RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (Full Version)

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tomcatguy74 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/27/2005 3:31:18 PM)

oops, where did you get those PFS-09 servos? And they work on the Walkera DF #4?

Thanks

Rob
quote:

ORIGINAL: oops

The servo's aren't great... Just replace them. I know it will cost nearly $50, but it's worth it.

I tried HS-55 and they were OK for a while, but are too sensitive to noise for the WK4.

I got some cheap ($22) "Manufactured in China" PFS-09 "Park Flyer R/C Servo's", which have been great. I originally bought them for the tail servo for my Walkera 22a (which flew for the second time today - last flight before I replace the tail gears...). They are good. Very resistant to noise.

Unlike all other servo's I've tried, they don't budge. If you turn the receiver on and off, they remain steady... Not a sound. And since you have center stick when you turn off the transmitter/receiver, they don't move when you turn on either. I literally have to swivel the stick to see them move.

They are a little slow, but fast enough for a WK4. And now I am getting some nice hover... Just dealing with the "Power Cut" problem now... I'm starting to wonder if I have a bad battery connector or maybe a broken aerial wire. Some time I will replace the copper wire with a multicore.

I've gotten mine to take off straight up to a stable hover now. Just add power... But like most Walkera 4's it needs constant attention.
Still I've flown it inside for the first time... Not bad with just 50cm clearance in four directions. Most flights end in grief, but I've kept it close to
center for a 10 to 12 seconds. You need about 1m to 2m clearance in each direction to fly it inside well.

I went through 10 tail rotors. I always buy one more than I have fitted. (Always keep a spare). The original had longer legs than the cheap replacement tailrotors I get from modelshops. I originally put a wire tail on, fixed in 2 spots, but it eventually got bent out of shape. I only went back to the stick today. I got some 1.2mm wire, folder the end 3mm, and stuck it in the hole next to the motor. Then I bent the end around in a half-circle and hooked the end around the tailstick. It keeps it from moving into the tail-rotor arc. A stick of 1m long 2mm carbon stick is only $8, so get some. You will need it. Make the tail stick a centimeter longer. And run a diagonal wire down the line of the tail flag (which I got rid of anyway) and make the end "Bouncy" :)

That slowed down the destruction of tail rotors a lot for me! Also, I've thought of gluing the broken hub center from a tail rotor to the bottom of the tailstick.

The Walkera 4 isn't too fussy about CoG. They are close anyway. Moving the battery isn't hard, but a few grams at the tail doesn't matter.

My Main rotors are badly chewed out now from impacts... I'm even starting to wonder if that's causing the Gyro to glitch, but the thing still flies, and
when it's not glitching, it's quite good to fly.

The biggest thing with the Walkera is to fix up the head. Clean up any extra plastic.

Also, you usually need to make the blades tight, and they work much better with a 8cell battery :) Much longer flying times.

Anyway, my experiences with the Walkera 4 have given me an idea what is needed in a training heli :) Maybe one day I'll design some simple changes and suggest them to the factories :)

David




Crashnet2000 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/27/2005 5:36:14 PM)

does anyone know it the tailboom is 6mm or 8 mm ? if it is 6 mm is there a possibility to change it to a thicker ?
Can i change my carbon to a aluminium bar ? Do you think it will effect the perfomance or lift on the helicopter ?



tomcatguy74 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/27/2005 10:24:50 PM)

Got a question here.

If the 4 in one system fries in my heli is there a new system I can get for under $100?

Also, how good is the Ducted fan system? Does it work pretty good?


Just a thought valid or not.

Rob



thecheatscalc -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/27/2005 10:56:06 PM)

you should... what Rx is it using? and can Xtals be used in any reciecver? if so you could get a seperate GOOD gyro ($30), and a 6ch board ($25-40) which is well with in your budget, or you could get a GWS 4in1 for about $25, look HERE

as for the duct, well it WILL save tail rotors so they should never have to be replaced again, I think the're brushless so it should work great. But me personally I don't like the looks that much but don't let me discourage you from getting one!



tomcatguy74 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/27/2005 11:39:30 PM)

Hi Cheat and Everyone!!

The heli is not even here yet. It is this package:


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Dragonfly-4-4CH-R-C-Electric-Helicopter_W0QQitemZ6001076412QQcategoryZ2563QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I am just speculating for the future. I have heard about these 4 in 1 systems having parts fall off just from the heat. [:)]


As for the ducted fan tail system will it add weight to the tail?

Another question is,

This heli simulator that is coming with the heli, will that or FMS work with windows XP and will I have any probs using it? Is it possible to use the radio above in the package with the FMS on a windows xp computer?

One of the reasons I bought the above package was because it comes with a simulator and I can learn to fly with it instead of killing my new heli and because I don't have the money to buy those expensive real flight and high end simulators.


Rob



tjh1255 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/28/2005 12:31:20 AM)

i recently purchased a wlakera #4 and for some reason it does not want to hover more than 4 feet off the ground, in addition, i have full left trim on the yaw control and it still wants to yaw to the right, is there a way to adjust the gyro, please help



Schwede -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/28/2005 2:27:56 AM)

tomcatguy74,

I never got the simulator that came with the helicopter to run on my XP computer; however, FMS works fine. To get the transmitter to work was another challenge. Here is a link to a website that will help you set it up:
Dragonfly #4 setup



tomcatguy74 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/28/2005 9:59:49 PM)

Hey Schwede,

That is an awesome link man, thanks alot!! It has a ton of info for me to learn about my new heli.
How hard was it to set up FMS and your radio on windows XP. Does it work at 100% efficiency?

How much have learned flying on the sim and how exact are the controls to the real thing?

Rob



Schwede -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 3:08:14 AM)

tomcatguy74,

Nothing can beat the real thing, but the sim will teach you what the controls do and how the helicopter reacts in general. It is good to practice nose and side in flight. I use it quite a bit after my batteries die on the helicopter.. Better, commercial simulator like RealFlight G3, Reflex and AeroFly are a bit more 'lifelike' but cost as much as the #4 itself...
The radio works great using PPjoy. The challenge was that my com1 was used by my pocket pc ActiveSync software. com2 was enabled but it did not want to work.. Had a great flight with my #4 today. I used a Li-Po batterie, which lasts much longer![sm=thumbup.gif]



tomcatguy74 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 3:31:46 AM)

Schwede,

The real question I am asking is will that FMS sim teach you how to fly the heli properly?

What about realflight g2 and this Aerofly sim? Can you use the Dragonfly's radio with them? I have found them cheap on ebay.

Is RF G2 pretty good for heli sim?


Rob



tjh1255 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 5:03:24 AM)

Does anyone know how to adjust the tail rotor power, mine keeps yawing to the right, even with full left trim



chris6414 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 1:49:43 PM)

Schwede, are using a 2 or 3 cell LiPo? I'm researching and I have found with my stock setup, I need almost full power to fly with my 8.4 pack. With a 2 cell, the fully charged voltage is right around 8.4 and it would seem that if I wanted more climb power, I would need a 3 cell with the higher voltage to get that. I was wondering also your capacity and what real flight times and performance your getting. I'm not too trusting of what the manufacturers state for flight times. I'm thinking that with the 2 cell the helo will fly well and be much lighter which will equal good climb rate as well. I'm trying to stay close to stock weight as these little helos are touchy enough. Any insite on your findings is appreciated.



Schwede -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 2:09:51 PM)

tomcatguy74,

G2 Ang G3 are using it's own Radio, I tried to set it up with the dragonfly but it did not recognize it and was 'looking' for a specific input signal. AeroFly can be adjusted to use your Dragonfly through PPjoy. I am using it and find it the simulator pretty 'lifelike'. I think simulators will give you the knowledge to start and practice your 'moves'. Try FMS to see how you like it and then decide if you want to get into more realism. I would not want to be without a simulator.

Gunnar

quote:

ORIGINAL: tomcatguy74

Schwede,

The real question I am asking is will that FMS sim teach you how to fly the heli properly?

What about realflight g2 and this Aerofly sim? Can you use the Dragonfly's radio with them? I have found them cheap on ebay.

Is RF G2 pretty good for heli sim?


Rob



Schwede -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 2:17:18 PM)

gysgt6414,

I am using a 2 cell LiPo 1100mah, 7.5 volt and get about 7min 'real' flight time (more then a foot off the ground). A 3cell would not fit in the original battery bracket. I have a hard time to sqeeze the 2cell into the bracket. I need almost full power to lift, but once at the desired hight I can take it back to just about 3/4. When I got the Heli, I had real trouble with my flight time even with the LiPo. I am using different (stock) rotors and it works great now!

Gunnar


quote:

ORIGINAL: gysgt6414

Schwede, are using a 2 or 3 cell LiPo? I'm researching and I have found with my stock setup, I need almost full power to fly with my 8.4 pack. With a 2 cell, the fully charged voltage is right around 8.4 and it would seem that if I wanted more climb power, I would need a 3 cell with the higher voltage to get that. I was wondering also your capacity and what real flight times and performance your getting. I'm not too trusting of what the manufacturers state for flight times. I'm thinking that with the 2 cell the helo will fly well and be much lighter which will equal good climb rate as well. I'm trying to stay close to stock weight as these little helos are touchy enough. Any insite on your findings is appreciated.



chris6414 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 2:37:28 PM)

Me too, I've been twisting and clipping and it seems like I have found the right length and pitch by am now looking into more duration and better power. i figured if I went with the 3 cell I would have to fabricate a tray or bracket to hold it. I'M getting 4-6 minute, low altitude, flight time with the stock packs. thanks for the info. What capacity MAH lipo are you using?



Schwede -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 3:48:20 PM)

gysgt6414,

I am using a 1100mah, 7.5 volt LiPo.
Funny thing with the blades is that the 'originals' out of the box where not working for me since the helicopter 'powered out' after about a minute of flight, and I could only bring it up to about 6-12 inches off the ground. I had purchased some spare blades and compared them visually with the ones of the helicopter. They seemed to be the exact shape and lenght but when I tested the spares, I got a way better flight performance out of them. They must have just a slight difference to them..
What kind of mods did you do to the blades?

Gunnar



chris6414 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 4:26:33 PM)

I had 2 sets and on one I clipped 1cm off each tip on one set. That worked to bring up the head speed but the blades still had too much pitch in them because the helo kept yawing to the left from the increased torque/drag. I bent them both out in increments until the head speed came up even more and the lift seemed acceptable. I then took my other set and clipped about 2 cm off each tip and that worked good and the torque spin to the left was even less so now my rudder trim is almost centered. The stock blades I had just had way too much pitch and curve to them so the rudder couldn't compensate for the increased drag. I had read of a guy taking a towel and an iron and ironing out some of the pitch and it worked well without clipping the tips. The stock blades are very durable, it's just finding the right pitch to get this bird to fly well with them. With my 2 cm clipped blades yesterday, I flew for almost 7 minutes hovering and for the first 3 I had to throttle back to keep the altitude to about 4-6 ft. After 5 minutes I couldn't get over 1 ft but I could still keep practicing. I think I found the right mix for the 2cm clipped ones because when it wouldn't lift any more, I could here the motor dying out and when I checked the pack voltage it was at 8.1 volts and would dropped off in a second or two. So, I think I'm getting the max out of my packs.

I'm now going to play with the pitch on the 1cm clipped blades and see if I can get the same performance. The helo should be a little more stable with the longer blades as well. Also, moving the weights in will give better cyclic resoponse and it doesn't take much. I want to eventually get back to stock length and get back some more stability. When tweaking the blades I found that you have to watch the time as you'll only have about 3-4 minutes of good data collection to see if what you are doing is making a difference(taking out pitch). If you lose head speed in the process of taking out pitch than you've passed the point of good power with the battery.

I wanted to add, that with the stock batteries, you need to run them through at least 5 cycles to get the rated capacity and time. The time I'm getting now are much better than when I first took it out of the box. I also charge by temp. About 1-2 hours is normal and I will charge until the pack begins to get warm. I also found that I need to bump my packs prior to flying for a few minutes. If they sit all night after a good charge they lose a little just sitting. I must say I'm suprised about your flight times with a pack of that capacity. I figured you would be able to get twice that time especially since that LiPo is most likely, half the weight of the stock pack. Maybe a few cycles and you will get better times.[8D] Keep me posted on your progress and I'll do the same.



Schwede -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 5:54:51 PM)

gysgt6414,

Not sure about the weight of the LiPo compared to the stock ones. For me they just about feel the same.. I prefer the LiPo since I can just put it on the charger and do not have to watch out for the temp. I busted one of the two stock batteries already. It was never on the charger for more than two hours but it is leaking a bit and not holding the charge for long. One of the cells is most likely busted. I will get a couple more LiPo's to have in my pocket when taking the heli out.

Gunnar

[image]http://www.rcuniverse.com/gallery/galleryimages/lg-26677.jpg[/image]



Schwede -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 7:29:31 PM)

..had a couple good crashes yesterday [:@]. Came down from high up way too fast. The secont time I seen the tail rotor fly off and I thought @rap, there goes the rotor [X(].. But turns out that it just came off and was not damaged [:D] Great little machine!



Dragonuv -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/29/2005 7:57:25 PM)

Hello, guys.

I am new to this hobby. After hearing good things about the Dragonfly 4, I finally took the plunge and bought a used one off ebay. The heli arrived yesterday. I tried to fly it but it would only lift off a few inches off the ground and seems to move backward (pretty fast). I checked my transmitter and noticed that the the left throttle stick left and right do not control the speed of the tail motor. Also, on the right stick, the forward and back move the servos but not the left and right. Is this normal? Is this helicopter capable of moving left and right or just forward/back and turn left and right? Any advice/help would be very much appreciated. Thanks!



oops -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/30/2005 12:21:18 AM)

Hi Dragunov,

You may have a mode-1 controller - See if the left stick controls the left/right servo.

If so, the right stick will control tail rotor speed.

This can be reversed easily by switching the wires in the transmitter and moving the spring and friction plate.

David



tomcatguy74 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/30/2005 12:25:42 AM)

Hey Dragonfliers,

As you all know my heli should be here soon, what kind of upgrades can I do to my #4?

What upgrades should I be concerned about first?

Do they make a light kit for the dragonfly?


Rob



Schwede -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/30/2005 4:30:32 AM)

Some good models and scenery for FMS here: rc-sim

Gunnar



oops -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/30/2005 11:47:50 AM)

Hi Tomcatguy,

The best mod for a Walkera 4?

Probably a LiPo.

after that?

Maybe a better tail motor, but wait until yours burns out.

Next?

Light aluminium skids? Foam canopy?

You can also upgrade the rotors, but the standard ones can be made to work pretty well.

I'd say just learn to fly it :)

David



chris6414 -> RE: Walkera #4 Fixed Pitch Helicopter Forum (9/30/2005 2:21:39 PM)

I second that, My first upgrade was my motor heat sinks as they get pretty warm practicing. I just ordered a LiPo (11.1 850 MAH) to see how that works. I agree that the stock blades are great and boy are they durable. You just have to get the right pitch in them and they work fine. A twist here, a bend there and your airborn. I practice at a park that has a concrete pad that measure 15 ft X 11 ft and it has big pines close by with one right next to the pad. If I hover off the conrete I set it down and try again. The othe day I was practicing and a gust grabbed the helo and slipped it into that Pine Tree [X(]and it slung the tail rotor, gear, shaft and bearing. I had it back in the air in 2 minutes giving her another go. This is one tough little bird. [sm=thumbup.gif]On the first page of this thread, there was a guy who put a T-Rex main gear and tail fin on a #4 and it looks awesome. They have some really nice heat sinks for both motors at Heli-hobby.com as well as head, canopy and a slew of other upgrades. Just learn to fly it first then you can dress it up. The sinks are common parts and they only cost about $16 shipped. [sm=greedy.gif] I went ahead and fabbed my own for now with some aluminum tubing and a dremel tool to cut a few fins in them.

http://www.helihobby.com/html/HBIRD_FP3.html



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