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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Giant Scale Aircraft - General >> RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon
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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/13/2002 11:11 PM   
amack


 

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From: Edmonds, WA,
Status: offline 		I finally figured it out for getting a pic (My files were to big. Any ways here is one pic,(maybe).

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/13/2002 11:22 PM   
amack


 

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Status: offline 		Here is another pic. These pics are 4 months old and I will need to take new ones. I see your production is moving right along. I also had problems with the cowl and have reworked it to fit. I should have made it into two piece for engine access like the real one or make an access door on the top to access the needle valve.

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/13/2002 11:28 PM   
amack


 

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Status: offline 		This has got to be a diff pic.

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 6:20 AM   
Newflee



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Status: offline 		Well it's on to sheet#2. I'm going to have a rum and enjoy what I have so far.
Man that's a huge fin! My Nosen must be off scale because its fin is about quarter scale of this one.

I haven't made the rudder yet as I have not decided if I want to do a solid balsa as plans or a framed up sheeted number. Problably the latter as I can save a little weight and I hate shaping balsa slabs, especially ones that wide.

Where the stab is located I have installed 1/4" ply in order to accomodate the plug in feature. Balsa block fillers will be installed and shaped once everything is done and final alignment is good and secured.

This baby is big!

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 6:27 AM   
Newflee



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Status: offline 		Anyone who's interested in a great quality panel should contact Diamond panels (on the web). Check out the web site, the panels are a1. I was quoted $45.00 for a replica of this panel including radios and everything you see in the photo. I just have to email them a panel template and they'll get on it right away.

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 7:38 AM   
Big_Bird



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Status: offline 		Lee or Jeff I have questions for you. If you look at the top view near F3, it looks like FB and FA diverge and are about a quarter inch apart. FB appears to be under F15 at that point. From one of your last photos Lee it looks like FB and the 1/32" inner sheeting end at the front of F3 with a step down to FA on the inside. True? Since you guys are building from precut kits, the length of FB should tell the tale. I even wonder if FB would work OK if it were only 1/8" rather than 1/4". The strength is in the laminated sandwich. It seems to me that laminating FA, FB, and 1/32" should be done prior to assembling the fuse sides.

Also have you considered lightening holes in FA. Looks to me like there is wood just going along for the ride without contributing to the strength. I'm very interested in keeping the weight down as much as possible without sacrificing strength.

Did you use the drawings of the formers to determine the length of the cross members?

Ken

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 8:12 AM   
Newflee



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Status: offline 		Ken you are right. I cut my FB before F3 whereas plan indicates for it to be cut after F3. This was an oversight that I noticed after cutting but decided not to recut. I don't see it making any difference either way, but you aren't going crazy.

As far as the divergence, it does appear that way on the plans (I didn't notice that until now) but I refered to the cross sections for that detail. You will see that there is no separation. I'm sure that you have noticed this.
The top view was only used in my construction when it came to checking alignment. Otherwise I used the side view and cross sections exclusively. Cross pieces and formers cut to plan will align everything perfectly, especially if your FA's are matched grade of ply.
Posts some pics as soon as you can.
I may try to whip together the Cessna 182 fuse while I'm in the fuse mood and then move on to wing production for both. This would allow us all to catch up and build the wings together.

Lee

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 8:29 AM   
Newflee



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Status: offline 		Ken to answer you other questions I will be putting lightening holes all along the fuse sides. The holes will range from 3" to 1" and if my calculations are correct will remove about 3 square feet of ply without compromise.
Yes my sides were laminated before assembly as well as vertical members installed on FA. All I had to do then is epoxy the LG mount on square and if FA's are matched strength all should pull together perfect even without the top view for reference. Of coarse I recommend using it. I also installed a 3/8" square cross member at F4/ top FA junction for squareness that will be removed now.
Regarding cross member length I cut exactly to size and miter in top view and cross section before I assembled anything. If they didn't fit perfect later,I knew there was a problem. They did.
I notice from Jeff's photos that he added diagonal cross members on his own. I didn't feel this was needed and splurged a bit instead on all spruce stringers. Pick your poison.
Reducing FB to 1/8 would problably work but your saving only grams. If scale thickness is your goal make sure you have someone measure the full scale to be sure if it's needed. My total thickness is 7/8" and Jeff's should be 1". If it is needed or if you really want to get fancy run FB from the firewall to F2 and laminate a thin sheet of carbon fiber from there back to F3. I think that FB has as much to do woith Firewall stabillity as anything else. Carbon fiber all the way up to the Firewall would work as good in that case I imagine.

Oh and bye the way, my A/C is entirely scratch built, no pre cut kits for this guy. I can't afford them. He he.

Lee

Feet are optional.

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 9:33 AM   
Big_Bird



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Status: offline 		Lee, thanks for the great photo with the gray fuzzy landing gear. Really good answers also.

My assumption is that I need to notch F13 and F14 in 1/8" where F15 meets them because I'm moving F16 and F17 in 1/8". I think you said that you trimmed the other formers ahead of F3 to compensate for moving F16 and F17 in.

Of all the plans built planes that I've built, the Ziroli Corsair that I built last year is the only one that I bought from a kit cutter (All American Kit Cutters). They did a very good job on it. There are some photos in my Gallery.

Ken

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 9:54 AM   
Newflee



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Status: offline 		Yes Ken you have to notch F13 and 14 by the thickness you are eliminating as you said, and formers forward of F3 likewise. Don't forget to bend your wires taking this into account. Upper outside longerons must be adjusted by slimming down F5 a little and window level longerons must me made so that they extend out 1/8" wider from F3 back so that sheeting runs flush. These details are pretty easy to visualize once you have something to look at. The hardwood (I used 1/4 ply) between wing saddle rear also needs to be adjusted but I just cut it custom at the very end.

I don't have anything against kit cutters but I have good machines and Wendell's plans digitized on CD. I printed out all the templates and modifications I needed, spray glue tacked to stock and cut away. I cut the entire kit in a couple evenings.
I have a CNC router that I'm preparing for the patterns and then it will be seconds to cut a kit.

Lee

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 9:58 AM   
diamondpanel


 

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Status: offline 		Hi,

We make Instrument panels for this plane. We have mad several for customers over the past few months. Check out our site.

Thasnk

Joe and Patty

Diamond Panels

[url]www.diamond-panels.com[/url]

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 10:55 AM   
Newflee



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Status: offline 		Ya its been posted already Joe.
Thanks.
Oh bye the way have the panels you have already made been scale in outline or have they not bothered?

Lee
Ps. Emailed and got quote from you today.

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 7:07 PM   
Big_Bird



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Status: offline 		Lee, thanks again for the info.

Joe and Patty I looked in your catalog and didn"t see a listing for the Hostetler 33% Super Decathlon. Do you have a photo that you can put here on this thread? I'm interested in the one that Lee showed about 8 postings back from this one.

Thanks,
Ken

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 7:59 PM   
Newflee



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Status: offline 		Ken, That panel that I posted is what they quoted a price on. I thought I was fairly clear. [QUOTE]Anyone who's interested in a great quality panel should contact Diamond panels (on the web). Check out the web site, the panels are a1. I was quoted $45.00 for a replica of this panel including radios and everything you see in the photo. I just have to email them a panel template and they'll get on it right away.[/QUOTE]
I don't know why Diamond Panels made that post just a couple posts after I made the same - maybe there are two Diamond Panels - or a parallel universe.
Edit: I see now that they have only posted twice. I guess they aren't familiar with the thread and didn't read prior posts.

Lee

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/14/2002 11:54 PM   
amack


 

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Status: offline 		Help.............I have all my servos installed and since I don't have any drawings. Does any one have the measurments for the travel on the rudder, elivator and ailrons on a 1/3 Citabria?

I found that this plane was a kit desined by someone named "Sewel", does that ring any bells with anyone?

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/15/2002 2:45 AM   
Big_Bird



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Status: offline 		Lee, you made it very clear. Since that they said that they had made panels for several SD customers recently, I thought that they might have shot a few digital photos that they could share. The reason that I said that I was interested in the one like your photo is that as far as I know, It hasn't been built yet. There may be some that they built that would look equally as well if we could see shots of these.

Amack, I think some safe initial settings on high rate would be: Elev 1.25" up and down, Ail 1" up and down and Rudder 2" left and right. Set the low rate at about 75% of these values. Modify after you have a few flights. Set the balance point about 25% of the wing cord back from the leading edge. Balanced, the plane should look as if it is in level flight.

Ken

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/15/2002 4:03 AM   
bj1235@iquest



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Status: offline 		At the Toledo show 3 or 4 years ago, a company was showing a 1/3 Citabria. I think the company was called "4S" which might go along with the Sewell. Sorry I can't remember more detail. The travels and balance given earlier should work, and the high rates suggested may even be a little conservative.

_____________________________

Bill Johnson

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/15/2002 4:43 AM   
amack


 

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Status: offline 		Bill and Ken.......Thanks for the input. I just needed some place to start. I still have some minor interior work and add the wing struts to finish up before I blance the plane.

Ken....Since I have a conventional flat bottom wing, my cord line is 21 inches. Could the 1/3 rule for CG apply? That is 7 inches form the leading edge and I have a black line mark on the underside of the wing and I thought this my be the CG. Otherwise I have no idea what this mark is for. 25% would put it at 5 inches, and I don't have any marks at this point. Also, I am mounting a 24 oz fuel tank behind the instrament panel near the upper part of the firewall. Is this the location for the fuel tank? I sure miss having drawings and this project has been quite a challenge.

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/15/2002 6:19 AM   
Newflee



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Status: offline 		Amack, put the fuel as close to the CG as you can. That way your CG wont change as your fuel supply does.

The SD that we are building came withe the attached note on set up. Take it for what you will. It may work for you as well.

Lee

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/15/2002 10:09 AM   
Big_Bird



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Status: offline 		Bill, I think you are referring to the plane marketed as a 1/3 scale Decathlon by a company called "S squared". I bought an old kit from a guy in East Texas and built the fuselage before I got totally disgusted with the project and sold it at an auction. The design was very poor and not a Decathlon at all with it's flat bottom wing. The guy who designed it must have gotten confused as to whether he was designing a Decathlon or a Citabria because he had some of both in it and the kit was very heavy. The fiberglass cowl was for a Decathlon but was very misshapen.

Amack, I was being pretty conservative with the throws that I gave you. Those that Lee showed would be good also. With a plane that heavy I don't think you would even notice the trim change difference if you mounted the 24 oz tank in front of the dash. As far as balancing at 33%, I think you might have a tiger by the tail with a very tail heavy airplane. This also depends on the type of flat bottom airfoil. From my experience, a nose heavy plane can be a little hard to fly especially on landing, but a tail heavy plane can be a disaster waiting to happen.

Ken

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/15/2002 10:27 AM   
Newflee



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Status: offline 		I agree.

Hey amack why not build one of these SD's along with us?

Lee

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/15/2002 10:08 PM   
amack


 

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Status: offline 		I would love to build an SD, since I was check out in one back in the 80's but I already have another kit, a Pica Spitfire. I have had the opportunity to fly a Mark 9 in the late 80's until the owner sold it. It burned 60 gallons an hour and got pretty expensive to fly but it was fun while it lasted. Now I have a Cherokee 180 and that uses only 10 gallons an hour.

You guys have been a big help and I really appreciate it. I am going to see how I can get the fuel tank moved back but I have to keep the tank even with the carb, don,t I. I don't have fuel pump on this glow engine, that I know of. I installed the engine with head on the right side for cooling, that puts the carb on top.

Keep the photo coming on your progress, I enjoy them.

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/16/2002 4:03 AM   
Big_Bird



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Status: offline 		Lee pointed out in an e-mail that former F2BD is 1/8" too tall for a landing gear transition piece (cover) to fit properly. I built 2ea F2BC and 2ea F2BD. The F2BC on the plans will be moved 1/8" toward the engine and F2BD will be moved 1/8" toward the tail. This will give room either side of the LG for the LG cover. I am going to cut the two F2BDs and F3CA and F3C down by 1/8" from the bottom (narrow) side to allow a smooth transition from F2BC to F2BD.

Ken

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/16/2002 6:23 AM   
Newflee



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Status: offline 		Ken If it were not for the cowl problem I would advise you not to cut down the formers you have noted but rather add 1/8" to the height of the forward formers. I haven't done accurate scale measurements but once the bird is framed up I think a little extra in front rather than a little less in the rear will look better. I say this beacause if you look at Wendell's latest catalog he shows "Bill Hackett's" Decathlon which looks noticably too squat as it is. This photo is in his catalog and not on the website.

Lee

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RE: Hostetler 33% Decathlon - 11/16/2002 6:41 AM   
Newflee



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Status: offline 		Heres a shot of the lightening hole party I had last night. So far I have illiminated 5 oz on one side for a total of 10 oz. I,m not finished yet and with some well placed holes in the LG support and other heavy parts, a reduction of a couple pounds should be had.
This bird is really overbuilt when done to plans. I know that Wendell's designs fly great as planned so I expect spectacular with the Jenny Craig.
Lee

Actually my medical scale was off a bit. My redudtion with the holes shown including both sides is a total of 5 oz. Not bad still.

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