RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (Full Version)

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suzonka -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (1/1/2006 11:37:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: estradajae

and my engines start instantly without nitro...

If the compresion is there its OK



pe reivers -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (1/4/2006 10:16:34 AM)

Recently, MVVS quickies were adapted to the US nitro craze.
Result:
They now run much shy of their potential when used in FAI events, where no nitro is allowed, unless the compression ratio is raised again.
Generalities:
A good engine does not need nitro, if the compression ratio is adjusted accordingly. There is ample proof of that in FAI racing.
In a less than good engine, bad design can be blanketed by nitro, sometimes lots of it is needed.
In two strokes, nitro helps to make carb setup uncritical, due to the wider combustion limits of nitro.
In four strokes, nitro helps a lot to get the engine ironed out over the whole rpm range.
More power can be had from a good engine at nitro over 20%, if the CR is adapted wisely.
(grammar edit)



suzonka -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (1/4/2006 12:06:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: preivers

Recently, MVVS quickies were adapted to the US nitro craze.
Result:
They now run much shy of their potential when used in FAI events, where no nitro is allowed, unless the compression ratio is raised again.
Generalities:
A good engine does not need nitro, if the compression ratio is adjusted accordingly. There is ample proof of that in FAI racing.
In a less good engine, bad design can blanketed by nitro, sometimes lots of it are needed.
In two strokes, nitro helps to make carb setup uncritical, due to the wider combustion limits of nitro.
In four strokes, nitro helps a lot to get the engine ironed out over the whole rpm range.
More power can be had from a good engine at nitro over 20%, if the CR is adapted wisely.
===============================================================Thanks for your information ,you really did your foot work and gave the most logical explanation above



loughbd -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/19/2006 7:13:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: suzonka

thanks again , so OS engines need some nitro


Actually most OS engines will run fine on FAI fuel. The four cycles like it for the idle. OS engines are used in many FAI contests and the only fuel allowed in FAI events is 0% nitro.



asmund -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/19/2006 8:16:51 AM)

my os 91 fx runs 11000 on the apc 13-8 on 15% nitro and 10800 on the same prop on 0% nitro. Easy starting and trottles fine no matter what.



suzonka -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/19/2006 8:56:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: asmund

my os 91 fx runs 11000 on the apc 13-8 on 15% nitro and 10800 on the same prop on 0% nitro. Easy starting and trottles fine no matter what.

VERY GOOD ONLY 200 rpm DIFFERENCE



speedster 1919 -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/28/2006 1:01:45 AM)

suzonka Nitro is a USA product made nowhere else in the world. It is cheap here for us in the USA ,so we are pigs about it. Where as castor oil is a little harder to get in the USA when it is made world wide. Most foreign flyers pay dearly for 5% or 10% nitro. You can buy 0% nitro and oil content is 100% synthetic but this is not true FAI fuel because some countries don't have good synthetic oil sources , but they have castor. So a world competition has to use true FAI fuel. The standard is 80% methanol and 20% castor oil. BTW methanol is made world wide also.



loughbd -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/28/2006 1:54:17 AM)

Don't know where you get your info but castor oil is easy to obtain in the US. Just walk into most good hobby shops and buy a quart of Sig bakers AA castor. Or mail order it from Sheldon's, Tower or any other mail order hous. FAI fuel does not have to be castor oil. The only stipulation is that it is 80/20 methanol and lubricant. I have been flying FAI events for years. I use 80/20 but the oil is 1/2 castor/synthetic

I buy Sig castor eveytime I make up a gallon of fuel for my Tartans. They use staight methanol and 8% oil.

We're pigs because we use nitro??? Speak for yourself. There are lots of things that you can only get in this country and just because we use them doesn't make us pigs. One of the benefits of living here.



Hobbsy -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/28/2006 9:46:38 PM)

Speeds is speaking figuratively not literally, but he's right though, we are pigs about it, there are very few engines that won't run fine on 5% or less nitro but we read every day about guys running 20, 25, or even 30% in their engines.
I have a Tartan 1.34 converted to Diesel, no numbers yet though.



Flyboy Dave -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/29/2006 1:59:35 AM)

Get the best castor in any motorcycle shop. If they don't have it, they
can get it the next time the "oil man" comes around. [;)]

FBD. [:D]



RaceCity -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/29/2006 2:53:38 AM)

Gee Dave...the race shops here seem to think folks are made of money. Benol? $9.00/PINT!!!!!

I get the nextest besterer bean oil (Bakers AA) for $7.99/qt at the LHS. Even cheaper by the gallon.




Flyboy Dave -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/29/2006 4:20:56 AM)

I hear ya' Race....the oil merchants are taking us to the cleaners. I've been
using Maxima 927....but it's like 10 bucks a quart. [X(] (and higher)

Back in the old days Castrol_R40 was like $2.50 a QT.

Lemme check on the Castrol.



Flyboy Dave -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/29/2006 4:37:13 AM)

Now I remember why I run Power Master 15% Sport fuel....

....it is 18% oil, with 1/3 of the content being of the beloved castor. [;)]

For the castor lovers....there is nothing better. [sm=thumbup.gif]

FBD.



loughbd -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/29/2006 5:21:37 AM)

There is no way a high compression low nitro engine can compete with a speed engine running with a high nitro content. Nitromethane contains Oxygen and is an oxidizer which generates heat and heat is power. That's WHY we use it. This has been proven over and over again in control line speed events and other events where all out speed is required. You will notice that FAI speed records are nowhere near AMA speed records for the same events. AMA events allow nitromethane and FAI do not. If a high compression engine running on Zero nitro would compete with a low compression high nitro engine we would use it. Why waste money and wear out expensive engines if you don't have too?? Because that's how you get POWER. The only reason the FAI (read that Europe) uses FAI fuel is that it is too expensive for the average modeler and it is easy to make sure everyone is handicapped by using the same fuel. I ran boats for years and the standard was about 40%. There was a noticable difference in power. I ended up using 15% because I figured I could make up for the lack of speed with driving skill. I could never beat the guys that were using hi nitro and were also GREAT drivers.

Race car drivers use the stuff too and there is no FAI restriction in the auto world



Sport_Pilot -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/29/2006 2:23:01 PM)

Fox sells it for about $20 a gallon. Morgans sells it for about $18 a gallon, but you have to buy a case.



RaceCity -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/29/2006 6:58:03 PM)

I dunno Dave...<GGG>

Powermaster is good, but their GMA blends are better for the TRUE bean lover in you.

Those are 50/50 with 22% oil. C/L fuel.

Then there's Sig Champion. That's another 50/50 fuel with 20% oil. Bakers & Klotz. The smell is heavenly.




downunder -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/30/2006 12:04:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: loughbd
FAI fuel does not have to be castor oil. The only stipulation is that it is 80/20 methanol and lubricant.

This is incorrect. FAI fuel is stipulated in the rules (Technical Regulations 4.1.3 is one instance) as being 80% methanol and 20% castor. This fuel is only used in a couple of FAI events, all other FAI events are basically unlimited in fuel mix or type of oil. I don't know what FAI events you fly but if it's not FAI Pylon (I assume you don't fly any CL or free flight) then you've possibly been flying at a disadvantage from not knowing the rules. I fly FAI CL stunt (in competitions) and I don't use nitro purely from choice. I also use castor but once again purely by choice. There's nothing to stop me using nitro or synthetics if I wanted to.



suzonka -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/30/2006 12:20:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: downunder

quote:

ORIGINAL: loughbd
FAI fuel does not have to be castor oil. The only stipulation is that it is 80/20 methanol and lubricant.

This is incorrect. FAI fuel is stipulated in the rules (Technical Regulations 4.1.3 is one instance) as being 80% methanol and 20% castor. This fuel is only used in a couple of FAI events, all other FAI events are basically unlimited in fuel mix or type of oil. I don't know what FAI events you fly but if it's not FAI Pylon (I assume you don't fly any CL or free flight) then you've possibly been flying at a disadvantage from not knowing the rules. I fly FAI CL stunt (in competitions) and I don't use nitro purely from choice. I also use castor but once again purely by choice. There's nothing to stop me using nitro or synthetics if I wanted to.
Do most the other pilots use the nitro ?



loughbd -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/30/2006 7:00:02 PM)

Let's see, the last time I checked "B" speed was a C/L event and FAI combat was a C?L event. I also fly Rat Race and AMA combat



loughbd -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/30/2006 7:06:39 PM)

Most other fliers use nitromethane in non FAI events. It's hard to FAI fuel at the average hobby shop. It doesn't sell. I buy it occasionally to mix 50/50 with a load of Cox fuel I acquired



downunder -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/31/2006 2:37:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: suzonka
Do most the other pilots use the nitro ?

Yes, most use a little, maybe 5% or so but I've just never found a need for it.



loughbd -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/31/2006 3:01:26 AM)

Maybe in Australia but here in the States most use 10 to 15 % nitromethane.



suzonka -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/31/2006 3:46:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: downunder

quote:

ORIGINAL: suzonka
Do most the other pilots use the nitro ?

Yes, most use a little, maybe 5% or so but I've just never found a need for it.

Yes they say the only reason any engine would need nitro is if it is worn out a bit or its a tiny 1/2A size .



loughbd -> RE: types of fuels claims on o%nitro?? (3/31/2006 6:44:41 AM)

I highly recommend you guys get a hold of two books. THE R/C Engine volIII by Clarence Lee chapter 5 on FUEL and Dave Gierke's book 2-STROKE GLOW ENGINES. They explain EXACTLY why nitro methane increases the power of a glow engine and HOW it does it.

Then for you technical or scientifically inclined get a copy of the handbook of engineering fundementals and read the chapters on fuels, heats of vaporization, heat energy of fuels, and air to fuel ratios. A Good college chemistry book has good info in it too. The Handbook of Chemistry and Physics has a great chapter on Fuels too.

NitroMethane greatly increases power of any glow engine and especially those timed correctly and designed for racing. This has been proven over and over again since the first use of glow engines back in 1947.


Edited by moderator to remove some content....



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