RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!!

RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!!
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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 2/12/2005 9:28 PM

Captain Nemo12

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Good thinking!

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 2/13/2005 8:06 PM

ScRamjet75

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Captain Nemo12;
You are the man. Mini Torps are a B$%&* to make.
I've been wondering how I was ever gonna get torpedoes anywhere near scale in my 1/96 Gato Fleet boat.
dieFluggster, you hit it dead on, who cares if the body rotates if it's propelling the torp!
My contribution to this brainstorm:
The body will have some small rolling resistance in the water, due to surface friction.
Thus the prop pitch OR diameter needs to be slightly larger than the blades on the body.
However, I suspect that in 1/96 scale, the difference may be minute.
On the marker tube ones it may be apparent.
I'd try it but I'm busy trying to rebuild the sub and build 2 P-38 Lightning planes by mid 'March for a show.
Oh, and all the open water around here is solid right now...

Good Hunting,
ScRamjet

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 2/14/2005 4:45 PM

Benthehen

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i get now, fluggeister. i forgot that the rubberband would make it go the opposite directions on each end.

ramjet, how big is a torpedo for that sub?

but for me, i think it would be just as easy to make a electric one. simply a 6mm diameter motor, and a few 1/4 aaa bateries. those would fit in a large pen. also would need a small magnetic switch.

benthehen

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 2/18/2005 2:02 AM

Captain Nemo12

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ScRamjet75

Captain Nemo12;
You are the man. Mini Torps are a B$%&* to make.
I've been wondering how I was ever gonna get torpedoes anywhere near scale in my 1/96 Gato Fleet boat.
dieFluggster, you hit it dead on, who cares if the body rotates if it's propelling the torp!
My contribution to this brainstorm:
The body will have some small rolling resistance in the water, due to surface friction.
Thus the prop pitch OR diameter needs to be slightly larger than the blades on the body.
However, I suspect that in 1/96 scale, the difference may be minute.
On the marker tube ones it may be apparent.
I'd try it but I'm busy trying to rebuild the sub and build 2 P-38 Lightning planes by mid 'March for a show.
Oh, and all the open water around here is solid right now...

Good Hunting,
ScRamjet

ScRamjet,

I assume that a 1/96 Gato is about just a meter long, my 1/52 u-boat measures over 1 meter and 20 cm and a normal sized pen with diameter 10mm fits nicely into the tubes. With subs such as these, you have to take account that the propellers glued on the pen tube will take up space in the torpedo tube, every pen has a cone shaped end and you should glue the counter prop as close to the end as possible, make them a fairly good size to create propulsion but small enough to fit into the tube without blocking problems, it's a tricky process but you'll get around it eventually.

dieFluggeister, again, nice advice! I'm gonna try this system later this weekend. Keep the good ideas flowing!!

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 2/27/2005 12:04 AM

Captain Nemo12

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I drew up plans for the launching mechanism today, you can see a picture of it bellow. It's quite simple really, the system is built outside the wtc for easy access and launching. A set of pushrods blocks the props of the torps to keep them from spinning (and to keep the torps place!

), this system is designed for two torpdoes, although it can be modified for a 4 torp system. A tube seal located on the WTC wall keeps water out (launcher is placed in a free-flooding area of the sub), the seal is lubed for the push rods to go back and forth easily. Once the rods are pulled, the props of the torp are unblocked and they propel the torp forward, out in the water.

Plans are drawn, it's time for the building!

Thanks guys for your help and inputs so far!

< Message edited by Captain Nemo12 -- 2/27/2005 12:05 AM >

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 2/27/2005 4:39 PM

Benthehen

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captain nemo, how will you hold the torps in placce before they are launched? if you had a tube around the torps, then the props would have to be small, so it could also pass through.

i am going to build my rubberband pen tube torp now

benthehen

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 2/27/2005 6:38 PM

dieFluggeister

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I'm not a sub modeler... how big should they be? Do you want them to run on the surface or submerged? I dont smoke cigars, but a cigar tube would be great depending on your scale. They're what, 8" long and 5/8" diameter?. I was hoping to pick one up a just for the tube. I conceive a fiberglass/resin cone in the rear, brass tube bushing, and music wire shaft with a washer soldered on to take the tension.

The cone is easily cast by pouring resin into a simple paper cone with the brass tube alredy suspended in it.

Whaddaya do for props?

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 2/27/2005 8:05 PM

Captain Nemo12

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Benthehen, here's a profile view of the system installed into the sub (U-boat in this case) the torps just rest into the torpedo tube and the props are not touching the tube wall (yes, I guess on a smaller model the props would have to be small). Areas coloured in blue is free-flooding.
Just double the system and you got a four torp launcher.

dieFluggeister, for a U-boat in 1/52 scale, the diameter of the torp needs to be about 1cm wide, as for the length of the tube, it depends on the size of the rubber band and space inside the sub, however, the push rods does not need to be long, as long as they have space to move back and forth. As for the props, check out the ones suggested by RC Sumo and pkh, I simply scratchbuilt mine out of scratch plastic laying around.

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 3/1/2005 3:25 PM

Captain Nemo12

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I've been thinking about the idea of putting the props on the torpedo tube, like I've said before, you have to make sure that they don't block the torpedo inside the tube. Making sure that they are a certain size and near the stern bit. But how about we combine RC Sumo's idea of making the props on the torp tube retractable? Once they are retracted, the blades won't bother the tube anymore, and also, if we make them long enough, they can be used to block the shaft-props from spinning. You can just use the push rods to push the torp out of the water, the blades on the torp tube are free and at the same time, release the shaft props and on they go!

diefluggeister, to answer one of your questions: yes, they have to be running submerged in this case. If the props on the torp tube is out of the surface, it won't give much effects. Who likes surface running torps anyways??? As long as you can see it underwater, that's good enough to see!

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 3/3/2005 2:28 AM

Benthehen

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oh... i was trying to build a smaller torp, i guess... your torp is almost bigger than my ultra top-secret micro sub. lol. i was aiming for more of a .7 cm torp, which is were the prop problem comes in.

benthehen

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 3/7/2005 1:10 PM

Subculture

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Hi guys,

I'm new here. I'm a bit curious about de torps. What's the approx. range? I got this link from a German-forum. Looks great (and cheap, yes I'm dutch).

Grtz.

Danny van Dijk
Rotterdam, Netherlands

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 3/7/2005 3:31 PM

tauchtwas

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@Captain Nemo12: What is the running distance for this type of torp and the speed(or running time)?

Best Regards from Germany
Andreas

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 3/7/2005 5:58 PM

Captain Nemo12

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Hi guys,

I cannot really give you an exact number but I think the running distance for such as torp, at this scale (1/52) it would be certainly less than that of those propelled by gas. When I first tested the V2 (red/white torp on the previous page) with no modifications to the body, the distance was fairly short to suit my taste, because the torp's spinning body released much of the energy by spinning rather than by going forward. I haven't tested these new mods suggested by the folks here, but this is on the top of my to-do list.

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 3/24/2005 6:41 PM

NovemberFox7

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I was just reading your thread for fun and this project is fascinating. I just had a thought on the torpedo. Consider a flood tube that tapers at the rear or has an area in the back that holds the prop still. Use the servo to push the torp forward out of the restraint and off the prop goes. Now, the next consideration is how to stabilize the body of the torp in the tube. What about a slot that the stabilizer fin sits in so it can't rotate. (Fins would have to be slightly larger diameter than the propeller for prop clearance in the tube) Just a shallow slit on each side, perhaps toward the front?.... Anyway, in my head as I think this through, the torp would sit with the prop lodged in it's restraint and the stabilizer fins sitting in their slots. It would have to be designed so that the prop is freed at the same travel distance as the stabilizer fins (or after). Just give it a kick in the rear with the servo and off it should go.

Let me know what you guys think and if this helps. I need to get back to work instead of getting dragged into another time-consuming hobby (already into R/C boats and planes...)

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 3/24/2005 8:23 PM

MerlinL14

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1 thing I have though of. After reading this brilliant thread. If the torp's are to be wound up and then loaded into a tube, how are you going to stop the prop rotation whilst loading as the push rod is right at the back of the tube???? Just another spanner in the work's. But seeing as how you have come up with this fantastic idea, I just thought I would ask something that may have been overlooked.
Keep up the brilliant idea's though. This is gettting real interesting

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 3/24/2005 10:49 PM

Captain Nemo12

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NovemberFox

Consider a flood tube that tapers at the rear or has an area in the back that holds the prop still. Use the servo to push the torp forward out of the restraint and off the prop goes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MerlinL14

If the torp's are to be wound up and then loaded into a tube, how are you going to stop the prop rotation whilst loading as the push rod is right at the back of the tube????

Guys, this is one thing I've encountered while building the U-boat, you could just load the torp into the tube unwound and and wound it afterwards (not sure if this is efficient). I've build my boat with two "flaps" or "doors" around the bow section so that when loading the torp, you can wound it up and simply place them into the freeflooding section, block the prop with the push rods, close down the flaps and off you go.

As RC Sumo said at the beginning of this thread, you can make the props retractable. If two sets are made (one set on the body/ one on the shaft itself) you can make the props on the body longer so that when they are retracted back they can be used to block the shaft props themselves.

< Message edited by Captain Nemo12 -- 3/25/2005 4:22 PM >

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 4/8/2005 3:38 PM

123365

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if you have legos use lego props

quote:

ORIGINAL: RC Sumo

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 4/9/2005 4:26 PM

Captain Nemo12

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Well I guess that could work but you'll have to buy a whole set of building toys to obtain the props. Making them yourself is much easier, you know what dimensions to use. Speaking of Legos, so parts can be useful, hinges, rods, linkages and gears can be obtained from spare parts. The only problem is that the parts only fit on specific Lego parts you may need some work to make them fit correctly.

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 4/9/2005 11:03 PM

Captain Nemo12

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New pics of the boat! I'll be testing torpedo lauches on this boat. You gotta have launching platform!

I have the control surfaces manufactured, the linkages and inside guts will be installed soon. One of my relatives had their printer broken and is considering giving it away, this is perfect for new mechinal parts! Motors, gears, etc.

Please excuse the state of the grass, spring just hit here so might want to wait for it to get to the "greener side"

. My camera's back-light function was on and the pics were too bright so I had to photo-edit the pics for the correct brightness, it's still a bit shiny because the sun was a bout to set and casted a bight ray on the boat's upper deck.

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 4/10/2005 12:26 AM

kuebelwagen

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Hello. Just a thought, how about a long 'keel' on the torp', may help counter torque.

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 4/12/2005 9:57 PM

Captain Nemo12

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How about this: You can install special "slots" into the torp tube, the slots will block the propellers' rotary movement, the torp stays stationned. But to launch, you make the push-rods push on the torpedo, out into the water, since the slots are no longer blocking the prop, they can move and provide propulsion. Image below:

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 5/7/2005 6:46 PM

rcakula

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Yes, but although you are holdin the prop still, whats stoping the main body from roataing in the launch tube?

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 5/13/2005 8:29 AM

kermit d fragged

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If the sub is big enough; there is a torpedo like gadget that is available.

Does anyone else remember those missile like propulsion gadgets that are attached to the bottom of small boats to propel them in the water?

If the Sub is large enough; one or even 2 may fit in the bow in torpedo tubes. It will require some trimming of the device and rearranging the on off switch and does look more like a missile than a torpedo. Keeping the gadget to follow a straight line might also be a challenge since the small boat usually comes with a rudder for direction with the gadget just pushing the ship forward.

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 5/13/2005 8:51 PM

Captain Nemo12

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kermit d fragged

If the sub is big enough; there is a torpedo like gadget that is available.

Does anyone else remember those missile like propulsion gadgets that are attached to the bottom of small boats to propel them in the water?

If the Sub is large enough; one or even 2 may fit in the bow in torpedo tubes. It will require some trimming of the device and rearranging the on off switch and does look more like a missile than a torpedo. Keeping the gadget to follow a straight line might also be a challenge since the small boat usually comes with a rudder for direction with the gadget just pushing the ship forward.

Ahh, this brings back memories... I remember getting one these units from my first model submarine, it's suppose to be attached to the bottom of the sub's keel and when you twist the rear half of the unit, the connectors line-up and power is gained, very cute. On a bigger sub, this would probably work but considering the size of this unit (about an inch wide), I don't think it will be able to fit inside the torpedo tube... or come out!!

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RE: Pen tube torpedoes? Possible!! - 5/18/2005 1:41 PM

kermit d fragged

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Yeah, but it might be useful in that large scale midget sub.

About the topic on how to prevent the torp body from spinning while inside the tube. It might be done by having the push rod inserted on a groove or hole in the body of the torp too. The problem now is how to supply the gentle but fast kick that would push the torp out the tube far enough with the push rod retracting back clearing both the hole and the torpedo propeller.

It has to be gentle enough otherwise it might be a single use torp.

Fast enough so the torp still has juice when it hits water.

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