RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........

RE: Why the AMA is not growing...........
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RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 5/20/2005 6:36:15 PM

Jim Thomerson

Posts: 2792
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline

I think there is an old Chinese saying, "The journey to 200,000 members begins with realizing you have no clue."

Jim

(in reply to YNOT)

Post #: 126

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 5/20/2005 10:34:10 PM

Hossfly

Posts: 3777
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: YNOT

AT Joe Nall there was a Q&A with Dave Brown. He was asked about the park flyer invation and he has no clue of what to do OR what should be done. However, the AMA does want to have 200,000 members by 2006, but the AMA is unsure where to find the new members.

Classic.

Ideas ABOUND. Many ideas and plans have been presented here. You people simply have no will to do more than P & M.

YNOT, Brown has not had a clue for more members, other than making more restrictive rules which doesn't work, since he was a DVP.

As long as you people refuse to avail yourself of creating the possibilities of significant changes within the AMA, then nothing will ever change. Change can be good or bad, but when it's already really bad, what has one to lose if one takes a chance for a change that has the potential for good?

It's time to fish or just sit and play with the bait.

_____________________________

Horrace Cain.
AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years
Official Candidate: AMA Ex. Vice Pres. Vote H. Cain. Help move AMA into 21st Century
The only source of knowledge is experience. Albert Einstein

(in reply to YNOT)

Post #: 127

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 6/29/2005 5:36:24 AM

FlyinTiger

Posts: 642
Joined: 1/26/2004
From: Penn Valley, CA, USA
Status: offline

EVERY ONE of the "beginners" I've seen on the "Beginner's" Forum is flying a park flier or small electric plane. All of them are starting out on their own and have to be coaxed to go seek help after many failures and money down the drain. I suppose the beginners that are getting help at clubs wouldn't need to ask for help online, because they already have all they need.

Another thing I've noticed over and over is that people are very scared of committing to a hobby because they "might find something better next week." I can't stand that fly-by-night, don't know what I'm going to want to do tomorrow, bull.

I still say...what is wrong with AMA stabilizing at a smaller number of dedicated modelers? Sure the fads will come and go, the people with Hobby Zone Firefly's aren't going to spend $58 to join AMA, and that is fine.

_____________________________

FlyinTiger

(in reply to Hossfly)

Post #: 128

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 6/29/2005 2:53:55 PM

Jim Branaum

Posts: 1669
Joined: 10/22/2002
From: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FlyinTiger

SNIP

Another thing I've noticed over and over is that people are very scared of committing to a hobby because they "might find something better next week." I can't stand that fly-by-night, don't know what I'm going to want to do tomorrow, bull.

I still say...what is wrong with AMA stabilizing at a smaller number of dedicated modelers? Sure the fads will come and go, the people with Hobby Zone Firefly's aren't going to spend $58 to join AMA, and that is fine.

I am not sure you are wrong, but I still wonder why we have to spend more and more money on a black hole in the midwest. Isn't that a good part of the $58 since insurance might account for less than $20?

_____________________________

Jim Branaum AMA 1428

(in reply to FlyinTiger)

Post #: 129

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 6/29/2005 8:18:52 PM

FlyinTiger

Posts: 642
Joined: 1/26/2004
From: Penn Valley, CA, USA
Status: offline

Well, the best estimate I've seen was here on RCU here in the AMA discussion forum where it was "determined" that $15 of our dues goes to insurance and the rest is divided up between the National Flying Cite and Museum maintenance, payments, and paying the salaries of the employees of AMA, then of couse you have the magazine...

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FlyinTiger

(in reply to Jim Branaum)

Post #: 130

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 7/1/2005 5:44:17 AM

Hossfly

Posts: 3777
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FlyinTiger

Well, the best estimate I've seen was here on RCU here in the AMA discussion forum where it was "determined" that $15 of our dues goes to insurance and the rest is divided up between the National Flying Cite and Museum maintenance, payments, and paying the salaries of the employees of AMA, then of couse you have the magazine...

FT, there are better estimates posted in this forum. From the 2004 Audit Report, Brady Ware, Dayton, Ohio, AMA paid $1,274,572.00 for Member Insurance in 2004.

2004 ended with 163,709 members. This includes the freebies, the discounted, and all others. However that amounts to just a few cents over $7.00 actual per member for insurance. Of course the paying members must support those that don't pay such as the JR-SR members. Therefore the actual cost per paying member is a bit more.

Using the member-revenue figures, I estimated 4400 full youth members, 13,767 youth no mag., 97,826 full AMA, 37,350 Senior Citizens, and the remainder as discounted, affiliate, and free members.

The magazine costs you more. Actual MA loss for 2004 was $1,060,560.00. The kicker here is that 8 employees geared to the production of the magazine are not accounted to the expense of the magazine, but to the overall AMA staff expense. Therefore the costs of MA are actually considerably more. In another post I estimated the actual member cost of the magazine well exceeds the cost of insurance, which is the bait to keep member attention so directed.

Thanks for being interested.

edit: add youth after "...4400 full..."

< Message edited by Hossfly -- 7/1/2005 5:46:47 AM >

_____________________________

Horrace Cain.
AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years
Official Candidate: AMA Ex. Vice Pres. Vote H. Cain. Help move AMA into 21st Century
The only source of knowledge is experience. Albert Einstein

(in reply to FlyinTiger)

Post #: 131

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 7/31/2005 8:23:56 AM

YNOT

Posts: 2062
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Lake Jackson, TX, USA
Status: offline

Current issue of MA, this thread is directly mentioned.

Page 100.

_____________________________

YNOT, Snap, Flip & Hover,
Tony D

(in reply to YNOT)

Post #: 132

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 8/1/2005 9:59:37 PM

timothy thompson

Posts: 2761
Joined: 6/19/2004
From: saginaw, MI, USA
Status: offline

If everyone who flew rc joined AMA and flew at club fields they would be swamped. I have AMA for the extra insurance and Mag. You are covered anywhere you fly if you follow the saftey code.

(in reply to Woody218-RCU)

Post #: 133

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 8/8/2005 6:14:42 AM

CowboyLifesaver

Posts: 410
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Sun Valley, NV, USA
Status: offline

Alright, Anyone who has read many of my posts knows for sure I'm gonna chime in on this one. I joined the AMA for one reason only. To go to those "club" fields and piss em off because I have the "license" to allow me to fly there. Now before anyone gets bent...........NOT ALL CLUBS ARE THE SAME. I have written to and talked to many people here and in other countries that have the good and the bad. It is the "old hats" at the "club" fields that are caue for concern. AMA or not is not the issue. It is, are you part of their click or not? See we here in Northern Nevada have a serious problem with the "clubs". They aren't there to represent this hobby or bring in newcomers. It's nothing but a Saturday and Sunday social to them. If you are new, they don't have time for you. If you aren't new and have experience they have to fly YOUR plane for you. Even though with one look you can see the plane has many many flights on it. I understand the concern to ensure the airworthyness of an aircraft in accordance with the AMA. I do not understand why they have to fly YOUR plane. We here in Northern Nevada have been richly blessed with marvelous dry lake beds that are smoother than the "club field", much much bigger, (comes in handy for newcomers that seem to crash or not be back out quickly to try it again), and many people who are willing to help somone new, even if it takes time away from themselves. We've had a few guys with brand new warbirds, etc. they really wanted to try out but never got to it before the wind came up to help someone new. No, we dont require you to be an AMA memeber, but we do require you follow the rules as if it were an AMA field for safety purposes. We are flying with permission on private property a rancher has been so generous to offer. He was willing to offer it after he attended a "club" field ONE time. If that doesn't say something about the "clubs" I don't know what does. So, those of you who seem to think there isn't a problem, and its just a few peoples feelings, you are dead wrong, or you do fit the bill YNOT wrote. I agree with him 100%. There is a problem and the "staunchy old hat" guys are were to start fixing it. Oh yea, hey try not to crash their 400 dollar investment for them which seems to be the main cause of people not returning to the hobby here. It's a trainer cord buddy box system for a reason. Put your coffee down, your social on hold, and pay attention before they hit the ground!

_____________________________

"What size engine is that???? You''ve got some serious thrill issues." Desert Lakes Fly''n Group Revver #165

(in reply to Woody218-RCU)

Post #: 134

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 8/8/2005 8:51:05 AM

Loubud

Posts: 7216
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Ventura, CA, USA
Status: offline

Hi All,
I'll put my 2 cents in as to why both clubs and the AMA is losing or not getting members. Cowboy is on point. Here's one reason I may not renew my membership. The AMA thinks I'm a "fad". I started flying again after a 30 year layover. I used to fly the little "Cox" powered hand control stick planes. R/C flying was just too expensive for me back in the early 70's. I decided to try one of the eBay RTF planes. Sixty bucks delivered to my front door. After a handfull of broken props I turned to the web to find out what I was doing wrong. It's now a year later and my "fad" planes include my 3rd Accipiter Badius fuse, 2 Slow Sticks, 1 highly modified Guillows free flight stick plane complete with electric motor, ailerons, elevator, rudder, flaps and spoilerons. 1 Gruapner freeflight converted to brushed/gearbox motor, rudder and elevator. 1 Zagi XT, 1 Mad Dog. 1 -2 meter sailplane, brushless with unlimited verticle. 1 -102" brushless stick built sailplane, 1 T-Rex brushless, 3D Heli. 1 cheap 4 channel TX. 1 Airtronics 6 channel TX. 1 8 channel Airtronics TX. Bunch of spares. Gobs of glue. The AMA has in an article printed in the latest edition that unless you use lipos and are going brushless, you aren't really into this R/C flying thing and don't matter much anyway.
I'd like to know who is less relevant. Me or the AMA?
One look in the park flyer forums and you don't see much chatter about the AMA. What you do see is a bunch of people having a pretty good time. Take a look at the Badius threads. Over 150 pages and 4,000 posts on one of them.
Adios

< Message edited by Loubud -- 8/8/2005 8:54:51 AM >

_____________________________

Vegetarian. Old Indian saying meaning Lousy Hunter.

(in reply to CowboyLifesaver)

Post #: 135

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 8/9/2005 3:11:01 AM

PilotFighter

Posts: 1987
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline

I mentioned this in another thread, and I think it applies here also. I was commenting on the price of land. If you have been pricing land lately, particularly east of the Mississippi, you know what I'm talking about. The boomers are getting rich and looking to invest. Land prices have sky rocketed.

My concern is that land pricess have risen so steeply that new clubs will have a serious problem pruchasing land .

And I mentioned that my state, and I suspect other states are restricting new park money for multi-purpose sites only. Since RC flying doesn't mix well with many other park activities, we are essentially banned from recieving park money from the state. Cities may build RC specific sites, but no state money is involved, in most places.

It is my conclusion that the AMA might have missed a great opportunity to lobby states, and maybe the federal gov. ( the parks money may have come with mandates attached). It would appear that the land grab for parks in our major population centers has come and gone. Soccer seems to have won. These parks could conceivabley stand for 1000 years. Meanwhile our haobby has been pushed far out of cities and away from municipal funds that represent the last hope for funding, ( minus the EPA sites).

I live in a large city. I can drive on the freeway for one hour just to cross town. In the future, more cities will be this large. And they will be adjacent to other large cities. It isn't going to be feasible to expect the modellers of the future to drive several hours to reach a rural area where the flying club can reside. And besides, the land will be too expensive. We MUST fight to maintain RC fields within the population centers or the hobby will be doomed. ANd we deserve our fair share of park money and park sites.

But the AMA has not lobbied against the state laws that ban single purpose park sites. An amazing amount of growth has been happening around this country in the last several decades. Everyone else has recieved thier park. If things continue as they have, the only clubs left standing will be the ones that bought thier own land back in the 80's or 90's, or those very lucky enough to live in a city that used municipal funds to provide a site.

I now see land as this hobby's greatest challenge. If the AMA is not effective in this battle, we might see the end of this hobby in another 30 years. At least the end of the large gas and glow models. Perhaps the electric can survive. But they will likely do so without an AMA.

_____________________________

turn left, your other left

(in reply to Loubud)

Post #: 136

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 8/9/2005 6:04:41 AM

CowboyLifesaver

Posts: 410
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Sun Valley, NV, USA
Status: offline

You have a good point pilot, but it is hard to lobby without people and at the rate the clubs here are running everyone off it may be sooner. Like I said thank God for the Nevada Ranchers.

_____________________________

"What size engine is that???? You''ve got some serious thrill issues." Desert Lakes Fly''n Group Revver #165

(in reply to PilotFighter)

Post #: 137

RE: Why the AMA is not growing........... - 8/11/2005 12:07:31 AM

Hossfly

Posts: 3777
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline

For sure there is just so much land. The manufacture of land has also been out-sourced.

It will get more expensive. In addition, there will be many times more *soccer-moms* out there lobbying for the use of public resources than there will be RC or other modelers. They will be confronting people totally unaware of model airplanes outside stick and tissue, COX CLers, and Guillows' balsa throw-gliders, if even that much. Wanna' take bets just who will win?

Heck, PF, your land-owning club actually is some 20 acres short of a decent facility. They are sitting on their butts waiting for "LORD" only knows what, rather than negotiating for those two ten-acre lots adjoining the current facility. It will NOT get cheaper. Bet y