RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even)

RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even)
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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/28/2004 1:44:51 PM

Cyclic Hardover

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Joined: 5/7/2002
From: New Mexico, USA
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Hope you don't get mad at me for my theory but it just does not sound right. On your initial thread you said that you "Now have a pump on it" and "This use to be one of my most reliable engines." This tells me it was running good at one time, then started to stray on you and you have been trying to fix it ever since. If so, then whatever is causing this is still going on and has nothing to do with the pump or anything else your adding to it and will not will it fix it. It's like finding that leak in a roof where your repairing the mess its making but until you find where the hole is, it will still leak.

Generally overheating is caused by an air leak somewhere but other mechaincal things can cause it too. Your tank location is no big deal either being right behind the fire wall and not 12 inches away. Is there any crap in the muffler pressure nipple? Large fuel tubing, rotating spray bars, Pumps are nice and efficient but always seem to appear when problems arise and may help but are only masking the orignal problem. Let us know after your flight without the cowl.

< Message edited by Snoop Doggy Bag -- 12/28/2004 1:56:20 PM >

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/28/2004 1:53:59 PM

PlaneKrazee

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From: Westerly, RI, USA
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Snoop,

I think it sounds like his engine is lean and when he gets it in the air it is leaning out more and quiting.

What caused the first liner to go bad?

< Message edited by Skypilot_one -- 12/28/2004 1:54:43 PM >

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/28/2004 2:55:00 PM

fredycompean

Posts: 215
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Santa CatarinaNuevo Leon, MEXICO
Status: offline

I have the same engine. Not yet installed the perry pump, but here's how it's running.

altitude 6500ft ASL
Plane, Quiques YAK 54 72"
prop APC 18X8
OS 8 Glow Plug
fuel Byron 15% nitro
High needle setting 2 3/4 out
temperature ≈ 50 F (10º C)
max RPM on horizontal 8500
max RPM on vertical 8200

My question is why does it loose rpms on vertical?

I have tried every setting on both the low and high needles. I came to ask and someone said that I was leaning out on the high needle, but I richend it recovering a little RPM, but the max it gave was 8200 which is still 300 less than on the horizontal.

Mind I saying that at 6500 ft you want all the power you can get. I have the pump, but not sure if to put it on.

Thanks in advance

< Message edited by fredycompean -- 12/28/2004 3:10:46 PM >

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/28/2004 3:20:18 PM

PlaneKrazee

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From: Westerly, RI, USA
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Fredy,

Do you mean that if you hold the plane vertical the rpm drops? What happens if you richen it a full turn and then lean it to max rpm again?

What muffler are you running? You can try running a uniflow system that has three lines, one to the carb on a clunk, one plugged used to vent the tank during fueling and another for muffler pressure on a clunk. Do a search for it. Also set up your engine with a half full tank of fuel

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/28/2004 4:46:25 PM

Schpankme

Posts: 267
Joined: 6/6/2004
From: Naperville, IL,
Status: offline

Perry Pump Installation – Diagram

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/28/2004 8:47:15 PM

dlucas48

Posts: 56
Joined: 11/14/2002
From: Crosby, TX, USA
Status: offline

Been a bit breezy today-not right for possible deadsticks. I will spend the time to work on the cowl, by blocking and opening. When I say it was reliable, I mean that it kept running till I stopped it. I could tell it was leaning out as the fuel level dropped, but with a 20 oz tank I flew for 12-13 minutes and had a good 1/4 tank left, therefore not leaning out as much as it might have. I tried everything before getting the pump, because I knew it would add more unknowns to the mix. I had two clunks hooked up in parallel all the way up to the carb and a check valve in the muffler-to-tank line. It was an improvement, and did fine on my Lanier Edge. That cowling and the one on the Katana seemed to have the same cut-outs, but that was subjective, obviously. The planes are pretty close in weight and drag, the main difference must tbe the cooling ability of the cowls. I do think it is overheating now. I also bought a Sullivan stopper w/1 large and 2 reg size tubes. I was going to run the large line to the carb and also keep the check valve on the muffler line, but the more I read, the pump seemed the way to go. Thanks to all for the help, and I will update asap.

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Post #: 31

RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/28/2004 11:10:58 PM

Cyclic Hardover

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From: New Mexico, USA
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I am at 5000ft here in New mexico so I am not stranger to the poor performance of engines . Being a 6500ft, your running a standard prop. Have you considered dropping down to a 18/7 or 6? Its a scenario we have to live with whether we like it or not. Your numbers and performance are going to be way off compared to most of those who live elsewhere. You have an approximate 18%power /speed loss being up this high. Shoot My G90 is only turning 10,200 with a 13/8 and a Jett 90 at 12,200 with a 12/7. This is the best it will do at this height.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fredycompean

I have the same engine. Not yet installed the perry pump, but here's how it's running.

altitude 6500ft ASL
Plane, Quiques YAK 54 72"
prop APC 18X8
OS 8 Glow Plug
fuel Byron 15% nitro
High needle setting 2 3/4 out
temperature ≈ 50 F (10º C)
max RPM on horizontal 8500
max RPM on vertical 8200

My question is why does it loose rpms on vertical?

I have tried every setting on both the low and high needles. I came to ask and someone said that I was leaning out on the high needle, but I richend it recovering a little RPM, but the max it gave was 8200 which is still 300 less than on the horizontal.

Mind I saying that at 6500 ft you want all the power you can get. I have the pump, but not sure if to put it on.

Thanks in advance

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Post #: 32

RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/28/2004 11:55:09 PM

Dan767

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Joined: 4/15/2003
From: Federal Way, WA, USA
Status: offline

I went back and looked at the picture of you install. I can't see the muffler pressure nipple...did you route a pressure line back to the tank? I would.....

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/29/2004 2:52:15 AM

JoeAirPort

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Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Status: offline

I don't have many of the things in that diagram and my Moki 1.80 runs great. I didn't put in the bypass line in the fuel supply to the carb. I also did not put a pressure line from the exhaust to the tank. Why would you need that when you already have crank case pressure to the pump itself? Sounds redundant.

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/29/2004 3:24:32 AM

fredycompean

Posts: 215
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Santa CatarinaNuevo Leon, MEXICO
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well, but for example, on that graph that Schpankme posted on post 12, you see that with none of the props there should you reach more than 8400rpm. Does that mean that you shouldn't go passed that even if you find a way to???

< Message edited by fredycompean -- 12/29/2004 5:15:17 AM >

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/29/2004 4:37:14 AM

Schpankme

Posts: 267
Joined: 6/6/2004
From: Naperville, IL,
Status: offline

fredy,

Here's a custom prop chart for your setup and elevation (7500'). Included is performance numbers for each prop shown in the chart, for evaluation purposes. Based on the props evaluated, it looks like you have selected the apporiate prop.

■ 19 x 6 @ 8600rpm ■ 49mph ■ 21lb static thrust

■ 18.5x7 @ 8450rpm ■ 56mph ■ 18lb static thrust

■ 18 x 8 @ 8400rpm ■ 64mph ■ 16lb static thrust

■ 17.5x9 @ 8400rpm ■ 71mph ■ 14.5lb static thrust

■ 17x10 @ 8400rpm ■ 79mph ■ 13lb static thrust

■ 19 x 7 @ 8200rpm ■ 54mph ■ 19lb static thrust

■ 18.5x8 @ 8100rpm ■ 61mph ■ 17lb static thrust

■ 18 x 9 @ 8100rpm ■ 69mph ■ 15lb static thrust

■ 17.5x10 @ 8100rpm ■ 77mph ■ 13.5lb static thrust

Note: mph is estimated for evaluation purposes

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/29/2004 5:16:40 AM

fredycompean

Posts: 215
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From: Santa CatarinaNuevo Leon, MEXICO
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yeah, but it's not really hanging like I would like to. I mean it would be very tight to hover. I'm sure there must be a way to make this plane hover at this altitude.

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/29/2004 7:05:16 AM

Schpankme

Posts: 267
Joined: 6/6/2004
From: Naperville, IL,
Status: offline

Fredy,

If you need more thrust you've got a few options:

■ Tuned Pipe
■ Reduce Weight (carbon parts, ect)
■ Larger prop (Diameter)
■ Less Pitch on Prop

I'd trade rpm for speed (mph) and use the 19x7 prop. Also, you might want to try a wood prop like the Menz-S, and see if you can increase thrust for the same rpm.

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/29/2004 11:12:26 AM

PlaneKrazee

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From: Westerly, RI, USA
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Fredy,

The APC 18X6 let's the engine spin up to 9200-9400 on the ground and the Mejzlik spins 20X6 about 7800-8200 depending on nitro. They both would be worth a shot for you. This engine runs well in the 9000-9400 rpm range but can also handle the larger props if baffles and proper needle settings are maintained. If you want a little more power use the larger ST4500 Bisson muffler, shorten and block off one outlet with a 5/8" i.d. pipe cap siliconed and screwed in place. The remaining pipe will exit nearly on the centerline.

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RE: OS 1.60 woes (with perry pump even) - 12/29/2004 2:40:35 PM

fredycompean

Posts: 215
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Santa CatarinaNuevo Leon, MEXICO
Status: offline

thanks for all this info. I'm definitley going to try many of the things here and let you know how it goes.

if according to the custom prop chart Schpankme posted, and the rpm I have meassured (8400rpm) I should be getting 16lbs of static thrust right. And if my plane weights around 11-13lbs, I should have no problem hovering it. I'm not feeling it does. Might my tacometers be unaccurate or whats the catch to this?

What are baffles??

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