RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (Full Version)

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Spacey -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (3/30/2005 6:55:09 AM)

By the way I am also curious to hear where other people have the CG at to compare to mine. Who knows maybe I can go back alot more and still be safe.



rc4me2 -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (3/30/2005 3:33:46 PM)

Spacey,

I just downloaded your "doink" video[:D]. Heck, if you were flying off grass there wouldn't have been any damage at all.

I checked my CG and it is at 1" (2.54 cm) behind the spar which is about where yours is. I moved it back progressively to this point during the three flights yesterday in less than ideal conditions. The flying characteristics improved each time I moved it back. It feels close, but still a little toward the nose.

My knife-edge coupling is minimal as well. It wants to roll in the direction of rudder deflection (roll-out). I'll be able to mix it out with less than 5% I'm sure. Pitch coupling is neutral right now and will change with CG so I'll leave that alone for now.

JC

My "not as pretty as Spacey's" KatanaP: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/OMP_KatanaP_Kit_Build-Along_Thread!/m_2221034/tm.htm



Spacey -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (3/31/2005 8:52:11 AM)

Well I am avoiding inverted rudder drags for now as clearly it's a sure way to stuff up a perfectly good model. By gosh I can't remember the last time I did a tailtap [:D] I am telling myself now that their ment to be flying and nothing more.

I am not going to mess with my CG too much from here. Maybe nudge it back another 1/4" but only if shifting of radio gear will allow that. I am not really keen on adding lead anywhere. My knife edge coupling is very little and I can't even tell which way I am compensating if that gives you an idea of how little so there's really no need I can see to try and improve on that. I would like to get the pinwheels and waterfalls tighter just for kicks so that might motivate a CG change. Also I would like to get it to flatspin upright a little better but I'm not too sure if CG is my main cause of that minor problem. If memory serves I do still require a tiny bit of down elevator to hold straight and level when inverted so I am guessing there is room for improvement.



rc4me2 -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/1/2005 1:20:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacey

I am telling myself now that their meant to be flying and nothing more.



You are right on that point. Kudos for flying to the edge so soon. You don't get any better if you don't push yourself. I want to get at least a dozen flights on mine before I start getting nuts with it[:D].

BTW, who is the group that did the music for the spaceykat video?

JC



Spacey -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/1/2005 7:26:44 AM)

Yea I should try and tie myself down a bit now, I'm going to start breaking planes soon and that is the last thing I can afford. Although I am rather motivated to go after the low altitude rolling harriers. I really don't want to be as good as Kyle in that Funtana S90 video in the 3D forums but if I can just get them a littel more controlled and to about eye level height the adrenalin should add a couple of years to my heart. [:D]

If the music hasn't been changed then it would still be the JayZ and Linkin Park song. I did ask Dion from OMP to see if he can think of a better song but that is the last one that was on it. I haven't downloaded the video from OMP's homepage to see if it's still the same. I trust Dion's judgement if it has changed.



Murdoc -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/2/2005 6:00:20 PM)

you are a hell of a good pilot spacey!!
I just started to build my first profile plane with an os 25 and a 10x3 prop!



Spacey -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/4/2005 8:33:11 AM)

Colibri thank you but yes I am glad you used the word good. I do not really think I can even start to consider talking to the big boys yet. [:D] [:D] I've seen people really wring out a profile in videos doing stuff I do not even start thinking about yet.

Good luck with the little .25 size. I hope it serves you well! [:)] I haven't had a glow smaller than my .40 sized planes. Leccys yes but nothing glow.



Murdoc -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/5/2005 11:38:48 AM)

Thanks [:D]
my little profile is now ready for maiden flight.... but i have problems with the os 25 la, it usually starts on the first flick but i think the glow plug is a little to hot and the nearest hobby shop is 4 hour away....



rc4me2 -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/5/2005 4:30:24 PM)

Hey fellow profile flyers,

The weather has finally broke here in Michigan and I got some serious air-time on my OMP KatanaP yesterday.

I think that I have the CG where I want it. It is about 1.375 inches behind the spar. I tend to prefer a more rearward CG then some. I would not recommend that CG for any first flights.

The knife edge had a bit of coupling with a tendency to roll in the direction of the rudder (roll out). I easily mixed that out with about 10% on one side and 15% on the other. Pitch coupling in knife edge is minimal and I have not even tried to mix it out yet. The knife edge doesn't change much as the angle of attack changes. So once you get KE, you can crank it to a high-alpha KE without introducing any odd coupling. It is now easily the best knife-edging slimer that I have flown.

I did a lot of experimenting with harrier or high-alpha (HA) flight. All of my experience has been with foamies so far so this is new. Once I had the CG where I wanted it I started playing with HA. As Spacey said, you have to play with it to get it into HA. My airplane has a tendency to start a wing rock. It is a slow rock, and is stable - i.e. does not grow in magnitude. I experimented with reflex mix on the ailerons up to 30%. The results were pretty much the same. It will do a stable HA, but some perterbation (rudder input, wind gust) will start the wing rock oscillation. The rocking can be damped out with small rudder/aileron inputs to again reach a stable HA, but I am just gaining experience with that. So the upshot is that you have to fly the airplane [:D].

The airplane does a great snap for a profile. My Giant Su-do-Khoi lacked in this area by flying around the snap or doing a spiral - same with the ucando. This airplane really does snap. The OS .46 FX with Tower Muffler provides enough power here at sea level to do great chains of vertical snap rolls.

I got comfortable enough with the airplane to bring it down for some torque-roll (TR) action. It is very stable hanging from the prop and very responsive. Again, all of my TR experience has been with foamies - which I do in my living room when bored [;)]. I have never been comfortable with my UCD in TR or low TR. The KatanaP is responsive enough to get you back on line without having to punch out. I would have brought it down more except that, here is the wild part, it reverse torque rolls[X(]. Yep, it would rotate in the direction of the prop rotation. This totally freaked me out since I have about a million torque rolls to the left and one or two to the right. I had to hold left aileron to give me the feel that I was used to. I can't explain this, since my airplane is completely square - no assymmetrical surfaces, etc. The only thought I have is that my engine is shimmed for a bit of right off-set. I'll take that out and see if that helps.

Well, that is my experience so far. Hope this helps with your setup. Please share your experiences as well.

JC



Spacey -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/6/2005 8:49:18 AM)

Hehehehe the dreaded anti torque roll ey? My Profile Gee Bee from great planes used to do that. As a matter a fact apart from barely hovering it refused to torque roll in the right direction. Very strange feeling I have to admit. My Katana has also done this before but only for 2 or 3 rolls and you can actually very clearly see that it is busy falling out and that causes the wrong direction roll from my experience. It could very well be that you are just falling out backwards or something. Also yes maybe the right thrust is a little bit too much. Hard to say. Have you checked which rudder you are holding when hovering?

You are right about the upright harrier part. It's very stable but you have to spoon feed it just a little bit with rudder and aileron to keep it from wingrocking. Over control and you have a guarenteed chance of a splat. Just small nudges of rudder usually gets mine locked in very quick and easy.

I am glad you got the knife edge down, the plane is a blast to KE...HA or just normal. Mine also does some nice predictable ratched and slow rolls. Great fun.



Woody218-RCU -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/6/2005 12:47:48 PM)

I've found with my Kat that I have to keep inputting elevator when it gets to the wing rocking stage, once you are past that, it locks into a nice Harrier. I have my cg at 5.5", or 140 mm for you metric guys.

Spacey, what engine are you running on yours?



Spacey -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/6/2005 1:26:07 PM)

Hey Woody! Howz things?

Well ok 140 is a good ways back from where I am. I guess another 1/2" wouldn't kill, so I might as well try it. Come to think of it the bird does seem to settle a little better at the higher angles of attack when upright. The transition can be tricky if the plane where in the hands of a newby I guess. I have to admit though I haven't had any problems with a wingrock on mine. Guess I might have a natural tendency to just fly it through it. I'll check out for it next time and see if I can find a easy solution.

I have a OS .46FX with a tower muffler on mine now. Swinging an APC 12.25X3.75 prop. And I run 15% morgan fuel green. I think the morgan is basically Coolpower. I'm not sure though.



depfife -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/6/2005 2:01:23 PM)

http://www.morganfuel.com/

Morgan Fuel is the name of the company that makes CoolPower.

I have used Morgan fuel for many years and love their products, but I have to wonder what quirk of commerce allows it to make sense to ship fuel from Alabama USA, to Petoria, South Africa.

Eric



rc4me2 -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/6/2005 3:19:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacey

Have you checked which rudder you are holding when hovering?



Hello Spacey,

The TR is very stable and pleasantly responsive - plenty of authority to keep it vertical. I was nudging up elevator and right rudder most of the time - which is what I consider normal. Too windy to test fly the new thrustline yesterday.

JC



Spacey -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (4/7/2005 8:07:59 AM)

Ok well someone could jump in here and correct me if I am wrong but if you are holding in right rudder it means that you still require a slight bit more of right thrust to hold vertical in a hover? And well yes like you said this is normal as mine is the same. It is a very slight bit of rudder anyhow. I prefer to have it track straight when at full throttle in the vertical uplines. So yes if that is the case I would think that your right thrust is pretty close and I wouldn't bother too much with that. Then on that note why not consider the TR in the wrong direction to be a neat party trick [:D]
I know I do! Hehehehe



Super D -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (6/6/2005 5:51:32 AM)

I have a Katana GS, Does anyone know the major differences in the Katana P versus the Kat GS. I flew mine today but the CG was bad nose heavy. I had my CG at the manual's suggestion 100mm( mine was 105). Before I move my CG to far I just wanted to see if the P is same as the GS. I'm sure I could move the CG back 1in, I just dont want lots of holes in my motor mount.

Good ARF but the instructions were'nt great, and the tail wheel is a complete joke. My tailwheel came off on the 1st takeoff. The sullivan tail wheel should fix that though. Landing gear is very soft aluminum. I know it sounds bad but my CG was way off so Let me fix that then I can give a honest opinion of the way it flys.

BTW I have a OS 46 AX with a 12x4 apc on it. 12x6 was too fast,and a 13x4 was too much for the 46AX. I think and hope this plane will out perform my H9 Twist. I would love to put a YS 63 on this bird but from what a hear/read it will vibrate the heck out of it. The OS works fine i just wanted to be able to prop to a 14x4.



Woody218-RCU -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (6/6/2005 12:44:49 PM)

You need to get the cg back to at least 135 mm from the leading edge.



rc4me2 -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (6/6/2005 3:27:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Super D
BTW I have a OS 46 AX with a 12x4 apc on it. 12x6 was too fast,and a 13x4 was too much for the 46AX. I think and hope this plane will out perform my H9 Twist. I would love to put a YS 63 on this bird but from what a hear/read it will vibrate the heck out of it. The OS works fine i just wanted to be able to prop to a 14x4.


I have the Katana kit. It has a 46" wingspan and different wing design than the Accel Katana.

I run a 12.25x3.75 APC prop and it works better than a wood 12x4. Adequate pitch speed and excellent static thrust. I also used the Tower Hobbies .46 muffler. It is an excellent hop-up for $15.00.

JC



STLPilot -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (6/6/2005 8:01:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Super D

Does anyone know the major differences in the Katana P versus the Kat GS.



Are you talking about the OMP Katana P or the Accel Katana P.



Super D -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (6/6/2005 8:14:29 PM)

My instructions say Accel hobby. Looks the same as the OMP? Winging span is 48".
A buddy of mine had it and he said he'd never build it so I gave him $60 for it.



STLPilot -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (6/6/2005 8:22:20 PM)

The OMP Katana and Accel Katana are much different in shape. The OMP Katana has more of a scale shape. Also the wing shape is slightly thinner on the OMP Katana. They are both good planes, but they do act a little different.

The OMP Katana ARF will be available at a later date ... but we have plenty of kits now.



rc4me2 -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (6/6/2005 9:31:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Super D

My instructions say Accel hobby. Looks the same as the OMP? Winging span is 48".
A buddy of mine had it and he said he'd never build it so I gave him $60 for it.


I wish I had friends like that![:D]

JC



Spacey -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (8/3/2005 3:23:47 PM)

Thought I'd let all the folks know my bird is still alive and kickin! We were out of town the past weekend for a rather large Fly-In and here's a couple of shots taking during the event. I have some more around I just can't find the little buggers right now. More to follow tomorrow! [:D]



Spacey -> RE: HEY! Lets build another Katana kit! (8/5/2005 10:10:05 AM)

More pics! Sorry I didn't know where else the shocky pic should go and thought it might as well just fall in here. It's also a profile right? My favourite picture of the batch is the rolling harrier shot. Came out really nice I reckon! Enjoy! [:)]



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