Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (Full Version)

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famousdave -> Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (1/27/2005 5:25:50 PM)

I am setting up two hitec 5945s on a split elevator. I have checked the geometry with a protractor and have concluded that I need to move the centering point on the servos to get a 90* neutral at center.

I am having a weird problem.. I think its operator error.. but maybe not.. I have set up a lot of split elevators and have not run into this problem in the past.

Here is my situation: (JR 10X Transmitter)
All trims, sub trims and mixes set to 0,0 .. TX is in absolute neutral and this has been verified.
The servos are connected using a y-harness
I have both servos set at 1500 us center after reset (one is CW, the CCW), I connect to my receiver and then position the servo arm as close to 90* as I can get it.
It is clear that they are not at 90*, so a center point adjustment is required to keep arm position and the linkages identical side to side .
I have set up protractors on both servos, I connect one at a time to the programmer and adjust the center point so that the servo arm is at 90*
The programmer acknowledges that the setting took (I think.. not sure if I can verify it?)
I re-connect the RX and power up... the servo arm moves back off 90*, close to where it was prior to programming!
I also notice though that there is now less travel volume than there was prior to the programming (i.e. it does not travel the same as the other servo)

Here is my understanding of how this should work... The TX is telling the servo to center at 1500 us but at that setting the servo arm won't align at 90*... so I program the servo to center +10 us to bring the arm into a 90* position. When I reconnect to the RX.. it still sends a 1500 us centering signal, but the servo should apply the programming of +10 us to center where I want it....


If my understanding above is true and the TX is truly sending a 1500 us pulse what am I doing wrong?

I think I understand the travel volume issue.. by moving the center I am reducing the volume proportionally by the shift and in order to gain it back I will have to shift end points by the same amount...

DP



famousdave -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (1/28/2005 3:19:14 AM)

Problem solved. I had a look at Joe Hunt's video and that solved my problem. I now have two perfectly matched elevator halves.. Anyone needing good instruction on how to use the programmer should go there... DOTD..

DP



splais -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (1/31/2005 2:25:13 AM)

Were can I find Joe Hunts video? are we suppose to guess. [:D]



Kelly W -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (3/11/2005 4:06:11 AM)

Sorry for digging up a month-old thread...[8|]

Hey DP, could you post a description of your solution? I'd like to hear it as I'm trying to match a pair 6985HB's.

Thanks,
Kelly



JoeAirPort -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (3/11/2005 4:43:57 AM)

I just set up my elevators (2-5945's) and ailerons (2-5245's per aileron) using this programmer and Joe Hunt's technique and I can tell you it is an awesome process (the only way to do it right actually).

Whenever you change your center point on the servo, your (old) endpoints get moved in closer to center. That's just the way the programmer works and it makes sense if you think about it. It moves your end points in so you don't hit your linkage endpoints and damage the linkage and/or control surface. So anytime you reset your center, you must re-program the endpoints. Once your center is perfect you never change it, and your end points don't get moved anymore (by the programmer). Then you can just play with your endpoints and perfect them. The center will just stay the same (unless you change it again of course). Also many people get confused when they set the center on the programmer and then plug the servo into the rx and it's not on center anymore. That happened to me too. The problem is that the programmer's center position is not the same as the tx's. It's closer on the Hitech tx's than the Futaba tx's. That's because Hitech's center is 1500us and Futaba is 1521us. Not only that but the sticks on the tx's don't always return to exact center so even on a Hitech the center position could be a little off. Also make sure to press "Input" on the programmer after each endpoint or center change.

As far as setting the center and end points on the programmer so they are perfect when you turn the tx on, Joe Hunt's video shows this as a method of repeated trial and error. First you must mechanically match the linkages with no power applied to any of the servos(see his other video for that). Then the programming process begins: He first programs the center and endpoints to a "good" starting value, always writing the values down on a pad of paper close by. Then he disconnects the servo from the programmer and plugs it into the rx (the tx is on). He examines how close it is and which way the center and endpoints have to go by measuring the control surface position with a ruler. He adds or subtracts a few counts to estimate the next set of numbers, writing them down before he programs them in the programmer. After programming the new numbers, he again disconnects the servo from the programmer. He plugs it into the rx and re-checks the center and endpoints. After 3-5 tries he is exactly dead on. Remember to always keep track of the numbers you use for each try on a pad of paper. To get a handle on what numbers you will start with and how much to add or subtract each try, you will just have to do it and get a feel. It took me a while to get this down, a few nights in the basement. But now I can rest assured that I am finally setting up my giant scale planes correctly. And the credit goes to the Joe hunt, he's a great teacher and information "sharer".



Bruce Rolfe -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (3/17/2005 3:18:16 AM)

Where is this video?[&o] I would really like to watch them.[:D]
Bruce



famousdave -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (3/17/2005 3:45:16 AM)

I wrote an article on how to do it as well.. it takes all the vids and compresses them into one page.. a little easier and less time! I had 4 planes to set up in a week.. needless to say I learned it real quick!


Get it HERE..

DP



Bruce Rolfe -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (3/17/2005 4:26:27 AM)

DP,
Thanks man. I want to get my planes done right. I figure it is better to ask dumb questions than to make dumb mistakes.
Bruce



Ken Bryant -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (4/1/2005 4:22:11 AM)

I would like to see the video as well, Where can we get the video?

I was E-mailed where to find the video. It's on a competing forum. SO if I type the name I am risking banning or some other wrath of the RCU admin. If anyone want's it I'll E-mail it to you. CHEERS!



Heli007 -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (5/30/2006 8:46:48 AM)

Can you e-mail me the video please. e-mail is liz92501@sbcglobal.net Thanks jimmi



aussie_flyer -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (7/31/2006 9:54:35 AM)

The video can be found on www.downonthedeck.com



azhar -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (8/21/2006 5:18:20 PM)

aussie-flier,

the videos in that link does not seem to work. Is there another site with those videos?



mglavin -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (8/22/2006 2:59:21 PM)

Try this link: http://www.downonthedeck.com/videos_instruction.htm



azhar -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (8/22/2006 4:48:03 PM)

Thanks Mike.



Wing-Ding -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (8/24/2006 6:28:03 AM)

Here are two procedures for programming Hitec Servos. You get the program numbers for the HFP-10 without using trial-and-error. I've gotten good feedback from other folks who have used them as well. Download the spreadsheets which aid in obtaining the program numbers.

http://www.aeroperfect.com/program.html




bob_nj -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (9/8/2006 12:06:48 PM)

desertpig --> What are the chances of getting that link working again, or emailing me a copy of your research?

Thanks_bob



bob_nj -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (9/9/2006 12:21:52 PM)

Wing-Ding

Here is a question for you too.
I am slowly reading and trying to comprehend your meter, and the vast amount of info on your very nice website.
I'll ask one question at a time, so here is the first.

Bench Programming A Hi Tech Servo -

What is the major benefit or purpose of bench programming a servo?

By that I mean, if a different arm is used for the servo when it's installed in a plane, than the actual one used in the bench programming procedure, will the servo need to be re-programmed?

In my mind the neutral programmed on the bench may not be the same ideal neutral found on the plane when a different arm is used, or if the servo isn't exactly squared up with the hinge line etc.

I hope that makes sense.

Now, I'm off to read the section on programming a servo in the plane.

Take care_bob



Wing-Ding -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (9/9/2006 7:35:43 PM)

Bob,

During programming, the Hitec Programmer (HFP-10) causes the servo to rotate farther than the target number of degrees. Since there are no linkages attached when bench programming, there's no chance of moving the control surfaces passed their maximum travel. Additionally, it's a bit more convenient to deal with just the servo as opposed to disconnecting and reconnecting the linkages when programming the servo on the plane.

The nice thing about programming digital servos, is that you can get maximum resolution. If you want the servo to rotate +/- 20 degrees, you can still have your radio EPA's set at maximum (e.g., 100%). That way the full range of pulse widths can be used to achieve +/- 20 degrees (e.g., 900 - 2100 microseconds).

You'll need to bench program the servo according to the servo arm length you select. It isn't exact, but you can take the ratio of your servo arm length to the control horn length to get the desired control surface deflection.

Let's assume the distance from the hinge line to the outer-most hole on the control arm is 1.25" and the distance from the center of rotation to the hole on the servo arm you plan to use is .75" and you want to move your control surface +/- 23 degrees. 1.25/.75 = 1.67 so servo arm rotation will need to be 23 x 1.67 = +/- 38.35 degrees. It would be no problem if you rounded to 40 degrees, because you can always adjust your EPA's a bit later if you want to.

As far as your question about having to reprogram the servo when using a different arm: My experience has been that the splines molded into Hitec arms are dead-nuts repeatable, so if your test fixture uses a Hitec servo arm, and you use a different Hitec servo arm on your plane, the zero should be in the same place. If after your servo is programmed you decide to select a different servo arm hole, then of course that will change the control surface deflection. If you selected a hole closer to the center of rotation, you could increase your radio's EPA's (e.g., 100% increased to 120%). If you don't have enough range on your radio, then you'll have to reprogram. If you select a hole farther from the center of rotation, then you can decrease you radio's EPA. If you decrease it too much, you'll loose resolution- so reprogramming might be a better choice.

Hope that helps.

Marl



bob_nj -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (9/9/2006 8:26:06 PM)

I will digest the major portion of your answer when I have more time later on.

The one comment I would like to make though, is that although the plastic arms may be predictable and repeatable, my
experience with the aluminum arms is that most definitely are not.

Thanks for the reply, and I'm sure I'll have another question soon_bob



Wing-Ding -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (9/9/2006 10:13:37 PM)

Here's a thought: You can use the same arm for programming on the bench as you do in the plane. Instead of using the larger screws I show on the website, you can use small tacks for temporary mounting. That way, there's no issue with the spline repeatability.

Marl



aegis -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (9/12/2006 7:33:12 AM)

I'm trying to program my servos (5955) and am not having any luck. This is my first time using Hitecs and am not sure what I'm doing wrong. The programmer is brand new. I tried setting the center and endpoints as stated in the operation manual that came with the programmer. The problem is that whenever I program the endpoints the center gets changed somehow. As an example, I set the center of one servo to be -11. After hitting and holding the M button, the programmer displayed "-> Center" and then the -11 value so I assumed the value had been assigned for the servo's center position. Next I programmed the left and right endpoints. After programming the end points, I hit the Input button to save the values. Problem is, now when I have the programmer search for center it is significantly different than the -11 value. The value on the programmer shows -21. Though the -21 value is not constant, the center position changing after programming the end points happens every time. I called Hitec and explained what was happening. I was told something was not right with the programmer and to send it in for inspection.

I got the programer back and the packing list said, "Test it here with our lazer guide and it's match with put factory specs." I ran through the programming sequence of programming the center and endpoints according to the operation manual and the exact same thing happens. I started doing a little experimenting with just setting centers. I set the center on one of my aileron servos at -11. To program the servo I first hit the Input button to have the programmer search for center. I (again) set the value to be -11, then pushed and held the M button until "-> Center" appeared. I released the M button and the -11 value appeared in the window. Then I hit the Input button. For this test I didn't mess with programming the endpoints. I unplugged the servo from the programmer and set the center on the other aileron servo using the same steps. I then unplugged the 2nd aileron servo and went back to the 1st aileron servo. When I had the programmer search for center on the 1st servo, it showed a different value (-14) than the -11. I unplugged the servo and went back to check the center position on the 2nd servo I just programmed. It too was different than what I had programmed. What am I doing wrong????

Thanks.

Dan



Wing-Ding -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (9/12/2006 5:22:36 PM)

Dan,

Not sure, but this is what it might be: When you first push the input button to select the EPAneuFS function you get the "center >" or "center <". The programmer is telling you to rotate the knob so that the KNOB is somewhat centered. Once the knob is centered sufficiently to satisfy the programmer, you have control over the servo with the knob. The word "center ><" on the programmer does not mean the center has been established- not yet.

Turn the knob so your servo is where you want the center point to be and then push M. Turn the knob to the left and set that servo point and push UP/L. Then rotate knob right to set that point and push DN/R. I usually don't set the failsafe at this point, so I push input to exit and then disconnect the servo from the programmer. Remember, whenever you set the center, you must reset both endpoints. Maybe you were pushing the M button right after you saw the word "center >" and before the programmer was happy with knob centering. The programmer doesn't really search for center on your servo, it's asking you to tell it where you want the center to be. Also, you don't have to push and hold the M button. Just push and release it to set the center point. Hope that helps.

Marl



aegis -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (9/12/2006 9:26:16 PM)

Thanks for the info, Marl. Yes, I rotate the knob until I get the -><-, then the programmer shows the numerical value of the servo's current center position. I turn the knob to move the servo arm to the desired center point, then hit the M button, then hit the Input button. For whatever reason, the center position is not maintained. I think I'm going to call Hitec again and see what they say.

Dan



Wing-Ding -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (9/12/2006 9:59:57 PM)

Dan,

After you hit the M button to set the center, you don't have to push input. You only push input when you're done programming center, left and right. I think that may be the problem.

Marl



SpaceW -> RE: Hitec Programmer - setting EPAneuFS (9/13/2006 12:01:05 AM)

aegis : I believe that when you turn the knob to search center >< the value that is showed by the programmer is not the servo's current center position but the position where the knob is.



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