RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Drawings, Plans, etc.

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Drawings, Plans, etc.
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Scale Aircraft >> RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Drawings, Plans, etc.

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RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Drawi... - 4/4/2007 5:51:29 PM

Posts: 319
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From: Princeton Junction, NJ, USA
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Thanks for the ideas guys. I put the biggest pulleys I could, almost full depth of the airfoil. I ordered some Kevlar. I've come to rust it on racing sailboats, but it needs to be inspected from time to time. I'm down to the wire on engine selection. Choice is either a Fuji 50 or DA 50. The Fuji has a longer crankcase, but I could put an extender on the DA (although they don't recommend it due to bearing load, but then, I don't plan any hi-gyroscopic loading maneuvers). The Fuji is about $200 cheaper. The DA has a rear carb so it would be a cleaner installation. The side carb on the Fuji would certainly be easier to access, but ugly. Both would need a pitts wrap around. Ugh. I don't need to spend the $ on a lightweight engine just to add more balast. I think I'm leaning towards the fuji as the operationally better choice.

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Seth Hunter
Mercer County RC Society NJ

(in reply to arspievack)

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/5/2007 12:01:28 PM

TFF

Posts: 857
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Memphis, TN, USA
Status: online

Your plane is too nice to have something to stick out. I hope if the DA will fit competely in side you chose it. Maybe a big Satio or a Mokie. I think in the end you would rather say I'm glad nothing is sticking out rather than I spent to much.

(in reply to Sethhunter)

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/5/2007 12:48:28 PM

Posts: 319
Joined: 6/20/2005
From: Princeton Junction, NJ, USA
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Thanks TFF - I think the only glow option with enough umph is a Moki 2.1. I don't think the big Super Tiger and Saito's have the power margin necessary. Tom P. commented his Moki 1.8 in a Pfalz had barely enough fuel at 24 oz to finish a competition routine. 32 oz of glow fuel per flight is a bit daunting on the wallet, but then they say, you got to pay to play!

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Seth Hunter
Mercer County RC Society NJ

(in reply to TFF)

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/17/2007 6:18:50 PM

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Joined: 10/14/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
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Sethhunter,
I'm new to this thread and am quite impressed with your scratchbuild. Have you considered the DL-50? It's the same basic design and performance as the DA50 for less than half the price. I have this motor and am very happy! There's a big thread on it in the Gas Engine forum.

For those like me who lack the fortitude to design and construct one from thin air, rumor has it Glenn Torrence is planning to market a SERIOUS SCALE kit of the Pfalz DIIIa in 1/4 scale! Very cool!

< Message edited by CrateCruncher -- 4/17/2007 9:34:46 PM >

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RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/22/2007 4:02:25 AM

Posts: 26
Joined: 2/28/2007
From: Moe, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
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Hi Guys,

A friend of mine sent me this link - http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=114334#114334
It has many photos of the recent Airshow in Omaka, New Zealand. I think you'll really like the couple of shots of the Pfalz.

Also here is another link - http://rnzaf.proboards43.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=airshow&thread=1176111240&page=5
also from New Zealand. Lots of WWII birds but also some really nice shots of the WWI aircraft now flying and on display.

I hope you enjoy them.

ArdChoile

(in reply to CrateCruncher)

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/22/2007 12:12:52 PM

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Joined: 6/20/2005
From: Princeton Junction, NJ, USA
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Hi Cratecruncher - yes I've read a bit about the DL50. I'm sure it is a good engine however I ended up buying the DA mainly on reputation, reliability, local expertise/parts, etc.
Ardcholie - TERRIFIC pictures. What a show that must have been. Thanks for posting the link.

Not much to post on the DIIIa; working on small details while waiting for the engine. I think the kevlar is going to work well for the aileron cables. Cockpit is coming along. Will post some pictures of the engine installation as I get into it.

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Seth Hunter
Mercer County RC Society NJ

(in reply to ArdChoile)

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Drawing... - 4/25/2007 10:33:22 AM

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Joined: 12/9/2001
From: Tauranga , NEW ZEALAND
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I guess this is the fullsize one in question. I photographed this, and dozens more interesting old planes at Omaka here in NZ at Easter just past.

In reply to Erich, I seem to recall commentthat the engine is an old DH variety as was used in the DH Rapide/Dominie series.

Alan W

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RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/25/2007 12:33:22 PM

Posts: 95
Joined: 8/4/2006
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
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To bad that after going to all the trouble to build this reproduction he didn't spend more time getting it closer to scale.
It's a great project and could have come very close to the "real" thing.
Thanks for the photos... nice

ars

(in reply to AlphaWhisky)

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Drawing... - 4/25/2007 2:16:31 PM

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Joined: 9/27/2006
From: Georgetown, TX, USA
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Thanks for posting those pics Alan!

The only period photos of the aircraft I've seen show the exhaust on the right side (Mercedes is what one poster pointed out.) Just for my edification, what engine variants were used?

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlphaWhisky

I guess this is the fullsize one in question. I photographed this, and dozens more interesting old planes at Omaka here in NZ at Easter just past.

In reply to Erich, I seem to recall commentthat the engine is an old DH variety as was used in the DH Rapide/Dominie series.

Alan W

(in reply to AlphaWhisky)

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/25/2007 2:24:16 PM

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From: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Eric,
Off the top of my head I don't know. I'll try to look it up.
I'm going to bet that before I do Seth will tell you everyone. But I'll get to work on it
Thanks
alan

(in reply to Erich_Prinz)

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/25/2007 10:43:25 PM

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From: Park Rapids, MN, USA
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My guess is only the Mercedes was used in production Pfalz DIII (a) aircraft. The reproduction would use what ever closest represented and was reliable. Not sure but I think the Pfalzs in the Peppard Blue Max used something other then Mecedes. This repo might be one of them?!?

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Mode One, AMA 59157

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RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/26/2007 12:21:31 AM

Posts: 95
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From: Cambridge, MA, USA
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I'm pretty sure that only Mercedes had an in-line 6 which was used in the Pfalz, Albatross etc.
However throughout the war they were up-grading the engine to have more power, so that the later engines were different models (versions) of the M-B. I'm not sure whether they did it by increasing the displacment, which would have been the easiest way to do it. I'll try and find out.
alan

(in reply to Mode One)

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/26/2007 12:53:21 AM

jtisch

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From: Auburn, WA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mode One

Not sure but I think the Pfalzs in the Peppard Blue Max used something other then Mecedes. This repo might be one of them?!?

I am 99.9% sure that that is Javier Arango's old Pfalz in Alpha Whiskeys photo. I heard that he had sold it. If so it is indeed a Pfalz from the "Blue Max" film. I think it has a Gypsy Queen engine in it, or did at some time.

J

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RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/26/2007 12:03:04 PM

TFF

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From: Memphis, TN, USA
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I think the Blue Max planes had Ranger 6 cyl aircooled engines. I also understand that they did not fly well with the modern small prop and high rpm engine. They needed the big prop and lots of torque. What is interesting is there was a US licened version of the Mercedes engine in the 20's but I think it had a diffrent apllication than aircraft, but someone built a Folker DVII replica with one.

tom

(in reply to jtisch)

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/26/2007 3:25:39 PM

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Joined: 9/27/2006
From: Georgetown, TX, USA
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That's intriguing to me a slow/high torque combo makes the difference in flight characteristics. I'm presuming the undercamber - high lift/drag of the wing factors into the equation. One that Seth is likely thinking through right now!

The late Jef Raskin (the inventor of the Mac if you'll recall) was an avid model aviator with an astounding math background. He published an article on the scale flight speed (along with the formula) to get realistic flights of scale models.

It always 'felt' awkward to compare full scale WWI aircraft flying (the NY Aerodrome has clips of their demo flights) to our models in flight. Jef's explanation certainly shed new light on that awkwardness for me.

Thanks for the contribution here Tom! I'm soaking up just as much as I can here.

Erich

quote:

ORIGINAL: TFF

I think the Blue Max planes had Ranger 6 cyl aircooled engines. I also understand that they did not fly well with the modern small prop and high rpm engine. They needed the big prop and lots of torque. What is interesting is there was a US licened version of the Mercedes engine in the 20's but I think it had a diffrent apllication than aircraft, but someone built a Folker DVII replica with one.

tom

(in reply to TFF)

RE: Pfalz DIII resources -- Photos, Draw... - 4/26/2007 3:49:56 PM

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Joined: 8/4/2006
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Status: offline

Eric,
I don't if you were around or had any experience with the Wankle model engines that were put out in the 1970's. I still have 3 of them and loved them for their lack of vibration.
They were rated as a displacement of .30 cu.in. They were incredibly prop dependant. About all they would swing was a 10x4, thru 10x6 and you needed 16-18K of engine speed to get any pull out of them at all. High RPM or no torque at all.
I built a 1927 Stinson Tri-motor. 90 inch wing span. The Wankle(3 of them) fit nicely in the engine cowlings, and since they were hanging on struts under the wing,(2 were) lack of vibration was a nice addition to sound and performance. They looked great. The flight characteristics were terrible. vastly underpower. The 3 engines were screeming and the plane was struggling.
(And i was sweati