better. The same with the front ribs. Now it is much better airplane and still lands like a trainer 40.



karolh -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/7/2012 9:36 PM)

Great that you got her all repaired and back in business, plus good for you regarding the strengthening mods you did to the wing, but no more tree landings please [:)]

Karol



jcvt -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/7/2012 10:49 PM)

I will try to avoid trees , but I am having problem with horses lately..[&o].. Funny But it is really difficult to find a flat and clear spot is this part of the island. The orography is shaped by several mountain chain that cross the island giving a mountainous terrain and steep slopes. I used to fly in akansas back in the 80`s, at that time there were a open field everywhere.



karolh -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/8/2012 12:35 AM)

Based on the natural topography of most of our Caribbean islands, all the available flat lands are normally utilized for agriculture or housing, but you are welcome to stop by up here in Jamaica and visit with us at the Kingston Polo Club field that we use.

Karol



ExtraCGScott -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/9/2012 3:19 AM)

I finally figured out how to edit and post videos!!

Here is my first video of my Extra! 

http://youtu.be/4fJHvutgsHo

She isn't a rocket ship - but she handles wonderfully (and lands like a trainer).  This was probably only my fourth flight on the plane/engine.  I was still breaking in both.  I have sinced leaned the motor a few clicks - she now purrrs smoothly. 



Gray Beard -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/9/2012 4:39 AM)

Well Scott, you win. I have never seen a CG extra float in and land that short, ever!!!. I can't tell you how impressed I was watching it. Mine floats in too but it is nothing like that, mine requires some space to slow down for landing. As far as in the air goes it is what it is but I'm betting yours has a bunch of good in it waiting for you to go nuts with it.
Heads up, they make mufflers for those engines!!![:)
Very impressive!!!!



karolh -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/9/2012 12:12 PM)

Very nice Scott and thanks for sharing your video with us. As Gray Beard mentioned, you model does seem to land quite short, good for you on that score as mine does need a bit of distance to come down. How much does your model weigh and what size prop are you using on that ST90.

Karol



ExtraCGScott -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/9/2012 1:49 PM)

Thank you for the comments guys.  As I posted a while ago - I was really reluctant to maiden it on this strip because I had no idea what its landing characteristics would be ... When I brought it in the very first time for a slow pass I was surprised how slow and stable it would fly.  I have been flying it with a 14-6 prop.  I broke it in on the ground with a 13-6, but the 14-6 allows it to idle forever at a very slow RPM.  I can not come in that slowly with the 13-6!   I am not quite sure how much it weighs - I am currently separated from it - she is in Wisconsin, I am in Panama for my job.  We will reunite next month :) and I will weigh it.   It was built very stock, besides the glass cowl, gear, reinforements for the gear, and kind of heavey soft mount.  I guess 8-9 pounds?  Grey Beard - yes.. it is a bit loud! (but I think the sound is amplified by the big barn that is behind me!).



OldScaleGuy -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/9/2012 7:33 PM)

Congratulations Scott, great video, you just can't beat the way the CG Extra flies. By the way, IMHO, it doesn't have to be fast to be fun. [:)]



Gray Beard -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/9/2012 7:37 PM)

Just kidding about the sound, I run open headers on several of mine. I really am amazed at the short approach you can make. I have never flown any CG Extra on grass. I have always flown from asphalt fields or the dry Lake Bed so I can approach tight, set the plane down at my feet but I know the roll out will be long. I have used a bit of fuel line and a washer to add wheel tension but if it / when it rots off I don't bother putting on new stuff. My wheel pants are a pain in the hinderpoo to remove to get at the axles. With 7 sq.mi. of flat and open I don't have to worry about roll out. You have a very smooth plane!!



EscapeFlyer -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (5/19/2012 7:26 PM)

I have the original cowl and wheelpants for this kit in its original packing if anyone is interested.

Let me know. I wouldn't mind working something out!

Brian





mikmerl -> RE: Goldberg Extra 300 (7/31/2012 5:55 PM)

Hello all,
I know that this is an anciant thread but I hope that there are still some ears open.

I am currently getting into flying condition my old/forgotten models that have been rotting in storage.

Currently I am rebuilding a crashed Goldberg Ultimate Bipe which is well on its way and will soon turn my attention to a mostly built Goldberg Extra 300 that I strated to build 20 years ago and left unfinished.

Most all of the wood construction is completed and I have a fiberglass cowl and alu landing gear.

What I have lost is the plans and I was hoping that there are scanned PDF plans available so that I may get this old bird into the air.

mike



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