Cybertom

Well I finally started on the Flair Tiger Moth kit my Wife bought me for Christmas. I put the Gladiator project on hold until this airplane is completed.

This is another really nice kit from Flair. The documentation is good but not quite up to the standard of their Stearman kit. The fuselage takes more time to build than the Stearman but it's going to look really nice when it's done. This kit is actually slightly over 1/4th scale. It has an 89" wingspan. Their Stearman kit is slightly under 1/4th scale and also has a 89" wingspan. Why 89"?

tschuy

My Feedback: (1)

Where can you get the flair kit's?

I'd seen a completed SE 5 from one and have always liked it but never been able to find who carries them.

Can you point me to your source?

Thanks in advance...

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I will definately be watching this build Cybertom...because I have this kit waiting to be built. I probably won't get to build until next year though.[]



tschuy:

Here are two sources in the US

http://www.thirdcoasthobbies.com/

http://www.radicalrc.com/

As listed on the flair website; http://www.flairproducts.co.uk/

tschuy

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks P-51B,

Probably will be ordering from http://www.thirdcoasthobbies.com/


Cheers,

Cybertom

Have you ever built a Flair kit before? I just love them. The BIG Flair kits like the Tiger Moth and Stearman are their Top of The Line offering. Flair States that their Stearman kit is their best. I have already built the Flair Stearman and it's a sweet kit.

These kits are not for the guy who is rushing to get done. These are beautiful kits with lots of pieces that fit intricately together to make a very strong but light airplane. Even though the Tiger Moth instructions aren't in a book binder with lots of photo's like the Stearman, It's my bet that they are better than most you’ll find.

More light ply than you would think, but not as much balsa as you would guess. Nothing in the kit is Laser cut from what I can tell, but the quality of the Die cut parts are excellent.

I'm planning on a Laser 150 to power this bird. It seems to be the hands down favorite of the Flair Tiger Moth crowd in Europe. I've never owned a Laser engine, but from what I have read, these are some of the best engines made. Besides, what can be better than an English engine in an English kit of and English airplane. It's all very English to me! God save the Queen!

Here's what I'm hoping she will look like:

tschuy

My Feedback: (1)

No I've never built from a Flair kit before. But I've seen my buddies from when I lived oversea's and was really impressed.

For me about 60% of the enjoyment of this hobby is the building. Then the remaining 40% is seeing something that I've built fly. So I tend to take my time when I build. Attention to detail and making everything square and straight.

Thanks for the links and I'll be ordering a kit soon. I do like the Tiger Moth kit.


Cheers,

Doug D.

I'll be watching your build Cybertom. I have the Flair Tiggy waiting for me to get to it. In between other projects I've been building a Flair Bristol F2b. Very much a builders kit. "NOT" for the first time kit builder. Lots of parts to assemble. The Tiggy looks to be very much the same.
What engine are you planning to use? I'm thinking of using the Saito 1.50 or 1.80. The Laser 1.50 that they used in the prototype is a bit to expensive for me, but I have considered it.
Have you gotten any other accessaries? The pilot or markings? Just Curious!!!
Seen one fly at the Joe Nall Event in 2003. The gentleman who was flying it said that I would really enjoy the build as well as the flying.
Hope Flair comes out with another large biplane kit in the future.

Cybertom

Boy I hope they do come out with another BIG bipe. We can start a petition. I'll tell you what; I have fallen in love with the Gloster Gladiator. If they come out with one of these I will scrap my own Gladiator project and buy theirs as soon as it's available.

I am learning a 3D CAD system and I was drawing up my own plans for a 1/4th scale Gladiator. I have collected 4-books and some really good drawings on the Gladiator. I am going to England because of work in a few months and was planning to take a trip to Duxford while I was there. They are restoring a real Gladiator at Duxford. I want to take some photo's and key measurements to so my plans are hyper-scale. If I need to diverge from scale for technical reasons so be it but at least I want to know when I'm doing it and by how much.

In my opinion, it is the perfect next airplane for me. The Gladiator is a real fighter not a trainer. It has duel ailerons and great overall proportions. Pilots that have flow the real Gladiator say the maneuverability will take your breath away. It has roughly the same proportions as a Stearman but is over twice as fast:

Stearman max speed 125mph. Gladiator maximum speed 254mph (not bad for a bipe). That translates into around 63.5mph 1/4th scale max speed. Couple that with outstanding maneuverability and she ought to be a real handful up in the air!

I don't know about you but if I saw that thing screaming down on my six with guns blazing, it would scare the crap out of me!

Cybertom

Fuselage
Attached rear fuselage to forward section. The one area where Flair could have improved the method of costruction was to have the fuselage formers in 2-pieces (upper and lower). You can't lay this thing down flat and join the rear fuselage section to the front and then add the rounded shape of the upper formers.

Laser Alignment
I used a laser level to line up both pieces of the fuselage. I place the airplane on it nose on a stool. I took my camera tripod and attached my laser level to it. I shot a vertical beam at the fuselage and lined up the center of the tail section with the center of the fuselage formers. I then rotated the fuselage to make sure it was aligned on the side. You wont believe this but it sat on their almost perfect. I glued it and adjusted the sections using the laser to get everything lined up perfectly. I clamped it down and bingo, this morning it's dry and it's aligned perfectly

Glue
I am using Tightbond II glue for the first time. I have used it for the majority of construction so far. I only used epoxy to attach the hard wood landing gear and cabane strut mounts. Tightbond II is a Cross-linking polyvinyl acetate that seems to combine the best characteristics of Aliphatic Resin and Polyurethanes. It's strong, sands well, water resistant and shock resistant (flexible). It tacks up fast and holds really well. It turns a slight yellowish color after it's completely dry. So far I'm impressed.

tschuy

My Feedback: (1)

I've used Tightbond II glue on pretty much all of the airplanes that I've built for the same reasons you have stated. The glue is great and works really well when bonding sheet material together for making wing skins, and sheeting up the fuselage. It adds minimal weight too. Incredibly strong stuff, just yet it sands easily as you have seen.


Cheers,

EdwardB

My Feedback: (6)

I've been working on the same kit for the past 8-10 months, and have it covered now. Final paint and maiden flights will be in the next several months. I'm using the Laser 1.50. I agree this is an outstanding kit, and a fun build, but for expert or very experienced builders only. Here are a few pics of mine in the bones.

tschuy

My Feedback: (1)

Very nice work Edward. I'm impressed....

The more I see of this kit in this forum, the more I'm thinking that I need to save a few more $'s to get the same kit...

Where did you get the instrument panels..


Keeps the pic's coming...


Cheers,

EdwardB

My Feedback: (6)

The panels were custom made by Joe at Diamond Panels. He advertises in RCM, High Flight, etc. His email address is <[email protected]>. They turned out great.

Cybertom

Edward, those photos are outstanding! Your Moth looks excellent! Keep em coming! I want to see what she looks like after you paint it.

1. What did you cover it with?
2. What kind of paints are you going to use?
3. What scheme are you planning to use?
4. Another Flair Tiger Moth with a Laser 150. What was the deciding factor for you to choose a Laser 150?

How about a first flight video down the road? This can turn into a really excellent thread with contributions like this!

EdwardB

My Feedback: (6)

Cybertom -- Thanks for the compliments! Here are quick answers to your questions.

1. What did you cover it with? It's covered with silver and yellow Solartex.

2. What kind of paints are you going to use? The silver Solartex is fine. It won't need anything. The yellow is pretty translucent, and also not exactly the right shade. I'm going to overspray it with satin yellow KlassKote. The cowl and other painted parts (gear, interplane struts, etc.) will have satin clear KlassKote over spray can colors.

3. What scheme are you planning to use? Silver and yellow G-ANFM. It's my current avatar. You can also do a search and find pictures of it. Pretty simple scheme to duplicate.

4. What was the deciding factor for you to choose a Laser 150? Quite a few factors, actually. I wanted something that fit completely inside the cowl. My field has a strict noise requirement, and I knew the Laser would be no problem. I've had all the others (O.S., Saito, YS) and have always wanted to try the Laser. Yes, it's a little more expensive, but actually not that much more than either O.S. or Saito since I would have had to buy an aftermarket muffler to fit reasonably inside the cowl. BTW -- I've got my whole set-up (radio, engine, glow driver, gyro, etc.) in a quarter scale ARF Super Cub (Hangar 9) to test and prove out. Flew it some last fall. The engine is just outstanding. I couldn't be more pleased.

How about a first flight video down the road? Great idea! I hadn't thought about that, but will try to arrange for that. Probably won't be for a few months. I've got another airplane on the workbench right now, but it's almost done, and it's now warm enough in Michigan that I can get the Tiger Moth painted and done. I'll also try to post some new pictures.

AlphaWhisky

Cybertom,

I too have a Flair Tigermoth kit and a Laser 150 under the bench but I just can`t seem to get near it at this time.

I`m also a big fan for the Gladiator and have taken initial steps to prepare a plan for one around 77" span. I intend for mine to be a sport-scale model with easy flying in mind rather than a museum quality effort.

If you`re going to the UK, you may be interested in obtaining a copy of the old 'Complete-a-Pac' plan which has a simple yet practical approach to this subject. I think the original plan is for a model of around 60" span.

You should be able to track it down through 'RC Model World' magazine which is one of the Traplet publications.

Good luck with your project(s).

Alan W

Cybertom

Sport scale is great. Don't even think that I am capable of museum quality. I wish!

I just feel that this airplane has a really unique history that should be preserved. I may not have the cash to fish one out of a frozen lake in Siberia and have it restored, but this is a small part I can play in preserving a unique piece of aviation history. Each time we create a miniature replica of any historic aircraft we are in a small way turning back the pages of time. That's what I'm trying to do, preserve a little history and learn about it at the same time.

I will be forced to make changes because as we all know you can't just shrink everything by a factor of 4 and get it to work. Here's what my Gladiator model would look like if I shrank it by a factor of 4:

Wingspan=96.75 inches
Length=82.25 inches
Empty Weight=862.5 pounds
Power=207 HP

I like the Wingspan and Length but I don't think OS has anything big enough to pull that brick off of the ground. It really is amazing how size can make such a significant difference. I may have scaled down the airplane, but I didn't scale down the effects of the world. If I start to think about how subatomic particles behave my ears start to bleed. The challenge here is figuring out what has to change and by how much to making the little one fly like the big one.

Please post some pictures of your Gladiator as you build it. It would be a great thread.

phoon

Would be interested if you fellows could give a quick run down of the more noteworthy tools which are desirable to build this model (aside from the expected sanding blocks, exacto blades):

1) How many and what size of clamps, triangles, levelers, etc?

2) Especially interested in Cybertom's comments about the GP magnetic building board kit he is using: Does it hold up and is it worth the money?

3) EdwardB, did you use another approach, and could the Tiggie be built with straight pins into ceiling tile (mounted on a building board) just as well?

4) Cybertom, you mentioned using titebond II this time. How does it compare to the most often chosen alternative, medium CA (which I think you used in the Stearman)?

5) EdwardB, what do you think about Titebond II Vs Medium CA?

Thanks in advance for any comments posted.

Cybertom

Wood Glue
I used plenty of Loctite WOOD WORX glue on the Stearman. It's a very good Aliphatic Resin and has a great tapered applicator end on the bottle. I am working with Titebond II glue now because after researching different wood glues, I believe Titebond II is superior to anything else out there.

Great Planes 2-Hour Epoxy
I used 2-hour epoxy from Great Planes. I found that several brands actually harden much sooner when mixed in larger quantities. Great Planes epoxy always dried in 2-hours no matter how much I mixed up.

West Systems Epoxy & Reinforcing Materials
I can't say enough about West Systems products. They have the best Epoxy and a wide variety of reinforcing materials. I glassed the joint where the fuselage sides join to the firewall, and along the floor to reinforce the landing gear mounting points.

Thin CA
I did use some Thin CA to initially pin down stringers on the Stearman but I reinforced every joint with WOOD WORX glue. The problem with CA is it fractures easily and it doesn't stand up to heat at all. CA is only popular because it's fast and convenient not because it’s the best glue.

Great Planes Magnetic Board
I like my magnetic board. I bought some extra magnetic clamps and it will do everything for me except a really long fuselage like the Stearman has. In that rare exception I bought a long flat maple shelf board from Home Depot for $10.00.

Tools
Assorted Great Planes Easy-Touch Bar Sanders & Sand Paper, 4ft Level, 2ft Level, 90-Triangle, X-ACTO Razer Miter Box w/Saw kit, a box of 100-X-ACTO blades, and Quick-Grip clamps from Home Depot.


If you have a really flat surface to work on your ready to go!

EdwardB

My Feedback: (6)

I can't add too much to what Cybertom posted regarding adhesives. I used about all of them on my Tiger Moth as well. A lot of parts in the kit are plywood (looks similar to Luan, but I'm not sure that's exactly what it is) and I agree thin CA isn't the best for this especially. I find that dusting and even making small filets with baking soda and then using thin CA really works well with this material though.

Regarding tools, nothing too special. I have a small drill press, bandsaw, and disk/belt sander, all which were used throughout the build. But nothing unusual there. While a flat surface is very important (it is for all kit building!) there isn't too much of the traditional pinning and building over plans. On the Tiger Moth, the rear half of the fuse sides are built this way, but most everything else is built over a flat surface, with tape, clamps, etc. Couple more things though -- on the Tiger Moth there is quite a bit of metal fabrication, including cutting, bending, drilling, soldering, and even several places where brazing is required. You will need the right tools and the skills to use them. The landing gear is a thing of beauty, but it's really quite a lot of work. There is also the upper wing cabane, and lots of little brackets and wires to make for the wing rigging. Also important for this model is an incidence meter. Even when covered, the wing panels are not rigid. Getting all the rigging set up properly is a bit of a task, and the incidence meter is critical. I used a Robart, but took off the supplied meter because I didn't find it very accurate. I use a small digital level (SmartTool) across the incidence meter beam.

My Tiger Moth build is almost done. It should be ready for its maiden flight in the next 1-2 weeks. I'm just finishing up all the little details right now, including painting the pilot, installing the wind screens, etc. Everything else is done, covered, radio and engine installed, rigging and controls completed, etc. It came out to 17 pounds exactly, although looks like it will need a little bit of nose weight to balance (not unusual). My target weight of 18 pounds looks achievable. I'll post some pictures when I get a chance. I'm also hoping to video the maiden flight, but we'll see.

phoon

Edward B,

Am probably set up OK for soldering, cuting, and drilling. Not sure about bending and brazing.

1) By brazing with respect to the Tiger Moth, do you mean the use of a propane torch with silver solder and brass? If so, would like to know the size of propane torch you used.


2) Did you have to bend the cabane and landing gear thick steel, or was it pre-bent? If so, what tool set-up did you use for this?
(Think Harry Higley sold a special tool for bending thick piano wire a few years back. Not sure it is tough enough for the cabane and LG size wire in this kit)

Think you did exceptionally well to end up with an 18 Lb. bird. Could one move servos and battery further forward in order to avoid adding nose weight? Or further lightening of tail feathers?

Thanks, Peter

Cybertom

I used a 40Watt Weller soldering iron with a wide flat tip for all of my silver soldering. The wide tip is for maximum heat transfer. It's all you will need for most any aircraft solderng job.

EdwardB

My Feedback: (6)

Cybertom --

1. The brazing recommended in the Tiger Moth instructions is for a couple of joints on the landing gear, and for the flat stainless to threaded adapters for the wing rigging. I used a Microflame gas torch, model 4400, with Micronox gas. The rest can be done with regular solder or silver bearing solder. I used Sta-Brite, which I've always had good luck with.

2. All the wires in the Flair Tiger Moth kit are pre-bent, so you don't have to worry about that. The bends were all pretty accurate too. The bending, cutting, drilling, etc. is on a number of flat steel and round brass fittings. For the steel, they give you a number of pre-cut parts, and you have to bend them, drill new holes, some soldering, etc. For the brass, they give you pre-cut lengths of tubing, that you also cut, flatten, drill, etc. All can be done with a vise, drill press, etc. Nothing hard, just lots of parts.

3. I put mine all together today, and it's going to take a little more than a pound to balance. Maybe two or a little over. I still will be inside the recommended weight of 16-20 pounds. With 2300 square inches of area, the wing loading at this weight will still be very light. I'm not worried about it. I don't think there's too much opportunity to move the servos. All is completely laid out with the fuse parts, plus they line up with the rudder and elevator bars for the pull/pull cables. If you haven't seen the plans, you probably don't know what I mean. But moving the servos around really isn't an option, in my opinion, and wouldn't help all that much to move an inch or two forward. I also don't know how much opportunity there would be to lighten the tail, without heavy modification to all the supplied and nicely engineered parts. I put a tailwheel on mine, so that probably caused a little extra nose weight. I have the battery and glow driver in the nose of mine already. I could use a larger battery (I'm using a 5-cell 1100 NiCad pack) but again I could double or triple the size, and still need nose weight. In my experience, with these type models and glow engines, nose weight is not unusual. Again, at this weight and wing area, plus the way this is designed to fly, I really wouldn't recommend moving around or changing things.

I'll post some pictures of mine snapped this morning, almost ready to go. I just need to finish painting the pilot (note he looks a little pale!) and a couple of other small details. The version I modeled (G-ANFM) has letters on the fuse and wings, that I'm going to add later probably using cut vinyl. Right now, it looks a little plain without them. I'm going to be on vacation coming up, so maiden is still a few weeks away unfortunately.

EdwardB

My Feedback: (6)

Here are some updated pictures. Note a couple of these are the same views posted earlier while still in the bones.

vicarh

My Feedback: (1)

Edward,

That plane is fantastic! Any chance for some construction details/photos on the landing gear? I am building a plane of my own design (loosely based on a senior telemaster) and can use a gear very similar to yours.