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Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/6/2005 3:53 PM   
hakko1872003


 

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From: IE, IRELAND
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

I have just been out with my wot 4. It is a dead calm morning. My problem was slowing it down for a landing. When it finally came in its undercarriage ripped off upon contact. you can see the damage done in the pic.

Will I just use plenty of 5 minute epoxy as I have all the parts?will this be strong enough?
Also I was using nylon bolts,how come these didnt just snap saving the fuse?

How do you guys slow your planes on landing when is no wind?

Hakko

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/6/2005 4:13 PM   
blueberry


 

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Status: offline 		Hakko,

I would put those peices back in with either Ca or epoxy. But you definatly have to beef that area up inside. I would fit a peice of thin aircraft plywood in the bottom, drill it to fit your landing gear back in then use square or triangle stock in the corners.
Also whats up with all the lead? That may contribute to a fast landing! I would take the lead off and balence it out by moving your radio gear around or your engine a little fore or aft or both.

Hope this helps,
Pete

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/6/2005 7:11 PM   
Campy



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Status: offline 		As blueberry said, put the pieces back together. I suggest using 3/8" or 1/2" triangle stock between the fuselage side and the "plate" you are gluing back in for additional strength.

Nylon bolts, provided they are not oversize, will shear off about 80%+ of the time in a HARD crash. Personally, I feel that if (when ) I crash hard enough to shear the landing gear bolts, the little bit of damage it may save is neglidgable. I also feel that there are certain areas I do not want to skimp on to save a bit of weight. These areas (for me ) are the motor mount to firewall, motor to motor mount, landing gear and firewall to fuselage joint. Wing hold down bolts I typically use nylon bolts.

Do not use 5 minute epoxy - it is quite weak. You want to use 30 minutes epoxy. Both epoxies will require 24 hours to get their full strength, however, my experience has shown that the 30 minute epoxy is 3 - 4 time stronger than the 5 minute epoxy.

You also need to get rid of all the lead. From what I can see in the photo you have about 3 1/2 oz of lead attached to the plane. If (when ) you have to attach lead to balance the plane, you want it as far forward or back as possible. By doing that it radically reduces the amount of weight you need to add.

If the WOT is electric (I seem to remember something about them being electric ) shift your battery pack around to balance it out. If it is a glo powered plane, attach your weight to the firewall if the plane is tail heavy, or to the end of the fuselage under the horizontal stab if it is nose heavy. In either case, try shifting the battery pack around first and/or using a larger pack (more MAH, not more cells ).

Another option would be the DuBro "Crankshaft weights". They come in 1 oz and 2 oz sizes that are used in place of the prop washer. Most spinners will fit over them.

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/6/2005 7:48 PM   
blueberry


 

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Status: offline 		Hakko,

Thanks for the clarification Campy, I definately agree with you, It looks to me as that was a definate weak spot just waiting to splinter! I personally don't like to add any unnecessary weight, unless it's a bigger engine! But a little extra wood in weak areas doesn't amount to much added weight!

Pete



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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/6/2005 7:50 PM   
hakko1872003


 

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Status: offline 		Its glo powered..I donno about taking off the led becuase the nicd pack is totally fixed in with wood to keep it still and I have no CG Machine...

How do ye guys slow down your planes without any wind to do it for ye?is it just a case of fly it way out and just blip the throttle to keep it flying to the strip..

Thanks for your help.

Hakko

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/6/2005 8:15 PM   
blueberry


 

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Status: offline 		Hakko,

You are going to have the glue and wood out for your repair any how why not move the battery around then. I am by no means an instructor so I think I will let some one else
answer the rest of your question. I'm sure somebody can help.
How long have you been flying?

Pete

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/6/2005 8:52 PM   
hakko1872003


 

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Status: offline 		Iv been flying for around two years now.I wouldn't amount to much as a pilot though.
I am after having such a bad day! I have just done in three planes some way or another! Now I have nothing to fly...see my recently redesigned blade!!!!

That isnt the only damage and I wold consider it a write off I am going to get another blade probably or do you guys think I should get something else??

Hakko

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/6/2005 9:10 PM   
blueberry


 

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Status: offline 		Hakko,

Dont be down on yourself. It's all a learning curve. I blistered my first nitro trainer into the ground on it's maiden flight. Not much left but tooth pics. She was back in the air in a couple
months. Are the electronics still good in your Blade the rest is just foam. I'm goin to get a fomie up and flying soon I made one for somebody else now I need to make one for me.

Pete

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/6/2005 9:23 PM   
hakko1872003


 

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Status: offline 		yeah,
All the electronics seem in good order..do you think I should just glue everything back together or just get another Blade?

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/6/2005 9:31 PM   
blueberry


 

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Status: offline 		I would glue it Use it as your trainer then maybe get another that you will be able to keep nice.
And transfer your electronics to it after you learn.
I know when I build one I'm going to make some spare parts. I'm sure it will hit the ground a couple times!

Pete

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/7/2005 3:26 PM   
hakko1872003


 

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Status: offline 		I will make this my workhorse!
And I have actually made out a template of all the foam parts before I assembled it. Where can I buy this EPP in sheets to make the plane myself? And what is best to cut it with?

Hakko

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/7/2005 5:22 PM   
blueberry


 

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Status: offline 		Thats good that you have templates, alot of people use Depron or Ultrafoam they have to be imported into the U.S. but maybe its accesible in Ireland. You could do a search on here and maybe find a place to get it near you. I use a CNC mill to cut the foam but you can use a hot wire or just a sharp razor knife.

Pete

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/7/2005 8:51 PM   
Campy



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quote:

ORIGINAL: hakko1872003

Its glo powered..I donno about taking off the led becuase the nicd pack is totally fixed in with wood to keep it still and I have no CG Machine...

How did you balance the plane initially ? If you know where it is supposed to balance, make a balance machine from a piece of 2x8 and a couple of dowels. Here is a link on how to make one:

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/hobby/bjig.htm

I just drilled some 9/64 holes 2/3 of the way through the 2x8 and used 1/4" dowels with "arrow" point eraser tips on the ends. Just make some marks on the wing where it is supposed to balance and put the "point" of the eraser on the marks. If you feel you want/need the balance machine more stable add some extensions to the edges of the 2x8 (or 2x4 or 2x6 )

As for the battery pack - I hope you wrapped it in foam. If you haven't, wrap it in some 1/4" thick foam and secure the foam together with regular masking tape. Then cut a piece of self adhesive velcro. Fasten one side to the masking tape. After you have found your balance point, remove the backing from the other side and adhere it to the fuselage side or bottom. The velcro will hold it in place in all but the most severe crashes and the foam will prevent vibration damage to the soldered connections on the battery. If you don't have a place to secure it to, get a piece of 3/32" scrap balsa and cut a piece to fit in the area you need and CA it in place.

How do ye guys slow down your planes without any wind to do it for ye?is it just a case of fly it way out and just blip the throttle to keep it flying to the strip..

I do my down wind leg at about 1/3 throttle, as I turn on my base leg I reduce throttle to about 1/4 and when I turn onto my final, I reduce my throttle to about 1/8 - 1/16 (depending on wind ). I am reducing my height as I do this. When I come across the end of the field I am about 3' off the ground.

Then you FLY THE PLANE down until the mains are about 3" from the ground. (Do not just reduce the engine to an idle and "float" down - you will have very little control of the plane because you will almost be at stall speed. )

At this point reduce your throttle to 1/16 - idle (again, depending on wind) and add in A LITTLE UP ELEVATOR AND HOLD IT (about 2 - 3 clicks worth ). What you want to do is bleed off speed, not balloon back up. The plane will settle right in.

It will take a little practice, but after a couple of tries it will be automatic - you will do it without even thinking about it. Remember, use the ailerons to keep the wing level and use the rudder for turns. Use the throttle to control your height NOT THE ELEVATOR.

Thanks for your help.

Hakko


All it will take is a little practice to get it down pat.

Another thing to remember, heavy planes need to fly faster to stay in the air, so the lighter you can build/have a plane, the slower it can fly and still stay airborne.

< Message edited by Campy -- 3/7/2005 8:55 PM >

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/25/2005 7:57 PM   
hakko1872003


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Guys!,

I have epoxied back in the floor to the fuse.
I will try reduce the amount of lead and move the nicd pack.

To Slow the plane I have setup airbrakes with my radio:
I set the ailerons both to raise up at the flick of a switch. Should I also add some elvator to raise or lower the nose?

Campy,
Thanks for the link to Balancer, does this work well for you? I am going to make one some time..

Thanks,
Hakko

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 6/27/2005 8:55 AM   
braydan


 

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Status: offline 		Hi

i have been doing model aircraft for a few years (25 years or something like that) i started out with rubber powered and those are all about weight and balance. anyway take off the lead in the front and use something to balance it in side the aircraft (less drag). you can use modeling clay.i started out as a aircraft engineer in the marines and started to fly not long after. so i no a little it about weight and balance! on landing don't dive at the ground that only increases your speed. try to keep it leave and use about 1/5 of the throttle to keep it in the air it takes practice but it will all be for the best.back to balance. if it tail heavy can try to move the controls closer to the front and move the battery around. if nose heavy move the controls back and battery alike. also if tail heavy seeing how it is tri gear use a heaver weal on the front.not bigger but heaver.

respectively
braydan aka LT.frog
vmcj2 NC cherry point
ooh rah

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 4/12/2008 3:06 AM   
martin5793214


 

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Slow the plane I have setup airbrakes with my radio:
I set the ailerons both to raise up at the flick of a switch. Should I also add some elvator to raise or lower the nose?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do not use what you are calling as (airbrakes, ailerons up!) what you are in fact doing is called (spoiling), which does not slow the plane, it reduces the lift of the wing, this is only good in high wind landings or moveing around on the ground in high winds,and to prevent unwanted takeoffs, it you use this spoiling its likely your wot4 will just stall and drop out of the air on its final.
What you need to do is flick your ailerons down as flaps, which will let you slow the plane down further without stalling, and give you a slower landing speed, you will have to setup some down elevator to stop the nose raising when flapailerons are applied.
I have had lots of wot4`s in my time and never needed to put lead in any of them,if you put all the servos in the places as discribed in the plans, and say put a 40cu glow engine in it,you will just need to move your RX battery to balance the plane, if you have the CG, mark it with a pen on the bottom of the wing,say 50mm each side of the fuz, and then use your finger tips of each hand under
each wing to see if it is nose or tail heavy. CG is about a 1/3 of the cord from the leading edge.

Hope I was of some help
martin

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 4/12/2008 7:45 AM   
KC36330



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quote:

ORIGINAL: martin5793214



Do not use what you are calling as (airbrakes, ailerons up!) what you are in fact doing is called (spoiling), which does not slow the plane, it reduces the lift of the wing, this is only good in high wind landings or moveing around on the ground in high winds,and to prevent unwanted takeoffs, it you use this spoiling its likely your wot4 will just stall and drop out of the air on its final.



this was a 2+ yrs old thread but..............

what was described is called 'Crow' and it creates considerable drag and is very effective in braking, we use it quiet often on turbine jets to bleed airspeed for landing.


< Message edited by KC36330 -- 4/12/2008 7:46 AM >

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/8/2012 3:53 PM   
Bodge



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Status: offline 		It's not crow if you are just using up ailerons. That is spoilerons.

Crow is where ailerons and flaps are separate; ailerons go up, flaps go down causing maximum drag. The wing is fairly stable in this configuration because the up aileron acts as big washout.

Good fun with an Ultra Stick using crow - it will dive vertically down without overspeeding and you can pull up into a landing at the last second. Ailerons don't work well though...

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RE: Wot 4 UC Ripped off... - 3/8/2012 10:29 PM   
diggs_74



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Status: offline 		One other thing to remember (looking at all that lead) is that a nose heavy aircraft will longer to slow down than something "less" nose heavy.. A more aft CG will allow the tail to droop and increase the angle of attack of the wing causing more drag that bleeds the speed off. Of course, if you go too far to the rear with the CG it will make the aircraft overly touchy on the elevator.. Hence the term balance


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