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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/21/2012 1:34 AM   
coriolan


 

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Status: offline 		Would be worth trying short straight pipe as used in rat racing 40 c/l in the 90's

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/21/2012 1:52 AM   
aspeed


 

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Status: online 		They never made much difference. Mostly keep the plane clean.  Ucktam used to have one.  An F2A pipe would be ok, but not cheap.  Profi?  There used to be a boat manufacturer that carried them for a .15, but they were discontinued. I can't remember the name.  I think they were chinese. I'll edit the name in if I can remember it.  A dune buggy pipe may do something with modifications.(straightening out)

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/21/2012 3:50 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		Open exhaust is the lightest possible configuration and if the engine is going on a small delta, that would be something to consider.
Plus, you can't beat the price of open exhaust.
Just out of curiosity, what is the approximate exhaust duration of this engine..?
Is it anywhere close to 180 degrees..?


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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/21/2012 4:03 AM   
forsakenrider


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg
Just out of curiosity, what is the approximate exhaust duration of this engine..?
Is it anywhere close to 180 degrees..?


From the point that the exhaust port starts to open and then closes again? I would say its maybe a hair under 180degrees. dang close though.

Open exhaust is cool for me but trying a pipe would be new fun too.



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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/21/2012 4:27 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		If it is that close to 180, then it probably could use a tuned pipe to good advantage. The problem is the cost..it is quite a commitment to that engine.
The other consideration is how well made is that engine internally..?
If you can somehow find a used pipe for a good price......possibly find out compatability with other engines in that size range to expand your search.
This much timing will make the engine seem like it's an "under-acheiver" unless it has the tuned pipe installed.
On a little delta, you want to know in advance how the engine will be equipped because establishing the correct CG takes more planning than with a "regular" airplane.
The exact location of the engine / firewall is one of the last things you should do after the plane is all framed up and the onboard gear is situated where it needs to be mounted. With the ASP.12 delta, I ended up cutting out the firewall and moving the engine back after it became obvious that I had guessed wrong with a workable location.
The CG needs to be the high priority..!


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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/21/2012 4:49 AM   
forsakenrider


 

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Status: online 		thanks for the info CP.

HERES A CALL OUT FOR A TUNED PIPE! anyone have one? macs and gz are around 40$ and thats pushing it. I dont want to double my engine price in the pipe!
Quality of the engine seems fine to me. Id say is about par with a VA mk1. Not amazing, but should get the job done.

I dont even know, is a 6x4 at 20k any good?

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/21/2012 5:11 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		6x4 @ 20,000

HP calculator says it's good enough to get the plane up to 75 mph and put out about 24 ozs of thrust.



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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/24/2012 7:16 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: online 		Too bad they don't come with a pipe anymore.  The .15 was $50 including the pipe.  I just got one for the pipe and got a free motor as a bonus.  One motor was great, the other was a dud.  If you want to fiddle around to save$, you can use a straight piece of tubing and put an adjustable tailpiece that is necked down to around 4 mm.  A simple machined plug that seals is all that is really needed.  Just keep pushing it in from the back until it speeds up, and then a bit more and it should be about right when it unloads in the air.  Maybe 5/8" tubing or so. There used to be an Australian company made a larger version of this for larger motors about 20 years ago.  They used thin walled stainless steel tubing, but alum. or a high temp plastic may be better if you can find it.

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/25/2012 7:29 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: online 		Aquacraft used to have a .15 pipe reasonably priced, but I don't think they carry it any more.  A pellet gun cartridge with a piece of tubing brazed on the front could work too.

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/25/2012 7:54 PM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/javapipe_en.htm
This is a tuned pipe calculator.
I would target 28,000 rpm.
If the pipe can't be made as light as a feather, then it adds more weight than it's worth.
I don't know "brazing rod" sold for aluminum work will hold up to the heat generated by a .09 engine.
Mac's pipes might use a technique I've seen used many years ago. It is true gas welding with cobalt blue lens that allow you to see inside the yellow flux / gas cloud and focus on the puddle.
I saw it done with acetlylene but IIRC hydrogen works better for finer heat control. You really need fast hands and the technique is to "dab" heat at the work.
Aluminum hoops [or rings] should be used at seams to act as couplings. Either that, or figure out how to offset flange for tight slips fits. This complicates the development of your parts patterns.



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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/25/2012 8:39 PM   
lfinney


 

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Status: offline 		mac's uses a acetylene torch with atmospheric feed, no oxygen bottle, and allied brazing rod 1100 series if i recall correctly, flux is is same and uses half water and half rubbing alcohol

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/25/2012 8:55 PM   
forsakenrider


 

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Status: online 		What about a simple megaphone style pipe? would it help?

Or maybe a mouse can? I have limited supplies for metal work.

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/25/2012 9:40 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: online 		I think the converging cone at the proper length makes the power.  I thought the pellet gun cartridges were steel.  Aluminum could maybe be siliconed like the mousse can mufflers?  The mousse cans are pretty big for a little motor and would need to be 1/2 of the length for double the rpm's of a, say .40.  Maybe a used rc car pipe with the curved front part cut off and something added to make up for the length.  Those guys change pipes all the time and might have a few spares for cheap(er).  I would have to dig around old stinky magazines to find the picture of the Australian pipe with the thin tubing idea.  There was basically just a plug in the back with a hole.  You would need some thin tubing like plumbing copper tubing, but lighter. Clarence Lee did a test back then and doubted the idea, but was surprised.

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/26/2012 12:14 AM   
lfinney


 

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Status: offline 		megaphones work as well as tuned lengths of straight diameter tubing, mousse can's are the cheapest and probably the best bang for the buck, short of a used tuned pipe. the megaphones only scavenge and extract....so they use tons more fuel...

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/27/2012 1:49 AM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		I think a pipe can be home made with just basic materials and basic hand tools.
A drill motor strapped or clamped down to a work surface can work as a wood lathe.
Use the pipe calculator to design a pipe, then lathe one out of wood
If the drill motor only holds a 1/2" dowel, so be it. Glue a bunch of scraps of wood all around it to build up enough meat to satisfy the size requirements of your pipe.
Make paper patterns of your wooden pipes' sections and transfer to thin sheet aluminum [sold by K&S]
The aluminum sheet can be cut with scissors or scored several times with a scribe and snapped off.
I'm almost positive that a Mapp gas or propane torch will do a nice job with the aluminum solder kit..I believe that's all I used.
Aluminum is very workable stuff, you would be amazed. Have a stainless steel wire brush handy to scrub the metal before soldering, it HAS to be stainless. I'm not positive what thickness aluminum would work best.. .030" is a guess, maybe thinner.
The exhaust header flange would take some patience to hog out with a series of holes, dremel tool butchery, hand files, etc.... but I've done it.
I forgot until this afternoon that I built a header this way for my CVA .15 and it has held up really good. I bought a section of curved aluminum tubing from Mac's [they might have just given it to me?] and I hacked out the exhaust flange. I made a mandrel to pound into the end of the tubing to make it rectangular. This part might take some practice.
Some time later I tried to make a header for a .35 with the solder and it eventually got too hot and failed. The .15 just doesn't generate as much heat I guess. This is why I'd practically guarantee this should work with the .09.


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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/27/2012 2:18 AM   
Dan Vincent


 

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Status: offline 		I have a pipe for this CSTKAM 1.5 cc engine and also one for a CS .09 FIRE.

I'm pretty busy this week with horse stuff but could take photos and measurements one of these days.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/27/2012 2:48 AM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: online 		I have no personal experience at all with pipes-but I know that Bolly Props (in Australia) have been making pipes in carbon fibre for years. From what I know these are generally for the larger .40-120 engines-I know they use high temp epoxy to impregnate the cloth with, and doubtless do an oven cure. But it would seem a possible alternative to fabricating your own from thin section aluminium sheet...........

.....as I understand it, the Bolly pipes are made around a wax mould (with a central aluminium rod core) that is machined to the internal dimensions of the pipe. The pipe is laid up in C/F cloth, cured, and the wax mould simply melted out once the epoxy is set (or more likely cured), and the central rod simply pulled out. Presumably, in use, the exhaust gases burn away any remaining traces of wax. If you have a dental supply firm locally, you should be able to get your hands on suitable moulding wax...........
.........on reflection, for an 09 size pipe-a decent size domestic candle might be big enough to machine to a suitable shape...........

I don't (never having used a piped motor) have a feel for how hot an 09 size pipe would run at 20,000+ rpm compared to an R/C pattern engine at perhaps half those revs. One of the advantages of a C/F pipe-and though I've never used one I've certainly spoken with guys who do use them-is that they don't rattle and resonate the way thin walled aluminium ones do. In using the term 'resonate' I'm not referring to the pipe operation, but to the generation of additional noise from the pipe walls vibrating.

ChrisM
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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/27/2012 3:42 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: online 		I like the candle idea!... Now I have to do some thinkin'.  Maybe wrap the aluminum duct tape around the candle form a few times with an aluminum header and tailpiece.  There used to be silicone mufflers for F2D combat motors, as far as I know they worked ok, and they were strong motors.  Maybe a mixture of these things would work if you can't find high heat epoxy. They may not be pretty though. The back of the pipes aren't real hot, but the fronts get pretty hot, and there is a  lot of pressure.  It is easy to blow out silicone tubing joiners on the bigger motors anyway.  The pipe shown on the previous picture looks the same as the ones I have for the .15 size Ucktam.

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/27/2012 6:38 PM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: online 		aspeed-you're right-I'd forgotten about the silicone rubber mufflers for combat engines-and I have a couple of very early (from the early 80's) Davis diesel muffler throttles for the Cox 020 and 049 which were simply a piece of silicone tubing with a diametric hole in it. You simply pushed the piece over the cylinder till it lined up with the exhaust belt, and you had the option of squeezing the two ends of the tubing for more muffling and a bit of throttling......silicone works-providing you have the right composition and its thick enough to take the pressure.........

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/27/2012 6:46 PM   
coriolan


 

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Status: offline 		Silicone wouldn't do for a tuned exhaust because its too flexible. When used to connect a tuned pipe to the header it is important to have as little a gap as possible to avoid the pulsing of that part with each cycle.

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RE: CSTKAM-1.5 UCTKAM(0.09) - 11/27/2012 8:21 PM   
aspeed


 

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Status: online 		Silicone may work for joining two or three parts together instead of soldering/welding though.  There was a company that sold an after muffler that made a bit less noise too. It was sold for a while and disappeared after a while.  It seemed like it was the same material and construction as the exhaust diverters that everyone uses.  It would be ok if it is thick enough maybe.

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