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Still Looking - 9/19/2002 12:57:39 PM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		I am still looking for a full fuse former set of plans for an ME 109. I have the meister and the brian taylor plans and they will not meet my needs as they are basically box consdtruction. I been on this project to build a 1/3 scale 109 for abt a year and a half but so far haven't found adequate plans to blow up and dont have time to redesign a fuse. Let me know if you know of a designer with a fairly large scale 109 already that is a framed up fuse and not box construction. I need full fuse formers to enlarge to 1/3 scale and keep the weight down.

Joe

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109 plans - 9/19/2002 4:32:37 PM   
shindin


 

Posts: 154
Joined: 12/13/2001
From: grovetown, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Dave Platt's 109 plans should be the ticket.... 79" span, and full-formers, also scale outline.... his is the "g" model, but sure that the others could be done as well, lmk if you need gear for it....
L

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       Post #: 2

Platt - 9/19/2002 6:00:53 PM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks shindin but Last winter I did his spit for a client and swore never do another of his. maybe it is just the spit but i didnt like carving most of the fin and also didnt like the way his fuse built as it just hung there on a couple square sticks very hard to make sure your fuse stays straight while sheeting. etc. I had a complete article on the construction on my old website before the server shut down. if i can find a backup of it I will post it on my new website.

Joe

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Still Looking - 9/20/2002 7:58:21 AM   
Heavybird



Posts: 94
Joined: 6/6/2002
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Just curious, what was the problem you had with the Platt Spitfire?If you are looking for a "full former" fuselage but at the same time bulding one such as the Platt Spit gives you trouble, what other kinds of full former construction are there? Box and stringer maybe?

If you have been on the project for a year and a half what part of the 1/3 scale 109 do you have finished? I would love to see a big A$$ 109!Do you have any plans for kitting this model? Please let us know.

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Airspeed Altitude? we don't need no stinking Airspeed and altitude

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109 - 9/20/2002 8:15:00 AM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		I been researching and working on finding the right set of plans for 1.5 yrs. at one time I did work on a mockup of the cockpit area which came to around 4 ft ling and 15 inches wide.

My problem with finding the right plans is take for instance a Ziroli plans it has several fuse formers which make up the shape of the fuse connected with stringers. Now you Look at Brian Taylors plans or Meister and the fuse sides are slabs of balsa with top and bottom partial formers to give top and bottom rounded shape. Now the problem is if you try to blow them up to a 137 " ws plane thats a lot of wood and not very strong unless you use blocks of balsa. Thus it would not be safe nor a very effective construction technique because you would also be adding a ton of weight to the plane. With full fuse formers and stringers the frame is very strong and light weight.

At 1/3 scale I wont jump into it just to build one I wont start it until I know that the plane i redisign will be safe and not fall apart and kill someone.

As for the platt spit the fuse is designed on a couple square center sticks then you have to rig something up to hold it to the proper shape then sheet it. the fin and several other areas use blocks of balsa you have to glue in p[lace then carve to shape.
Basically his plans also will not work at that scale. due to structural integrity. Thus I am back to square 1 finding a set of plans and it gets expensive buying sets and finding out they the wrong construction.

One guy had mentioned he had a set of plans from some european designer that would work for my needs but had a system crash and had to fdisk my hd and start over thus I lost my contact info. But Sooner or Later I will get a set of plans I just need to find some european websites that sell plans form the european designers.

Joe

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Re: 109 - 9/20/2002 9:02:42 AM   
Oryx


 

Posts: 198
Joined: 6/17/2002
From: Pretoria, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by ProfLooney
Now you Look at Brian Taylors plans or Meister and the fuse sides are slabs of balsa with top and bottom partial formers to give top and bottom rounded shape.
[/QUOTE]

Hi Joe

I have noticed you asking about 109 plans that you can blow up and a few times you mentioned this about the Brian Taylor 109. I was going to ask you - do you have the Brian Taylor 61" F-model or do you have the 68" E-model plans?

I have the plans for the 109E, and construction is a little different than what you explained above. The forward part of the airplane is indeed a central box/crutch, but then formers are glued to the sides, bottom and top (or sides and top in the region of the wing seat). The rear part (from the cockpit back), is built on a crutch built of 1/4" square strips. Each former is split in two with an upper half that goes on top and a lower half that goes on the bottom of the crutch. The whole fuselage (sides, bottom and most of the top) is then sheeted in 3/32" balsa. The only part made of thick sheet that has to be sanded to shape is a 1/4" strip of sheet over the top of the turtledeck behind the cockpit that has to be blended into the rest of the sheeting. Oh, the vertical fin is also not built up but made of balsa sheet, although I am sure you can make a built-up one if you want. Due to the relatively small size of the fin the shaped sheet-version is probably the easiest and quickest to make.

Now, this sounds a little different than what you described. So, I was wondering if it is possible that the slightly smaller 109F plan by Brian Taylor uses a different method of fuselage construction than the E-model? If that is the case, maybe you can "borrow" the construction from the E-model and draw it into the outline of the F-model that you already have, if it is an F or later airplane that you are interested in.

I think my explanation of the fuselage construction is correct - I haven't built it yet, but that is what I remember from last time I looked at the plans...

Regards,
Ben

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       Post #: 6

109 - 9/20/2002 9:11:39 AM   
ProfLooney



Posts: 2413
Joined: 1/18/2002
From: Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Ben I have the F model. I am trying to stay away from any type of box construction even poart of it. While I am looking I took advantage and traced the entire fuse with corel and working on creating formers when I have the spare time. the tail etc on this is built up and I think given time I can get it redesigned I was just hopeing I could find someone with a set of full former fuse. I appreciate the offer though.

Also by posting was hoping the guy that told me he had a set would see the post and get ahold of me.

Joe

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Re: 109 - 9/20/2002 9:19:00 AM   
Oryx


 

Posts: 198
Joined: 6/17/2002
From: Pretoria, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline 		No problem, Joe. I am glad I picked the E-model now and not the F - I am also not very fond of this slab-construction-sanded-to-shape thing. I haven't built a Ziroli yet, but from what I have seen I really like his construction methods. At the same time I really cannot complain about the detail, accuracy or construction of my Taylor "Emil" though - it should turn out quite nice.

Good luck and I hope you find what you are looking for.

Ben

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       Post #: 8

Re: 109 - 9/20/2002 7:34:07 PM   
BernieG


 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/26/2002
From: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by ProfLooney
I been researching and working on finding the right set of plans for 1.5 yrs. [/QUOTE]

here is what I found in about a 10 minutes research.....If you are looking for a German bird, look at german plans....

[URL=http://www.vth.de/shop/shopfiles/product.asp?TID=7NAXFTSM7IBD&PS=1&PID=1590]http://www.vth.de/shop/shopfiles/product.asp?TID=7NAXFTSM7IBD&PS=1&PID=1590[/URL]

Scale is 1:3.8, so if you want 1/3 you will not have a big jump. From the picture, it looks like a K model.

Bernard

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       Post #: 9

Still Looking - 9/20/2002 7:49:23 PM   
Richard L.



Posts: 8775
Joined: 7/28/2002
From: Redmond, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Does Brian Taylor have a website? I am interested in his E-model plans. Where can I hunt down one of these plans? Thanks.

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Still Looking - 9/20/2002 8:03:42 PM   
Edwin


 

Posts: 3440
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Leander, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Prof,
I hesitate to do this cause it hasnt flow yet, BUT!
Can you read .dxf cad files. About 3 years ago I drew up plans for the E model and have since built it. I created my plans from 3-views in the squadron book and Scale aircraft Vol2. The plane is framed up and sheeted at this point. You're welcome to use them if they will work for you. The full size plans are at 62" ws but can be easily scaled up to any size. I drew it to as exact scale as I could. There is at least one obvious flaw I didnt catch until I built it. The fuse contour at the wing root trailing edge isnt right, but could be easily fixed. I cut the formers in half to build bottom fuse, then build top fuse on top of the bottom frame. Was easier that way. I also do strip planking on the fuse. The plans dont show that, just expected knowlege.
Edwin

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Still Looking - 9/20/2002 8:43:18 PM   
k_sonn



Posts: 1143
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Bellevue, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Richard:

Bob Holman is the US distributor for Brian Taylor plans. His web site is [URL=http://www.bhplans.com]www.bhplans.com[/URL].

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       Post #: 12

Still Looking - 9/20/2002 8:59:37 PM   
Richard L.



Posts: 8775
Joined: 7/28/2002
From: Redmond, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Kirk.

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       Post #: 13

109 picture - 9/21/2002 6:28:31 AM   
Heavybird



Posts: 94
Joined: 6/6/2002
From: Nashville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Proflooney,

I too have built the Platt 109 (3) and Spit and a Mustang and agree that the jigging up of the formers in mid air presents a difficulty factor but it does yeild a very strong and light structure. However I haven't heard of a better way to make a fuselage with full formers that are skinned other than to do it that way.

Maybe once you have the formers you could stack that one on top of the other in correct position and place a hole or series of holes thru all of them. A rod or dowel (very long in your case) could then be used to align and support all of the formers while the model is sheeted. Once sheeted the rod or rods could be removed. Just a thought.

Also, I have a little experience with a full scale 109 close up. A friend was fortunate enough to have a friend that owned a 109. Actually it was one of the battle of britain 109's which was a Hispano Ha 1112 but from firewall back it was a G - 6. I was allowed to get very close to this aircraft at my liesure and was allowed to sit in and measure or anything else I wanted.

As it turns out, that is one small cockpit. You may want to double check your figures for the cockpit area you mentioned earlier. From canopy to canopy sill is just about 25 inches side to side. That is measured from the outside skin to skin. the rails were a little over two inches wide. The opening from which you enterd the cockpit front to back was about 32 In