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How About This... - 12/21/2004 11:02 AM   
BiplaneCrasher


 

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Status: offline 		I am not aware if this has been done yet or talked about even, but here we go....

I think that helis are not the best way to go for high altitude photograghy. Planks would be the way. We have only to worry about vibration and stability for clarity in the photo. Useing a fueled engine is not a good idea beacause of vibration, so we choose to go to electric motors, that is what I will be doing anyway.

Here is the idea. Has it been done? What is the possiblity of useing a tow behind camera platform, that flies completely under gyro control (such as the CARVEC System, or CoPilot) and have a separate radio to break away and control the tow behind in the event of a tow plane faliure?

The benifits would be:

Little or negligable vibration - You have no engine
Increased payload - You have no engine or fuel
Higher Altitude with electric motor

The "autopilot" would be able to control the level flight of the tow behind platform leaving the camera op to be free to concentrate on taking video or photos while the lead plane pilot is positioning the tow behind as per the photogragher's comands. I would imagine you would have to disable the rudder gyro feature (if it has one, CARVEC does) so it does not counter-steer.

Just brainstorming, what do you think?

< Message edited by Flight47.Com -- 12/21/2004 11:04 AM >

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RE: How About This... - 12/21/2004 12:51 PM   
aaron2874



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Status: offline 		I would just use a high-wing trainer with an electric motor. You can start and stop the motor at will and the plane will glide nicely while taking those pics and video.

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RE: How About This... - 12/21/2004 3:19 PM   
4 stroken ron



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Status: offline 		Hey mole, I like your idea a lot. Coincidently I have been thinking the same thing. I think a Kadet senior with something like a Saito 100/ 4 stroke would be a great tow plane. plenty of power to get you up there, but not so fast as to over speed the sailplane. Tow planes to lunch sailplanes is nothing new. RC guys have been doing it successfully for years. I don't know if your idea of the of the CoPilot has been used before, but I like it a lot, I think that would work. What are your thoughts on the sailplane? I have only had 1 sailplane it was the ARF Spectra from Great Planes. It only used a six cell 1800 pack. I bought a 550 motor and folding prop from New Creation, but it still wasn't much. But maybe if I got it way up with the tow. the electric might maintain it for awhile. But maybe not with the added wait of my AIPTEX 1.3SD. Thats the camera I am using now. How about this? No power at all in the sailplane? Just get high on tow and release fly it as a regular sailplane. Nice and lite, much smaller (less expense radio) Just glide it home and land.
Thats some of my ideas.
I am still kind of bummed out that I can't strap my Aiptex to the side of a Senior with a good glow , or small gas motor and go take pictures.
BTW How's things on MARS
Ron

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RE: How About This... - 12/21/2004 8:31 PM   
BiplaneCrasher


 

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Status: offline 		You know I forgot thatyou can restart an electric while in flight...Duh!

I think that putting the CARVEC system in the plane would be fine. I was just thinking about redundency, and also to involve my son.

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RE: How About This... - 12/21/2004 8:52 PM   
Tall Paul



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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4 stroken ron

Hey mole, I like your idea a lot. Coincidently I have been thinking the same thing. I think a Kadet senior with something like a Saito 100/ 4 stroke would be a great tow plane. plenty of power to get you up there, but not so fast as to over speed the sailplane. Tow planes to lunch sailplanes is nothing new. RC guys have been doing it successfully for years. I don't know if your idea of the of the CoPilot has been used before, but I like it a lot, I think that would work. What are your thoughts on the sailplane? I have only had 1 sailplane it was the ARF Spectra from Great Planes. It only used a six cell 1800 pack. I bought a 550 motor and folding prop from New Creation, but it still wasn't much. But maybe if I got it way up with the tow. the electric might maintain it for awhile. But maybe not with the added wait of my AIPTEX 1.3SD. Thats the camera I am using now. How about this? No power at all in the sailplane? Just get high on tow and release fly it as a regular sailplane. Nice and lite, much smaller (less expense radio) Just glide it home and land.
Thats some of my ideas.
I am still kind of bummed out that I can't strap my Aiptex to the side of a Senior with a good glow , or small gas motor and go take pictures.
BTW How's things on MARS
Ron

.
???
Sure you can!
Just keep it on the drier side...
The pod on the wing on the Senior in the first image has a Casio Exilim 3.2M camera on a tilting mount that can point the camera anywhere from directly down to directly sideways in flight.
The wing-mounted forward looking camera is a Canon ELPH-lT.
There's an Aiptek 1.3SD mounted outside on the Senior, and the Casio gumbanded to the belly of the Seniorita (electric powered so there's no mung on the lens.)

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< Message edited by Tall Paul -- 12/21/2004 8:55 PM >

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 1:56 AM   
randall1959



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Status: offline 		With modern power systems an electric kadet senior would be a great camera platform. In a light wind they'll glide for a long long time in the summer.

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 3:17 AM   
Gravityisnotmyfriend



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Status: offline 		Great idea. But if you're using a sailplane, it shouldn't matter what powersource the towplane has. I could be wrong, but I doubt any of the vibrations from a glow or gas engine would be transmitted to the sailplane through the towline. I would love to see an onboard video of a sailplane getting towed to altitude, releasing and gliding back down.

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 3:23 AM   
randall1959



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Status: offline 		But I think the guy was wanting to get vibration free av. In that case he'll need a powerplant to keep it aloft.

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 4:29 AM   
4 stroken ron



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Status: offline 		At this point I am just looking for some higher altitude Photos from my AIPTEX 1.3 SD. Someday I might want AV, but not now. I have been using a SLOW STICK, but I don't like it, and I refuse to buy $300 worth of brushless motor, speed control and batteries for an AP I don't like. I want to use a slimmer or gas. I have flow slimmers and gas for a long time and I like them. I was very glad to hear from Tall Paul. That gives me some inspiration to try my slimmers. I have an old Kadet Mk. II out in the garage, it just might get some new life carrying my little AIPTEX. I need to find some vibration absorbing material. I hear that Dr, Scholls gell shoe cushions work well. I might check that out.
Tall Paul, do you shot photos with your AIPTEX with your motor running? I have heard of some fellas run there slimmer till they get to altitude and then shut it off and glide to shot pics. I don't want to do that.
Thanks, Ron

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 10:26 AM   
BiplaneCrasher


 

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Status: offline 		The reason for requireing a separate platform, if I did not make it clear was increased payload in conjunction with vibration damping. The aiptek cameras are good for farting around, but I am thinking a decent semi-pro video camera, or a nice filmed still camera. Wide open aperature for the best photos. Thus requiring vibration damping to avoid blurring. I to have a farting around camera, the Blackwidow system.

As for the tow planes' power/vibration. You are right about that. It will not matter, because it is separated. I just prefer electric. I have heli's and planks with both gas and nitro and I love both, but I am tired of the smell. I will still have a YS110FZ in my Ultra Stick, but I am electrying my Cub and what ever else comes along, including my Bergen Intrepid.

The electric motors (depending on your style) are priced for what they are. You can get a Hacker, Jeti or Actro, sized for what ever you need and you get what you pay for. It seems (Ron) that you like low and slow. But you are also a four-stroke man. If you saw my US60 climb staight up efortlessly you would buy a YS over a Saito any day. But the Hacker's will do it also with no mess and have even better power to wieght ratio. Maybe the Ultra Stick will also become electric one day. My issue with electric is the Lipo's, I will not go that way. You only loose a few, or less than two ounces over NiMH so the cost is not worth the trouble or danger.

Ultra Stick 60 - YS110 FZ Nitro (Maybe Electric)
Super Cub - Roto 35 Gasser (Going to Electric)
Bergen Intrepid - G-23 Gasser (Going to Electric)
Raptor30 - Pro.39 (Awaiting it's expiration date no future plans, it's the "Ford Pinto" of my fleet)
YS63FZ (No future plans)

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 10:30 AM   
BiplaneCrasher


 

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Status: offline 		Ron, do you have the address online for that switch for the aiptek? and will it work on a FUGI Fine Pix?

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 2:48 PM   
randall1959



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Status: offline 		I pad my aiptek with that white receiver foam that dubro sells and it works very well. I've also found that with a glow plane, to do my AP at around half throttle. At idle everything bounces around and at full throttle it vibrates, but at half everything sort of resonates and quits shaking and vibrating. You just have to do some experimenting but you'll find the "sweet spot" and you'll be much more impressed.


This photo was taken with my aiptek. It's on a kadet senior with TT61 Pro.

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< Message edited by randall1959 -- 12/22/2004 2:50 PM >

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 2:51 PM   
4 stroken ron



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Status: offline 		Flight 47.com, If you go to the other group, I am not sure if they will let me post the name here. (RC Groups. com) and do a search for ZAGIRULE I am sure you will find him. I think he is still producing switches for several different cameras. If you do a search in the ARIALPHOTOGARPHY forum you will find lots of pictures of his switch and installations. I even posted a lot of pictures of my own APITEX installation if you go back far enough, search for (4 stroken ron) . I would post the pictures here but I lost them in a computer melt down awhile back.
Ron

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 3:01 PM   
4 stroken ron



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ORIGINAL: randall1959

I pad my aiptek with that white receiver foam that dubro sells and it works very well. I've also found that with a glow plane, to do my AP at around half throttle. At idle everything bounces around and at full throttle it vibrates, but at half everything sort of resonates and quits shaking and vibrating. You just have to do some experimenting but you'll find the "sweet spot" and you'll be much more impressed.


This photo was taken with my aiptek. It's on a kadet senior with TT61 Pro.


That is great, This is what I wanted to hear, and see. I like that picture, that is the same thing I want to do. I might even reconize that town. I used to haul cattle feed mixing ingredence in grain trailers from corn processing mills here in Iowa, down to feed mills and small town elevetors in Mo and southern Ks.

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 3:06 PM   
4 stroken ron



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Status: offline 		Randall, What is the advantage of the top mounted engine and camera mount between the legs? It looks as if this is a multi functional airframe. Is that part of the reason?
Ron

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 3:39 PM   
randall1959



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Status: offline 		The advantage of having the engine above that wing is that it frees up the nose for a forward looking video camera, and also keeps the mess up and behind everything. The digital camera isn't exactly between the gear legs. It's behind the cowling and in front of the gear to provide obstacle free side shots. The Aiptek camera is mounted on a U shaped bracket, which is bolted to a flat piece of wood. Under the wood is a quarter inch thick pad of receiver foam, which really knocks down those wavy lines from vibration.

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 3:55 PM   
4 stroken ron



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Status: offline 		OK that pictures shows things a lot better. Great looking rig. Does the Senior handle much different with engine mounted up there?
I was just at your web site and looked at your vid form the AP. I liked it, what type of vid camera was that? Is that some kind of a SPAD plane?
Ron

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 4:54 PM   
patrickegan



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Status: offline 		You can do all of that or you could just get a slow stick fab up a little wood mount and away you go.

Or you can check out www.rcapa.net

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 5:00 PM   
Tall Paul



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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4 stroken ron

At this point I am just looking for some higher altitude Photos from my AIPTEX 1.3 SD. Someday I might want AV, but not now. I have been using a SLOW STICK, but I don't like it, and I refuse to buy $300 worth of brushless motor, speed control and batteries for an AP I don't like. I want to use a slimmer or gas. I have flow slimmers and gas for a long time and I like them. I was very glad to hear from Tall Paul. That gives me some inspiration to try my slimmers. I have an old Kadet Mk. II out in the garage, it just might get some new life carrying my little AIPTEX. I need to find some vibration absorbing material. I hear that Dr, Scholls gell shoe cushions work well. I might check that out.
Tall Paul, do you shot photos with your AIPTEX with your motor running? I have heard of some fellas run there slimmer till they get to altitude and then shut it off and glide to shot pics. I don't want to do that.
Thanks, Ron

.
Ron, I keep the motor running on the slimers, while turning it off at times on the electrics.
I'd like to go brushless and Li-poly, but can't justify the serious expense.
The Aiptek is particularly susceptible to wavy image due to motion between the lens and the imager chip during an exposure, so vibration isolation is important with that camera.
Other cameras seem to be immune, my Casio Exilim shows zero effect from vibration.
Fortunately it's all just 1's and 0's, which are economically painless to toss out, while a paper print is an investment. Digital images are so easy to get, evaluate and keep/toss.. I've taken over 2000 digital pictures this year, which would be an enormous expense to process were they film/print.
This is #2201 from the Exilim.... the more megapixels, the better..

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 5:07 PM   
randall1959



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Status: offline 		That's exactly why I went digital this year. I've been down the 35mm route and it was a hassle having to go to the photolab and have the pics developed just to find out I'd missed the whole darned thing I'm hoping santa thinks I've been a good boy this year and brings me a laptop so I can do this truly mobile I like digital because of the ideas expressed and also the ability to edit the images easily. Almost everyone has a computer these days and it's no big deal to burn a cd and allow whoever has the pics to edit or do whatever they want with them.

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 9:44 PM   
4 stroken ron



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ORIGINAL: patrickegan

You can do all of that or you could just get a slow stick fab up a little wood mount and away you go.

Or you can check out www.rcapa.net


Ya well, except you probably have close to $300 worth of brushless motor, speed control, Lipo batteries in that SS and who knows how many $ of test equipment and chargers. I am not willing to spend any more on a plane I don't like. I have a SS with a long can 400 in a GWS D box with a CC Pixie 20 speed control 8 cell ZAGI 1700 mil battery packs a whole bunch of different gear ratios and props. Even though I have taken a lot of pictures with it, I don't like it. I have run slimmers and gassers for years and that is how I want to take digital pictures, and from what I have learned here I think I can do it.
Ron

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 9:52 PM   
randall1959



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Status: offline 		A forty size trainer with a 46 and 11X4 apc prop would be a good start. If you just want to get your feet wet, get the vivitar 3350 digital and power it from your receiver with a cut usb lead. Then all you need is a servo to hook into your gear channel and for about 300 dollars total you could have a starting AP platform.

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 10:41 PM   
BiplaneCrasher


 

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Status: offline 		Randall,

Please explain the USB cable. I fiquered out how to run the Blackwidow camera by using servo leads and using the BW system to see what is in the viewfinder of the camera by using the video out. How would I run the FugiFinePix with a cut USB cable. I would enjoy the fact that the camera does not go into power-save mode. On that camera the feature is undefeatable.

Do you have a schematic?

< Message edited by Flight47.Com -- 12/22/2004 10:42 PM >

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 10:41 PM   
SeacretsOceanCity



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Status: offline 		randall1959 Thats the route I am going now ARF SENIOR Kadet but brushless AXI 2826/12 with 40 amp esc I have a mini DV panasonic and a digital camara to haul same time

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RE: How About This... - 12/22/2004 10:43 PM   
randall1959



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Status: offline 		I don't know about any of the fuji cameras. I have just read that only the vitvitar and a couple of the aipteks will do that. The only other thing I could tell you is to get a camera that has a defeatable auto off in it's menu. A Mustek DV 4000 camera has that feature and some of the high end cameras do as well. I think it's a feature normally reserved for cameras with rechargable batteries.

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