RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK !  
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RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/19/2005 2:22:14 PM   
mulligan



Posts: 1147
Joined: 4/14/2002
From: Sanford, FL, USA
Status: offline 		-

< Message edited by mulligan -- 1/19/2005 2:26:14 PM >

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www.sanfordaeromodelers.com

(in reply to GRANT ED)
       Post #: 26

RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/19/2005 3:35:02 PM   
FLYBOY



Posts: 8686
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Missoula, MT, USA
Status: offline 		The only thing on the airbus I don't care for is that they put a lot of composite parts on it, like the vertical stab, and then put a huge piece of angle iron on it with bolts through to hold it on. Talking to Mike Melville a few months ago (space ship one pilot), he said that the one that came apart back east lost its tail for that reason. If they would have run the vert stab spar down through the back of the fuse and put two plys of bit on it, that plane would have never shook the tail off.

Other than that, they seem to be pretty darn good planes.

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Fly it till the wings come off.

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RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/19/2005 5:23:11 PM   
Flyboy Dave



Posts: 13291
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: San Bernardino County, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I wasn't going to say this....but the thing that bothers me about a plane
that big....is the body count in a wreck....

....I just can't see putting that many eggs in one basket.

FBD.

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A mechanic says..."Oh yeah, watch this".
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RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/19/2005 6:08:30 PM   
FLYBOY



Posts: 8686
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Missoula, MT, USA
Status: offline 		You and 800 of your closest friends can all go at one time!

Yea, seems like a lot!

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Fly it till the wings come off.

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       Post #: 29

RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/19/2005 6:12:13 PM   
Lowlevlflyer


 

Posts: 895
Joined: 5/29/2004
From: Davis, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Sounds like a typical arrogant frenchman. You kick the butt of every american aircraft company, huh? No Airbus design has ever failed, huh? Well, tell me something Mr. Strykass.... Do you think you french experts can keep the vertical stabilizers from falling off these new ones, without some BS attempt at blaming the pilots with some excuse as lame as "excessive rudder inputs"? I dont recall EVER having seen a report of the vertical stab falling off a 747 in 36 years. You might want to see if that ugly ass behemoth will even get off the ground before you go running your mouth about such a flaming sucess. A full size mock up built for PR day with the press doesnt insure sucess. I cant imagine why, but American aircraft designers always seem to want to make sure their aircraft WILL ACTUALLY FLY before they introduce them as the next greatest thing. They're kinda funny that way. At least the 747 has some class and beautiful lines about her. That thing is just downright UGLY.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Strykaas

Once again, we kick the ass of all other aicraft manufacturers !
It is born ! Yeahhhhhhhh !

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=294003
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=294004
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=293950
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=293951
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=294970
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=294525


< Message edited by FLYBOY -- 1/19/2005 11:12:51 PM >

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       Post #: 30

RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/19/2005 10:35:30 PM   
Strykaas



Posts: 3861
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Paris, FRANCE
Status: offline
quote:

Well, if you think aviation innovations are going downward in the U.S., you have fallen asleep,

Nope, you did not get my point. I merely meant that a few decades ago, MANY new aircraft were being created each year... I'm thinking of the 60s-70s ... Can you remember how many aircraft manufacturers were fighting each other in the US ? General Dynamics, Northrop, North American, McDonnel, Boeing, Douglas, Grumman, ... Even in England, many great designs all having great imagination and bringing to life attractive and new design all the time ... Today, new designs are quite rare... With the F-35 on the road now, when will we see any new fighter jet design ? Here in France, Dassault has NO project for the 'after Rafale' period... Can you imagine that ? No, France does not lead either, general trend... Dassault only working on drones now. Man too bad... Yeah, cruise missiles, but that's off topic, talking about aircraft new designs. I'm a modeller and like to fly my aircraft, not missiles lol.

quote:

this guy is a troll or just a bozo

Mhhh, not really, see my post #... If I were a troll, I wouldn't waste my time with you 'americans'... On this thread, I was just throwing a grenade to start another 'persecution thread'... More seriously, I was just saying that Airbus seems to have succeded where other have failed. Have you heard about 747X ?? It was envisionned for some time by Boeing to build something to fight against Airbus... WHY THE HELL DID NOT BOEING DO IT ? It would have been faaar cheaper for them !!! On the other hand, the chose the upper subsonic approach (completely incredible choice if you have a bit of transsonic knowledge, flying at these speeds is the worst place to fly).

quote:

But to say "you" kick the butt of all other airplane manufacturers is ignorant.

On the particular aspect of over-jumbo aircraft, no. An-224 / Spruce Goose are in the same league though...

quote:

at thing hits Vr

Already done on simulation bench What's left is a child's game... No ejection seat on these aircraft, and pilots are not crazy...

quote:

Wonder if it can do a roll like the 707 did

Can you imagine the roll rate difference with / without 800 x 100kg pax = 80 tons ? I guess vertical performance will be outstanding... She has to be able to take off on two engines with full pax / fuel... Imagine, 1/4 fuel, no pax...

quote:

Ah, Airbus

No aircraft design is 100% perfect. Similar accidents may be found about any aircraft.
What about the B747 that exploded roght after take off from kennedy ? Fuel vent design error ? Mhhh let's be consistent....

quote:

How's that A400 project coming along?

It's getting on the road now. Based on A330 I guess... A rival for the KC135 ??

quote:

Yes thats right last year airbus delivered more airliners than boeing.

Indeed. The family concept always pays off ! Better choice for airlines... This was one of the best concept Airbus introduced. No at all the philosophy or Boeing aircraft....

quote:

No Airbus design has ever failed, huh?

Let me tell you one thing that you seem to ignore, Lowlevlflyer. Airlines who operates aircraft have a very SMALL profit margin, only about 4%, which is one of the lowest rates in any business activity. Therefore, airlines have to reduce operating costs as much as possible... Over the last few decades have emerged 'secret' spare parts markets... Lower price, but also lower quality... Therefore, sometimes s**t happens, for example rudders... And to enhance you aeronautical culture, the spare part that made Concorde crash was lost by the preceding aircraft that took off just before.... This part was made of titanium, it was NOT the intended spare part (the original one is NOT made of titanium). It was for sure a part having a longer life than the one intended, so savings for the airline... Had it been a true spare part, maybe Concorde would still be flying today... There are some place where airlines don't have to p;lay... But this is a plague, a very large network of those BS spare parts exists...

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(in reply to Lowlevlflyer)
       Post #: 31

RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/19/2005 11:14:43 PM   
FLYBOY



Posts: 8686
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: Missoula, MT, USA
Status: offline 		Guys, lets not turn this into a bashing forum. Its not inteded to be a them VS us thread, it was inteded to show a new plane! If it continues, its going to get locked.

Also, please watch the language. You know the rules.

_____________________________

Fly it till the wings come off.

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       Post #: 32

RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/20/2005 12:58:51 AM   
TrevofKal


 

Posts: 50
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: kalgoorlie, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Grow up you lot!
EVERY manufacturers products has good and bad points and this pissing contest isn't worth the bullsh+t it produces. If this was a discussion about which plane is better because any of you were going to buy one this may be a different story but I doubt any of us are in the market for one of these so the arguement is for arguements sake and NOTHING else.
If all you are after is an arguement , go somewhere else.

BTW, thanks for the piccys. I had heard about this project and was wondering what it was going to look like.

< Message edited by TrevofKal -- 1/20/2005 1:04:27 AM >

(in reply to Lowlevlflyer)
       Post #: 33

RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/20/2005 4:54:46 AM   
Wayne22



Posts: 4214
Joined: 4/10/2002
From: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

vertical stab falling off a 747 in 36 years.

well there was at least one:

Japan airlines Flt 123.


One thing I can tell ya, working for an outfit that flys both Boeing and Airbus...the busses seem to break down a lot more often.....

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RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/20/2005 11:31:06 AM   
GRANT ED



Posts: 2354
Joined: 4/13/2003
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowlevlflyer

Sounds like a typical arrogant frenchman. You kick the butt of every american aircraft company, huh? No Airbus design has ever failed, huh? Well, tell me something Mr. Strykass.... Do you think you french experts can keep the vertical stabilizers from falling off these new ones, without some BS attempt at blaming the pilots with some excuse as lame as "excessive rudder inputs"? I dont recall EVER having seen a report of the vertical stab falling off a 747 in 36 years. You might want to see if that ugly ass behemoth will even get off the ground before you go running your mouth about such a flaming sucess.
quote:



No point bagging airbus about their vertical stabs. What about the rudder reversals on the 737 series. The thrust reversers on the 767. The fuel tank wiring in the 737 and 747. This thread is getting stupid. Face it, airbus do know what they are doing. Boeing are not perfect.

< Message edited by GRANT ED -- 1/20/2005 11:32:26 AM >

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RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/20/2005 2:14:45 PM   
mulligan



Posts: 1147
Joined: 4/14/2002
From: Sanford, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FLYBOY

Guys, lets not turn this into a bashing forum. Its not inteded to be a them VS us thread, it was inteded to show a new plane! If it continues, its going to get locked.

Also, please watch the language. You know the rules.



You got my vote, Flyboy- shut it down... please.

_____________________________

George Mulligan
www.sanfordaeromodelers.com

(in reply to FLYBOY)
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RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/20/2005 3:29:21 PM   
Zpat



Posts: 558
Joined: 11/9/2002
From: Lima, OH,
Status: offline 		I know the Concorde was a resounding financial experience.


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3D
Dare it!

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RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/20/2005 3:36:14 PM   
bla bla


 

Posts: 1580
Joined: 9/19/2002
From: Oslo, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Yes I agree! Certainly shows the American how to do it!
And Airbus didn't give in under pressure (well, when your the industries leading player you don't need to), unlike the British goverment of the 60's.
Had BAC's TRS2 gone into production, it would have shifted them ol' goal posts so far... well the Americans would have had to go to the moon to catch up!
Unfortunatley, the TRS2 feel victim political lobbying (black mail and treats to give it the street name) back in the old days before they new better!
A sad loss indeed. Still, it releaved the pressure on NASA.
Well done Airbus.

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BR blabla

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RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/20/2005 4:50:55 PM   
scottrc



Posts: 2306
Joined: 3/7/2003
From: A TREE, KS, USA
Status: offline 		I don't buy the American vs European thing on this project. Both Boeing and Airbus use multinational contractors to do their design, prefab, and component supply. A lot of the wing design work for this Airbus was done in Kansas. I worked for a contractor out of Colorado that supplies components to Airbus. And did work with a Taiwanese contractor that was doing CAD work for the 7E7 project for Boeing.
A Frenchman can own stock in Boeing and an American can own stock in Airbus.
Its great to see people marveling in this accomplishment. I for one do not see this endeavor as very intriguing. This plane to me is nothing but an overweight C5A that will get beaten out of the market by faster, smaller, more efficient aircraft built by Airbus, Boeing, Raytheon, Bombroidier, and many of the Russian / Chinese aircraft builders.

With the advent of the Spaceship One accomplishment, and the 7E7 concept by boeing, plus the advent of small woldwide traveling business jetts, This big beohemoth may become obsolete within a 1/4 of its service life.

I see this plane as a novelty, like the Concord, where the rich can wine and dine and dance and play tennis at 40,000 feet while flying non-stop from Sydney to New York.

Meanwhile, the airlines will still continue to cram me into a middle seat on a 757 for a 14 hr flight with a layover in Frankfurt and another in Taipei.

Scott

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RE: INCREDIBLE PLANE ! LOOK ! - 1/20/2005 5:20:06 PM