RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........

RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/6/2005 7:31:25 AM

J_R

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline

As I posted, I believe there is an opportunity to grow the AMA with the e-flyers. E-flyers may well be a way to grow the AMA more rapidly than the historical rate of 3%. On the other hand, I believe they should have little impact on the “traditional” AMA growth pattern. Something else has caused that. Previous dues increases have not done this kind of damage and there is no reason to believe the latest dues increase was to blame for the decline. Modeling is an area, that in other recessions, prospered, since it required less monetary outlay than many other activities it might compete against.

This is how I view the current situation. There are two ways that people enter the “park flyer” realm. I acknowledge that there are exceptions to every rule.

1. They spend a fairly small amount of money, generally well under $200 for the first park flyer, or receive it as a gift. Many will wind up in the trash, some will go on and learn to fly. Those that learn to fly continue on up the learning/spending curve and become accomplished e-flyers. The great majority of these pilots would not have entered the “traditional” world of RC on the basis of the initial monetary output alone.

2. A “traditional” IC flyer decides to see what electric is all about. He goes ahead and spends what is necessary. He is already an AMA member and, likely, a club member. He has a couple of IC planes and is not likely to drop out of the AMA or club… at least not right away. He has an investment in IC, both monetarily and emotionally. He is the guy most of us see at the club field. His car carries a foamy or two, and traditional RC aircraft or two.

In the case of flyer 1, the AMA has not lost him. It is impossible to lose something you never had. He is there and he represents an opportunity. In the case of flyer 2, he maintains his membership(s) and the AMA does not lose him. Certainly there are exceptions. I do not believe there are 15,000 exceptions.

(in reply to Jim Branaum)

Post #: 76

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/6/2005 3:45:21 PM

mr_matt

Posts: 6498
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: online

Here is a what if...

We know the size of the AMA, but we do not know the size of the market being served by the RC industry....let's say that is 500,000 people total.

That means 170K in the AMA and 330K ouside of it (roughly 2 to one).

So the 10% reduction in the AMA is only a 5% increase in the other market...that is not much, and from the looks of it, that market is EXPLODING, much higher than 5% per year rates.

Although I cannot prove it, I really believe a lot of people are dropping from IC, or are getting very deep in the hobby (spending thousands a year) and never buy any IC at all.

_____________________________

Matt
JetCat rep

(in reply to J_R)

Post #: 77

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/6/2005 4:19:01 PM

Jim Branaum

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline

Matt,
Your last observations is exactly the impression I have been getting from several different places. That makes the AMA ignoring the e flyer a critical missed opportunity. I am on several different e flight lists and forums and silently watch to learn what the heck is going on. One of the big things I have learned (the hard way) is that in most of those places he who talks about AMA is viewed as someone who is trying to bring the hog to the front row of the church.

Dr. H. Sanford Frank, District VII AMA VP used to make comments to the effect that flying was a social event. I used to agree because the flying friends get more of my time and concern than anything outside family and work. However, now I am now wondering if it is the same for everyone as the Dr. implies. I am beginning to suspect that e flyers don't fit that mold very well, and that may be one of the reasons that there is observable movement toward light electrics. That class of flight does not need a formal flying field and all the added onerous things that comes with it. I have seen lone e flyers all over the place, but wet birds seem to be strictly regulated by almost everyone.

We see some of that right here where folks rail on and on against clubs and the AMA. We constantly see where someone has gone to a club and was not welcomed in a way they expected. These are some of the people who probably wind up supporting e flight growth.

I am beginning to wonder. I am sure some folks in their attempt to manage people made some serious errors at clubs and we are beginning to see the back lash created by the AMA moving into the wrong corner and becoming a tool those managers used to beat folks up. It did not used to be that way and the biggest reason is that until e fligh blossomed, those who felt like targets kept their mouths shut as the solution. Somehow we (AMA) need to become what we used to be. An organization to promote the hobby rather than an organization to promote the organization.

_____________________________

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to mr_matt)

Post #: 78

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/6/2005 4:22:03 PM

YNOT

Posts: 2062
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Lake Jackson, TX, USA
Status: offline

Gee Dad, what did this start? LOL

What I do know, is we (RCU'ers) are a powerful voice. We need to use it. We almost got the other Dave elected as AMA prez. We should win next time.

I hope someone has clued their District VP onto this thread, I have. With the passion of many of these post, we owe it to the hobby to do what we can to help with a solution.

What is AMA doing to encourage the public to get into the hobby? Ohhh, the Grand Event. Only way to know about that is to read MA and/or live near Ontario, CA. Who reads MA? AMA members. Some of their beginner articals are a joke, because chances are, the person reading the artical already knows the info or found it out at the flying field or here on RCU 3 months ago. They have done the beginner issue, however it was not published for public release. It would have been great to see it on a magizine rack someplace.

AMA needs to educate and inform clubs and flying fields of what should be done with the park flyer people who come out. At many places, these people are run off for one reason or another. I have seen it and I have also run out to the parking lot to retrieve these people. I know AMA can not doing anything about ones personality, but AMA and the clubs owe it to themselves to look for new people. These people with the $100 Firebird are the future.

With several other orginizations, IMAA, IMAC,SCCA, THRC and ROAR you are able to join right then and there. Granted, these were for events or races, but if you were not a memeber, you could join then. AMA may need to look into some type of program allowing people to join at the flying site via a phone call to an automated system. I know I don't wanna have to collect money and send it off.

It all goes back to getting more people in the hobby. IMO, AMA has not done much.

quote:

ORIGINAL: J_R

tpes

Another point you have raised twice that I am curious about. Are you an AMA Intro Pilot, having been named by the club at Scobee field? If so, great. If not, and you are under the impression that you or your student are covered with AMA insurance, I suggest that you review the Club Recharter Kit, Page 10, Item A 5 which states: Any flying at the field on a “buddy-box” permits a non-AMA member (e.g. spectator, friend) to fly on a one time-per-person basis. NOTE: Liability insurance does not extend to the non-member for this model flight.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/2004clubkit.pdf

I am an Intro Pilot. In 2004 I taught 37 people how to fly R/C planes. Of that 37, 22 of them I personally got them into airplanes. They were already into R/C cars. I would fly my 3D foamy planes in between the races and got them interesed in planes. I put togther what I called "Fly Days" and invited them out to fly my sons NexStar. Most all of them now own planes and I required they join AMA even though we were flying at an Outlaw field. And once again, for 2005 I did not have to pay for membership due to the amount of referrals I sent in.

_____________________________

YNOT, Snap, Flip & Hover,
Tony D

(in reply to J_R)

Post #: 79

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/7/2005 11:50:18 AM

phuffstatler

Posts: 729
Joined: 8/19/2002
From: Robinson, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tpes

J R, you can quote chapter and verse all day long, but the truth be known, to 90% of the R/C fliers the AMA is only a necessary evil for the INSURANCE that allows them to fly at the flying field. Question? Would you be in the AMA today if it was not a requirement to fly at your local flying field? And if yes, why? Please tell me what the AMA has done specifically to improve your enjoyment of the hobby? They got us more frequencies back in the 90's making all of our equipment obsolete, that was a big help. Actually it was because it allows more people to fly at one time, but of course when was the last time you saw 40 airplanes in the air at the same time. Don't tell me a magazine, Kalmbach Publications and Carstens Publications seem to be doing a great job without the AMA. Sorry J R, it's the INSURANCE.
Ed Dupaquier

Actually, they got us the channels because the cell phone industry was trying to snatch it all up. Making the radio companies build better equipment has done nothing but make the radio more reliable, so that most times when a plane goes down, it's NOT from radio interference. Only because the AMA and all it's members went to the FCC did we protect our planes from splattering on the average phone call... And the 1991 rules didn't make older radios obsolete, but upgrades were needed. There's still a ton of those radios out there, and they all work better now as a result.

Yes, the insurance is cool, but I've never used it, and hope I never need it. I DO like the magazine, and while I don't like the fee growing every year, it's the cheapest insurance I've ever heard of. Would I still join if I didn't have to? You bet. It's the organisation behind it all, that lets me know what's going on, and it gives a basic set of rules that keeps most people happy and healthy.

phil in georgetown

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http://philhuffstatler.com
"I love the smell of glow fuel early in the morning..."

(in reply to tpes)

Post #: 80

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/7/2005 2:17:36 PM

Woody218-RCU

Posts: 387
Joined: 3/9/2002
From: Bismarck, ND, USA
Status: offline

The dynamic has changed, no doubt about it. Before the electric revolution, if someone wanted to get into rc flying, they had to buy a IC plane and all that goes with it, and they usually had to fly at an AMA sanctioned field. They were "forced" to join AMA.
All that has changed, but the "good old boys" in Muncie have not changed their thinking. As so may of you have stated, if someone buys an electric, they feel no need to join the AMA, they cannot justify spending $58.00 a year for something they see no benefit from. Also, a large number of heli fliers have written off the AMA because they are off flying at a non-sanctioned field, and they, too, see no benefit to joining an organization that they perceive to be a bunch of old fixed-wing farts.

Unless Dave Brown and the rest ofthe EC get their poop in a group, we will continue to see the AMA membership do a steady decline.

_____________________________

AMA #21855 - Pro Bro #1170

(in reply to phuffstatler)

Post #: 81

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/7/2005 3:11:12 PM

yard-dart

Posts: 925
Joined: 3/6/2002
From: West Monroe, LA, USA
Status: offline

Before people start jumping the gun, let's sit back and look at the situation. I, for one, never said that the RC flyer didn't need the AMA. I thank the AMA for getting channels secured for me to fly on. I thank them for giving scholarships to students. There are a few things I can think of right off the top of my head that the AMA does for people/modelers. The problem I'm seeing, along with others, is that the AMA has become a "monster". It has gotten too big, and too powerful. It's become political, way too political. It's become a "money" organization. Yes, it has, it has become money hungry, and everyone knows it. Muncie didn't "need" that nice new building! They EC "wanted" it! I feel quite positive that the old facility suited things just fine. Muncie didn't "need" that nice new corparate flying site. The EC "wanted" it! How many of us flyers will acutually use the site, or evert get the oportunity to fly at it? Probably never! Sure, it's there for us if we ever want to use it, but everyone knows that they'll never get the chance, because of personal reasons. So, yes, the AMA is money hungry! Look at all of those dollars that were spent, our dollars, on something we will never use. I think it's pretty sickening!

The AMA has left a bad taste in a lot of peoples' mouths. If they would have kept things the way they were, it wouldn't be as bad right now, as what it is. They need to get back to promoting the hobby. Use the money to help struggling clubs. Use the money to put in "small" regional facilities, secure ones that the area politicians and higher-ups can't shut down/run off.
Use the money to privide "different types of insurance", for people with different needs. Get rid of that god-awful magazine. Use the money they spend on that for more "important" things. There's tons of things I can sit and think of that they could do to cut back at the corparate level and focus on us, the modelers.

If they don't watch out, someone will cut their throat. Someone can, and will, come out with a better organization. If they'll straighten up, and focus on the basics, things will get back to normal. If they'll do that, we won't be voicing our negative opinions about them, like we are.

John

(in reply to phuffstatler)

Post #: 82

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/7/2005 3:17:52 PM

fliers1

Posts: 530
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Lockport, NY, USA
Status: offline

The problem seems to so well defined by so many, but and it's a big but, does anyone have any ideas for a definitive solution?

Word has it that the EC of the AMA has something worthwhile in the works in the solution department. Stay tuned.

CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

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www.abchobbyshop.com- information

(in reply to Woody218-RCU)

Post #: 83

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/7/2005 6:38:23 PM

Live Wire

Posts: 3739
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Sterling , CO, USA
Status: offline

I heard some where they were trying to buy an airport near Muncie

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Larry K AMA 36417
WACO Brotherhood #34

(in reply to fliers1)

Post #: 84

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/7/2005 8:05:52 PM

J3FAN

Posts: 283
Joined: 6/23/2003
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline

QUOD EST DEMONSTRANDUM - Q . E. D .

I found this posting elsewhere. It proves that I am not THE ONLY ONE.

We are going to be LEGIONS........this is why !

QUOTE :
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
I am going to sell my gas stuff and go electric. a couple different reasons. i think electric is easier without the fuel and the things that go along with fuel. but the main reason is the time and places to fly. i have belonged to a club locally. it is 30 min away from my house and it costs 75.00 to renew each year. i just dont have the time to get to the club with the kids and other commitments( a new baby this year too). it takes about 4 hours to go and get in maybe 5-6 flights. and that is if i dont stop and chat with the gang. its hard to not chat. and i can get to the field only 2 times a month. if i go electric i can drive to the park 5 min away and just fly. or maybe just throw the plane out the front door and fly for an hour a few times a week.

so here is my actual question. how big of a planes or how fast is too much for a "park flyer". i was looking at the 40" sportster they have at tower hobbies. i like the look of the balsa and covering. i also like that "clever boy" that is on this sites classified section. are those types of planes too much for parks in your opinion. i am also looking at not renewing my AMA membership if i dont join the local flying club. i just want to go and fly someplace quick and easy. thanks.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
find this original post in Park Flyers, " HOW BIG....etc "

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SMILE ! (make the world wonder what you're up to)

(in reply to YNOT)

Post #: 85

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/7/2005 8:33:23 PM

yard-dart

Posts: 925
Joined: 3/6/2002
From: West Monroe, LA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RC Outlaw

I heard some where they were trying to buy an airport near Muncie

You heard "WHO" was trying to buy an airport? I'd hope not the AMA! If they do, that's it! Enough is enough! While they're at it, why don't they just go ahead and buy the whole state of Indiana?

< Message edited by yard-dart -- 1/7/2005 8:44:01 PM >

(in reply to Live Wire)

Post #: 86

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/7/2005 10:36:04 PM

tailskid

Posts: 5464
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Tolleson, AZ, USA
Status: offline

....if given a chance......they just might

Jerry

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(in reply to yard-dart)

Post #: 87

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/8/2005 12:50:52 AM

abel_pranger

Posts: 2252
Joined: 5/7/2003
From: St Augustine, FL,
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: yard-dart

You heard "WHO" was trying to buy an airport? I'd hope not the AMA! If they do, that's it! Enough is enough! While they're at it, why don't they just go ahead and buy the whole state of Indiana?

Climb down from the ceiling YD, that news is pretty stale. AMA did have an option of some sort on adjacent (to the Muncie AMA complex) Reese Airport, so it was in somebody's past plan for empire, but a/o the last EC meeting the decision was made to drop that option. See the minutes on the AMA site.

Abel

(in reply to yard-dart)

Post #: 88

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 1/8/2005 1:42:36 AM