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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Helicopter Fuel
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Helicopter Fuel - 9/23/2002 10:36:20 PM   
RCPAUL


 

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Why do most helicopter flyers favor all synthetic fuel rather than having some castor? I would think because of the lower airflow that they would like some protection that the castor can give.

RCPAUL
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Helicopter Fuel - 9/24/2002 8:42:28 AM   
downunder-RCU



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From: Adelaide, South Australia
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Well never having had anything to do with helicopters I can only take a guess but it seems they use lots of nitro (about 30%) which probably doubles their fuel consumption. So even if they're using 18% oil the oil flow would be the equivalent of close to 36% oil in normal low nitro fuel. Plus of course the high fuel flow would give a lot of internal cooling. I must admit I'd still be using some castor if I ever went to helicopters though

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Helicopter Fuel - 10/5/2002 7:57:18 AM   
fritzthecat



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For one thing, helis don't have the propeller airflow over the engine and castor fuels leave behind that nasty brown deposit. This stuff bakes on and soon the engine overheats because heat can't transfer. The castor also builts up inside the engine and changes the compression ratio, sticks piston rings and clogs passages in the exhaust pipe or muffler. Heli mufflers run about U$100 and up so I sure don't want any stains on mine. AND, (I'm gonna get it for this) most heli pilots are much more anal about engine tuning, quality of fuel / oil and glowplugs and more knowlegable about the mechanics than aircraft flyers. I estimate that over 90% of heli pilots use full synthetic oil. The other 10% fly electric.

Fritz

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Helicopter Fuel - 10/15/2002 10:35:01 PM   
GMPheli


 

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I started flying planes about 28 years ago. Back then, mufflers were unheard of, full power starts were the norm, (we didn't know that they would actually start at idle), fuel contained only castor as a lubricant, and no one ever ran their engines dry or used after run oil. And guess what, we hardly ever had engine problems. When I started with heli's a while back, I showed up with Sig heli fuel which was 50 percent castor, and 50 percent synthetic. I was told not to use castor because it would cause all sorts of gumming and other problems. So I didn't. I ran Cool Power 15 percent with 4 oz. of Klotz sythetic per gallon. It ran fine. My first 60 size was a GMP Competitor with an OS 61 FSR. It was old, and I got it used cheap. I put new bearings and a ring in the motor. At the end of each day, I would empty the fuel tank, and then run the engine dry. I would leave the nistarter on, and spin it over until it all firing stopped. When I got home, I would remove the glow plug and put in after run oil (50 percent Marvel Air Tool Oil, and 50 percent automatic transmission fluid). When putting in the after run oil, I would always notice that the engine was "stuck". It would take a moderate amount of force to break it free, and then it would turn over normally. I also noted that the bearings never really felt smooth, always a little rough or gritty. I built my next heli, a PHI Huricane with an OS SFN and it acted just the same. So now I'm onto my next project, a Bergen Intrepid with an OS 61 SX that I have a brand new Performance Specialties AAC piston liner for. If you have never installed one of these, the fit is very very tight at TDC. PS recommends that you install it lubed with automatic transmission fluid, and turn it over by hand about 50 times. Then take it out, clean it and lube with Mobil 1 synthetic and then run it. I did the tranny fluid thing, but didn't have any Mobil 1, so I used the Klotz. It still turned over very hard at TDC, and if you stopped there, it would stick and take a huge amount of force to break free. In the mean time, after 3 cases of fuel through the Competitor, the bearings really started feeling gritty. I tore the motor down, and the rear bearing was shot. Not rusty, just really notchy. So I figure it's time to try something different. I got some Sig castor, and mixed 2 oz. Klotz, and 2 oz. castor to a gallon of CP 15 percent. Ran it in my Hurricane, same drill, run it dry at the end of the day. When I got home, guess what, the engine wasn't stuck, and the bearings felt smoother! So now I know that I am going to break in the SX in the Intrepid with castor. I pull the head off, clean out the Klotz, and coat the cylinder liner with castor. Reinstall the head and, OH MY GOD! It turns over SO much easier and smoother. It will still stick if you stop at TDC, but it doesn't take anywhere near the force as before to break it free. I broke it in with a gallon of Sig 10 percent heli, 50/50 castor synthetic. Since then I have run 2 gallons of Red Max 20 percent nitro with 18 percent synthetic that I have added 3 oz. of castor to. When you turn it over by hand, the bearings are silky smooth. I have an onboard temp gauge, and the back of the head is running at about 220 degrees. There is no baked on castor at all on the engine, but there is some on the bottom of the pipe. I figure this is because the pipe runs hotter than the motor. I recently pulled the head to try different head shims. I expected to find the top of the piston and head all black. Wrong, nice and shiny and clean. I think that the only time you will get baked on castor is if you get the motor too hot. I can deal with the baked on castor on the muffler. I will just cook it in antifreeze once a year. As for me, I will continue to use a castor sythetic mix in my heli's

Alan Angus

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Helicopter Fuel - 10/24/2002 1:26:36 AM   
Furyflyer2



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We only use synthetic because that's what makes are (95% of the heli community) engines run sweet and that's all I use in my planes to. Also for ALL the reasons fritzthecat stated.


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Helicopter Fuel - 11/12/2002 5:00:48 AM   
tdriver



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Joined: 11/9/2002
From: Athens, GREECE
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I tried them all in my Raptor60,synthetic castor and a blend of both.
after flying,castor is hard to clean,especially on the muffler and engine.
the only reason I don't use castor anymore is that the muffler is getting very "brown" in a very short time,sometimes the same day,and every one or second week antifreeze-cooking is a pain in the "rear". even the castor-synth blend is showing drops of Castor all over the muffler after a few flights,and if you hover a lot,than it's even worse...............so,no more castor for me, at least in my heli.

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