Light 'n Heavy Shockys  
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    • All Forums >> Electric Aircraft Universe >> 3D Electric Flying! >> Light 'n Heavy Shockys
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    Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/23/2005 5:37:46 PM   
    Greg Covey



    Posts: 4450
    Joined: 5/24/2003
    From: Rochester, NY, USA
    Status: offline     		I recently retired my original Shock Flyer and replaced it with a new F3A Shock Flyer (on left) from Hobby Lobby. The so-called "Gen 2" or Second Generation Shock Flyers are a little larger than their predecessors which makes them fly a little slower and work better with heavier power systems. Stronger and stiffer, they have additional foam fuselage bracing, dual carbon wing braces and dual carbon rods for the landing gear. My bigger F3A Shock Flyer is powered by a Nippy Black 0808 motor on a 3-cell ThunderPower 860mAh pack (now known as 900mAh).

    During our indoor flying events this winter, we discovered that the numerous power systems available for these planes can be simplified into just two catagories; Light and Heavy. The major difference between the two catagories, other than about 3oz in weight, is that one has advantages for indoor flying while the other has advantages for outdoor flying. My lighter 5.5oz Shock Flyer is on the right.

    The same concept for Light 'n Heavy power systems goes for the Tensor 4D and all the other 3D foamies that have us nearly crazed over the constant marketing bombardment. I'll cover some of the pros and cons and actual setups next...

    Please free free to add your own successful setups.

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    < Message edited by Greg Covey -- 2/23/2005 9:41:06 PM >

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    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/23/2005 6:29:56 PM   
    Devin McGrath



    Posts: 647
    Joined: 4/24/2004
    From: Rochester, NY, USA
    Status: offline     		Here are my light vs heavy shock flyers.

    heavy set up
    Axi 2208/34
    Jeti 8amp
    Hs55 all around
    Gws rx
    Kokam 340 mah 2cell (2 packs)
    Edge 540 shockflyer
    8.6 oz


    old light set up
    Axi 2204/54
    Jeti 4 amp
    Kokam 340 mah 2cell
    Gws rx
    Gws pico servos rudder/ elevator
    Hs55 ailerons
    Extrema shockflyer
    5.6 0z

    My new shockflyer, a superstar came in at exactly 5oz with landing gear and my dads edge came in at 4.8oz with landing gear !!

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    < Message edited by shockflyerkid101 -- 2/23/2005 6:35:38 PM >

    _____________________________

    Devin McGrath
    www.devinrocks.com

    (in reply to Greg Covey)
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    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/23/2005 6:56:15 PM   
    Dennis Tampa FL


     

    Posts: 362
    Joined: 5/10/2002
    From: Tampa, FL, USA
    Status: offline     		This is a Great Thread. Facts, Just the Complete/Specific Facts.



    Dennis

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    DENNIS

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    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/23/2005 7:23:47 PM   
    Greg Covey



    Posts: 4450
    Joined: 5/24/2003
    From: Rochester, NY, USA
    Status: offline     		While the lighter power systems fly better indoors, the overwhelming power of the heavier category has advantages when flying outdoors. Many of us built both lighter and less rugged 3D planes for indoor flying as well as heavier and sturdier versions for outdoor flying with a little wind.

    Several motors fell into our “light” category. Motors like the LensRC 17t, AXI 2204/54, Esskay 300XT, and Python 30 could provide about 10oz of thrust with an 8x4 prop and 2-cell Lithium pack. Any plane in the 5-7oz range equipped with one of these setups had plenty of power for 3D maneuvers.

    The heavier motors like the AXI 2208/34, Nippy Black 0808, Esskay 400XT, and Python 60 had tremendous power levels at the cost of increased current and additional weight. These power systems typically added about 3oz to the setup due to the heavier motor and battery, which could easily be felt during maneuvers when flying indoors without any wind.

    Our initial Shock Flyers weighed from 7oz to 9oz. These planes flew amazingly well both indoors and outdoors in a light breeze. We then discovered that newer and smaller motors like the AXI 2204, Python 30, Esskay 300XT, and LensRC 17t may have provided less power, but, the lighter weight still allowed for a 2:1 thrust to weight ratio. In other words, since our re-built Shock Flyers now weighed only around 5.0 to 5.5oz, the 10oz of thrust provided by these tiny motors was more than enough for good 3D maneuvers.

    Here are a few of the setups we tested:

    Shock Flyer Setups

    Lighter Setup (5.5oz)
    - LensRC 17t
    - Jeti 4-amp ESC
    - 2-cell Kokam 340mah pack
    - GWS R4-P or FMA M5 receiver
    - GWS Pico BB or FMA PS20 servos

    Heavier Setup (8.5oz)
    - AXI 2208/34
    - Jeti 8-amp ESC
    - 2s2p Kokam 340mah pack
    - or 2-cell 860mAh ThunderPower pack
    - FMA M5 receiver
    - Hitec HS-55 servos

    Tensor 4D Setups

    Lighter Setup #1 (7.0oz)
    - AXI 2204/54
    - Jeti 4-amp ESC
    - 2-cell Kokam 340mah pack
    - FMA M5 receiver
    - FMA PS20 servos

    Lighter Setup #2 (6.5oz)
    - AXI 2204/54
    - CC Phoenix 10 ESC
    - 2-cell Kokam 340mah pack
    - GWS R4-P receiver
    - Blue Arrow servos for rudder/elevator
    - HS-55 servo (cut down) for ailerons
    - 7oz with 3-cell pack

    Heavier Setup (10.0oz)
    - Esskay 400XT
    - Jeti 8-amp ESC
    - 2-cell or 3-cell Kokam 640mah pack
    - or 900mAh ThunderPower pack
    - FMA M5 receiver
    - HS-55 servos

    < Message edited by Greg Covey -- 2/23/2005 9:45:07 PM >

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    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/23/2005 8:29:39 PM   
    Greg Covey



    Posts: 4450
    Joined: 5/24/2003
    From: Rochester, NY, USA
    Status: offline     		Devin in action.


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    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/23/2005 8:38:04 PM   
    Greg Covey



    Posts: 4450
    Joined: 5/24/2003
    From: Rochester, NY, USA
    Status: offline     		Hover Madness!

    Eric Powers and Devin McGrath practice for an upcoming indoor event in Rochester on March 19th.


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    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/24/2005 11:19:23 PM   
    TAILHOOK-RCU


     

    Posts: 118
    Joined: 3/30/2002
    From: NAPERVILLE, IL,
    Status: offline     		Greg,I have a Tensor right now.I am looking to get a shockflyer very soon.The tensor is getting sacked out from use.I would like to put these parts in it.Can you reccomend the best shocky to buy,and tell me anything I need to change?I will be outside.I have no indoor flying area........Phoenix-10/tensor 1080k/v outrunner/e-tec 3cell1200mah lipo /hs-55s all around/small gws rx or berg rx(gws is lighter of the two)Thanks in advance.I will buy what I need to,but I would like to use as much stuff I already have as possible.

    (in reply to Greg Covey)
           Post #: 7

    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/25/2005 1:28:37 PM   
    Mike Wiz


     

    Posts: 557
    Joined: 1/28/2002
    From: Linden, MI, USA
    Status: offline     		Hi Greg,

    I have been using the 17T Lens power system in both by old school Shockflyer 330S and my new Shockflyer F3A. I'm finding that powersystem is marginal on the big new F3A. Sure I can make it hover, but it's just a little too soft on punch out IMHO. My F3A weighs 6 ounces on the nose. Well as close to on the nose as I can tell with my postage scale that's accurate to 0.2 ounce.

    On my ShockFlyer 330S my weight is 6 ounces also. It has a little heavier (read older) radio gear. I'm tempted to build a new 330 with all of the light stuff in it and maybe substitute the balsa triangle stock for some foam braces like the new Shockfliers have.

    One thing I have noticed on both of my Shockfliers is that the Thunder Power 2S 480 pack delivers better power under load than my Kokam 340. Enough that it's noticable when flying. These packs are essentially the same weight...being in within the 0.2 ounce accuracy of my digital postal scale.

    In my quest to achive a little more thrust, but not gain a bunch of weight I have ordered one of the new Hacker A20 brushless out runners. If you can believe the MFG claim, it only weighs about 2 grams more than the Lens 17T. It also has curved magnets which is suppose to improve performance. I dunno, I'm not that technical when it comes to determining what makes a motor produce better power than another. The silly motor has been on order for what seems like forever. When it finally comes I'll post some comparison numbers between it and the Lens 17T.

    Question: Is the Jeti 4A ESC really any lighter than the CC Phoenix 10?

    Wiz

    (in reply to TAILHOOK-RCU)
           Post #: 8

    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/25/2005 1:37:44 PM   
    Devin McGrath



    Posts: 647
    Joined: 4/24/2004
    From: Rochester, NY, USA
    Status: offline     		Well if I was building a shocky for outdoor I would build one of the new gen 2 shockflyer because there a little bit bigger. You can use your 1080 kv outrunner in it but I would recommend a smaller battery to keep the wing loading down closer to where your tensors would have been something like a thunderpower 860 (although im not sure on the weight difference between your etec 1200 and the thunderpower 860 but it might not be worth if you want the extra long flight times) , and for a receiver it depends on where you will be flying gws receivers are only single conversion but if you are not having any problems with glitching then use it. You can always swap out for the berg later if you are having interference problems. The generation 2 shockflyers are also stronger than the old ones.

    _____________________________

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    www.devinrocks.com

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    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/25/2005 6:17:55 PM   
    Mike Wiz


     

    Posts: 557
    Joined: 1/28/2002
    From: Linden, MI, USA
    Status: offline     		I see a lot of people using 3S based power setups for their heavier outdoor power systems. In fact, some people seem to think this is the only way to go. I use a relatively hot wind AXI 2208/26 and a 2S 1320 pack. I get fantastic power out of that system with an APC 10.x3.8 and can fly 3D nonstop for 20 minutes.

    I just thought I'd suggest a different setup that I know works very well.

    Wiz

    (in reply to Devin McGrath)
           Post #: 10

    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/25/2005 7:09:11 PM   
    Devin McGrath



    Posts: 647
    Joined: 4/24/2004
    From: Rochester, NY, USA
    Status: offline     		wiz the 4 amp is the same weight as the cc10 amp

    _____________________________

    Devin McGrath
    www.devinrocks.com

    (in reply to Mike Wiz)
           Post #: 11

    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/25/2005 8:44:51 PM   
    Mike Wiz


     

    Posts: 557
    Joined: 1/28/2002
    From: Linden, MI, USA
    Status: offline     		I thougt as much by just looking at them, but I didn't actually know.

    Thanks!

    Wiz

    (in reply to Devin McGrath)
           Post #: 12

    RE: Light 'n Heavy Shockys - 2/26/2005 2:37:30 PM   
    dick Hanson



    Posts: 10191
    Joined: 12/12/2001
    From: slc, UT, USA
    Status: offline     		Guy (son) and I have been building a room full of different models -trying to find some definable parameters for indoor /outdoor.
    It is trickier than I thought.
    The indoor "zippy " performers - under 6 ozs AUP - that is a given
    But wingloading ---
    we increased size overall at low weight (under 8 ozs 400 squares)and the models still perform - but differently - you fly more slowly and slow hover at low AOA, is much more solid.
    For outdoor - the feather weight indoor -is a looser - they simply drift too easily
    So for outdoors -it's back to the 10-13 ozs stuff at 300/ 350 squares .
    The only real change here is in higher power (Hacker 20 22l outrunner etc..)
    The full fuselage Knufflel -is one of Guy's projects.
    It is very stiff and flys outdoors (calm air -just like a big glow pattern bird (Guy did the ELAN and ELITE years back)
    all up -6 ozs motor Air World $19.95 CDRom on 3 cell and GWS8x4 - Very quick!

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    < Message edited by dick Hanson -- 2/26/2005 2:43:31 PM >

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    Libby

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