MAAC membership reasonable?

MAAC membership reasonable?
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MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/5/2005 7:54:05 PM

4*60

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Joined: 3/10/2002
From: Blind Bay, BC, CANADA
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Let's hear the arguments whether $75 per year is a reasonable fee for membership and insurance.

Should the magazine be optional or twice a year?

My opinion: The budget needswork. $75 is too much for what I get, but I am held hostage by the insurance and the ability to fly at other clubs with a MAAC membership.
The old news in the magazine does very little for me. The MAAC web site should be the source of news in this modern world. It can be near real-time vs 2 or 3 month old news.
$4 million suit with $5 million actual policy...coincidence..hardly....If the policy had been $2 million the suit would have been for something in that neighbourhood. Why would a lawyer sue for dollars that would be difficult to collect,but the insurance policy may pay off easily so it's worth the try.

_____________________________

"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." the other Dennis Miller

Post #: 1

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/5/2005 8:06:50 PM

britbrat

Posts: 3299
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Deep River, ON, CANADA
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I don't think that $75 is really too much --- provided that the extra money really does cover current and projected shortfalls. I fear that it may not, particularly in view of the possibility of significantly more expensive insurance in the future -- another accident & it will really take off.

$75 for insurance & a magazine -- not bad if it holds there for 5 yrs.

< Message edited by britbrat -- 4/5/2005 8:07:32 PM >

(in reply to 4*60)

Post #: 2

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/5/2005 9:02:02 PM

kevin mcgrath

Posts: 739
Joined: 1/24/2002
From: Sault Ste Marie, ON, CANADA
Status: offline

There is nothing new in your comments but I will answer them again.
I wont get involved in argument for the sake of argument or mud slinging.
"The budget needs work"
A thirteen person board and a five person executive just spent a total of three days paring,massaging,and forcing the budget to balance for 05.
These groups are made up of some of the hardest nosed business people in Canada,many small business owners.I can assure you they missed nothing.
The reality is the contingency fund is depleted after too many years of not raising dues,this years insurance is costing in the vicinity of $140000.,and we are being sued for $4,000,000.00 due to last summer,s accident.If you know some better way to address these problems ,please let us know.
Is $75 per year worth it to you? Only you can answer that .......its all a matter of priorities.
I do find it amusing that our yearly dues amounts to one round of golf at a good course,or one payment on a snow machine,but if thats a persons passion ,hey ,so be it.
Perhaps you should compare the dues with the AMA which gives you the same benefits except that their liability insurance only kicks in after a members personal coverage is exhausted.

"The magazine should be optional or twice a year"

This is a non starter.The first issue of the mag is the one that costs the money.Copies are pennies.Not everyone is on the Net.

"The MAAC web site should be the source of news"

I agree totally.The site is being re designed to be much more reactive and informative.
Zone directors and committee heads for example will have direct access to update their areas of responsibility so if you find the news stale,yell at them.
Do you know how many hours of design work go into a site like this? See the budget remarks above.

"four million law suit"

Dont blame MAAC.Like it or not this is the legal system that you and I have allowed to develop in our country.
Its the same one that keeps rotating a maniac through the system until he kills four mounties,or cant find anyone at blame after 20 years when an airliner is blown up killing hundreds.

These are my opinions based on five years as a member of MAAC,s board and starting into my second term on the executive.I hope they address your concerns.

_____________________________

Kevin
MAAC 6401L,CD.

(in reply to 4*60)

Post #: 3

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/5/2005 9:08:00 PM

reo

Posts: 231
Joined: 12/15/2003
From: Millet, AB, CANADA
Status: offline

Ultimately the fellow writing the check for his annual membership will decide if there is value for the $ or not when it comes to MAAC membership. If we see the membership numbers decline (likely so) we'll have our answer. The number of folks out there today that are refusing to pay MAAC, local club dues and initiation fees is increasing every year and the MAAC increase will only help this along. These same folks are flying wherever they can find a spot without any regard to nearby registered club fields thereby jeopardizing these club fields due to frequency congestion and uncertainty. As mentioned in a previous post, it may be high time that a critical eye be cast on the whole MAAC budgeting process, maybe it's time to admit that we cannot afford everything we have been able to do in the past.

(in reply to britbrat)

Post #: 4

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/5/2005 11:43:04 PM

Hughes500E

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Joined: 11/23/2002
From: Armstrong, BC, CANADA
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I can't help but think how much other hobbies cost. This is reasonably inexpensive compared to Golfing, Skiing, going south LOL
I'll gladly pay the difference, it has been a long time coming.

(in reply to reo)

Post #: 5

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/5/2005 11:49:36 PM

4*60

Posts: 1267
Joined: 3/10/2002
From: Blind Bay, BC, CANADA
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I agree with most of your points and don't wish to argue either.

My comments are that true, not everyone is on the 'net, but perhaps magazines and their inefficiencies for communication and their use of trees and energy for delivery don't make sense for every organization. We'll leave that because there are strong reasons either way.

Yes, I do know how many hours it takes to design and manage a site. That's why I didn't bid this time on the site contract.

At 140,000 for insurance, that is about $14/member which actually isn't too bad, in my opinion, but don't let the insurance industry read this.

The "contingecy fund" issue is very real and should be a given with everyone, but perhaps there were expenditures in the past that could have been controlled. What's done is done and we now face that situation. True enough!

Thanks for the comments.

< Message edited by 4*60 -- 4/5/2005 11:50:22 PM >

_____________________________

"Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." the other Dennis Miller

(in reply to kevin mcgrath)

Post #: 6

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/6/2005 12:39:21 AM

kenair

Posts: 493
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
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Is it good value to pay $75.00 for $14 of insurance.

MAAC says it will build a contingency but wait until MAAC decides to host another FAI scale event and another lose $62, 400.00, the anotehr dues hike.

Keep in mind if $$ had been put in a contingency fund instead of the FAI travel fun for the last 10 or 20 years, we could have had a contingency fund of a 1/2 million bucks, but i suppose the personal glory of flying in a salt mine is more important to MAAC.

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[link]http://www.upaero.com/[/link]

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Post #: 7

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/6/2005 3:56:50 AM

reo

Posts: 231
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From: Millet, AB, CANADA
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At this point, the organization (MAAC) is very fortunate that membership is forced onto everyone that wishes to fly at a MAAC sanctioned club field in Canada. Imagine what would happen, if tomorrow, a national insurance company advertised that they were selling insurance policies to Canadian modelers direct for $25 per year! No one here is arguing that the insurance at $12 or $15 per person is STILL the bargain of the century, what is being questioned here is the money losing ventures that bleed the coffers of the other $700,000 or $800,000 per year.

Just to clarify, I have always been a supporter of this organization. I purchased 2 and 3 page ads in the magazine for 15 years give or take to the tune of thousands of $'s per year. I hope it has not come to the point where if some of the membership begins to question the MAAC budget they automatically become ill informed troublesome members.

I sincerely hope that the organization survives and flourishes. For this to happen expenditures will need to be kept under control and this may mean making some painful choices, not unlike any other business operating in Canada today.

Ron Oscar

< Message edited by reo -- 4/6/2005 4:01:26 AM >

(in reply to Hughes500E)

Post #: 8

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/6/2005 4:02:42 AM

pilotkelowna

Posts: 143
Joined: 12/28/2001
From: Kelowna, BC, CANADA
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Dead is dead is dead. C'mon Kenair, why do some guys have to dig up the scale meet business over and over and over. The Scale Meet is well behind us, and the 2004 World event in Red Deer is proof that major events properly planned don't lose money.

I was one of the few MAAC members who came to sit and observe the board meetings and the budget review which was discussed and adjusted line by line, with considerable gut-wrenching by all the board members - most notably when member services had to be cut back again this year to meet our expense target. You will be getting a hell of a lot more than insurance for your $75 next year and your ZD can provide the details.
If insurance is all some want their national association to provide for them, I suppose they could skip renewing their MAAC and easily buy a million bucks liability insurance somewhere else for $14. each.

(in reply to kenair)

Post #: 9

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/6/2005 4:05:21 AM

fledermaus

Posts: 222
Joined: 10/20/2003
From: Winnipeg, MB, CANADA
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Obviously, I would prefer not to have the dues reach $75, but on the other hand it is not unreasonable as membership dues for many other activities and hobbies go. I am willing to pay this if that is indeed necessary.

I am not going to get involved in bashing past, present or future executives for decisions made or not made. I will only ask the following question:

Aside from insurance, what do members of MAAC WANT to get for their money? Do past and current activities reflect what members want their organization to be doing?

Personally, (and please, I'm not saying you are wrong if you disagree) I don't want anything aside from insurance as a MAAC member. I am not interested in competition, I don't have the resources to travel across the continent for events, and I get all the news and RC info I need and more from the web. I fly with a great bunch of guys in my local club, and that's fine by me. I would rather put my money into improving our local flying field, but the bottom line for me is insurance.

Now, if the majority or even a significant plurality of members want MAAC to have a newsletter, or sponsor major events or whatever, then that's what MAAC should do, and the question becomes "How much must dues be in order to balance the budget?" But even in this case, MAAC (that is, US, the members) will have to make choices because we are not a huge organization and our budget will always have to put insurance first. We probably can't do everything that other RC organizations do. But, let's decide first what we want out of MAAC today and then we can discuss how much membership needs to cost.

And, let's not bicker about it. What the membership may or may not have wanted, or what the executive did or didn't do in the past are both irrelevant. The issue is what we want MAAC to be today, and how we are going to pay for it. That should be enough to work on.

(in reply to kenair)

Post #: 10

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/6/2005 5:58:40 AM

ira d

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/29/2003
From: Rancho Belago, CA, USA
Status: offline

I think you guys have a pretty good deal, here in the US we pay
$58.00 a year and the insuarance is not primary if you have other forms
of insurance such as homeowners .

I think everyone should get the same coverage if you pay the same
also we have more restrictions than you do.

the one thing i see in comon with both organizations is they monopolize
the hobby that is you have no other choises.

_____________________________

Ira d

(in reply to fledermaus)

Post #: 11

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/6/2005 6:17:58 AM

Sharpy01

Posts: 600
Joined: 9/9/2003
From: Kenora, ON, CANADA
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Personally, I'm ok with the 75$ as a yearly fee. I am also a magazine junkie and don't think we're at the cyber-stage yet where we can eliminate it..................(it's just not practical to take a computer into the crapper).....

I am a firm believer that MAAC's main priorities are Frequencies, Fields and Insurance and each of those three is dependant on the other. Next, maintaining a headquarters and experienced staff to keep the organization glued together is also an necessary cost. All other non-essentials should always be up for review.

The main reason I'm ok with the 75 bucks is that I realize how important the need is reestablish a very large nest egg in place as quick as we can...................hoping that nothing "bad" happens over the next few years.

I was glad to see expendable items like FAI travel fund and zone promo funds were cut in half, but feel the "political need" to not suspend all such funds showed a lack of courage. Those two funds are the largest non-essential budget items and IMO, should have suspended 100% in favour of dumping everything we can into contingency funds ASAP.

I don't know how many, if any items have been added or removed from the budget since these were posted in 2002, but it gives you an idea where the money goes.

http://mbz.portage.net/national/2002+BudgetProjections.html

I know one item added was MAAC membership in the Radio Advisory Board, which is the actual governing body of frequencies used in Canada with membership being one of President Bransfield's legacies. As I recal, it's around a $5000.00 anual cost.

75 bucks is not a big price to pay, but by the same token, the board has a responsibility to ensure that every last dime is being used for the benefit of ALL members and to do their best to ensure it is not wasted.

Marc Sharpe
Former Manitoba/Notherwestern Ont. Zone Director

< Message edited by Sharpy01 -- 4/6/2005 6:24:29 AM >

(in reply to kevin mcgrath)

Post #: 12

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/7/2005 7:14:00 PM

Donovan Dow

Posts: 76
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
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From:
can773

To:
Donovan Dow (Online)

Posted:
Tue 29 Mar, 2005 15:22

Subject:
stuff

Quote:
Morning All

I recommend that all FAI competition financing efforts be terminated.

I recommend that Zone Director grants to clubs be terminated.

I recommend that we get back to our hobby ground roots.

Forget the Olympics and FAI. Pay as you go.

Donovan does pay very big bucks to support his hobby and has no grimes about the pitting Maac due.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Currently, about $3 of your now $75 dues goes towards any FAI activities....$1 is for travel funding, the other $2 is for membership in the FAI...its no free ride for those of us who go. The money from MAAC doesnt even cover the entry fees, let alone any travel costs.

FAI accounts for maybe 5-6% of the total expenditures within MAAC, while office expenses are up near 60%.

Why people focus on one of the lowest expenditures within MAAC is beyond me, when we have an office "manager" with no formal education who refuses to take training, takes 4-5 months to forward letters to committees yet earns close to $60K/yr.

Anyways, MAAC was founded by competitors for competitors, your comments are off the mark and offensive...good thing a majority of members and zone directors dont share your views.

_________________
Chad Northeast

2005 Canadian F3A Team

(in reply to Sharpy01)

Post #: 13

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/7/2005 10:18:16 PM

voyager_663rd

Posts: 1192
Joined: 2/11/2003
From: Toronto, ON, CANADA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Donovan Dow

[in part] Why people focus on one of the lowest expenditures within MAAC is beyond me, when we have an office "manager" with no formal education who refuses to take training, takes 4-5 months to forward letters to committees yet earns close to $60K/yr.

_________________
Chad Northeast

2005 Canadian F3A Team

Aye carumba. That is one whopper of an expense.

_____________________________

Len-> More questions than answers some answers are here [url]http://www.freewebs.com/rc_tips_and_hints[/url] 18,000+ hi

(in reply to Donovan Dow)

Post #: 14

RE: MAAC membership reasonable? - 4/7/2005 11:34:19 PM