Castrol or Synthetic Oil (Full Version)

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olgoat -> Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/11/2005 5:23:22 PM)

I have a GMS 76 that runs great but has always put out alot of black oil. The engine has had at least 10 gal. of fuel thru it. I use 10% nitro with a castrol/synthetic blend. I thought of switching to a full synthetic oil for fear of the castrol not providing enough lubrication. One person at the field I go to told me that castrol lubricates better then synthetic but I always thought the opposite. I would like some more opinions.

Lonnie



Jarsu -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/12/2005 4:40:09 PM)

First, Castrol is a name for an oil manufacturer, so it is castor oil we're talking about. If your engine is not gummed up by the castor in the blended oil, there is no risk in moving to an all synthetic fuel, provided there is enough synthetic oil, I'd go with ~20%. Your friend is partially right, castor lubricates better in very high temperatures, where synthetic oil has evaporated or burned away (this might be the case if you have eg. a lean run) but in normal operating temperature, a good synthetic oil is at least as good a lubricant as castor oil, plus it doesn't gum your engine or leave a nasty mess on your plane.



RC-Captain -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/13/2005 3:02:50 AM)

EXcuse my ignorance, but is castor the same stuff my mom used to give when I was young to prevent me from getting sick ? [8|]



downunder -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/13/2005 4:45:40 AM)

:D Yep, it's the same stuff except the medicinal castor has been refined just a little more and some say it's got a bit of added sugar.

The Castrol company started about 100 years ago making castor oil and that's where their name came from (CASToROiL).

When a synthetic reaches a certain critical temperature it suddenly breaks down back into all the chemicals that were used to make it. None of these were lubricants and they just burn up. When castor reaches a critical temperature it breaks down too. But it breaks down into another lubricant. Then this lubricant reaches a critical temp and breaks down into yet another lubricant. This is part of the reason it's so much better at protecting the engine if you have a very lean run.

I've never yet seen castor come out black so I'd suspect there's a bit of metal to metal wear going on and the most likely place is the muffler, either where it attaches to the engine or a loose baffle inside.






RC-Captain -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/13/2005 5:01:03 AM)

Thanks Downunder for answering my question despite me disagreeing with you experiment [;)]

You seem to be very informed about RC engines.

Now for the hard queston, why cant we use a blend of petroleum or gas, with regular motor oil in these little RC engines ?


good luck.



Motorboy -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/13/2005 5:34:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL:
I've never yet seen castor come out black so I'd suspect there's a bit of metal to metal wear going on and the most likely place is the muffler, either where it attaches to the engine or a loose baffle inside.



If it is pure black without metalparticles, so the oil has burned to soot/carbon.

Jens Eirik



olgoat -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/13/2005 5:43:13 AM)

Thanks Downunder, That sure clears thing up. It runs great so I guess if it aint broke, I shouldn't try to fix it. [:D]

Lonnie



downunder -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/13/2005 5:05:48 PM)

Just to be sure, what I'd do (if possible) is to give it a run without the muffler and catch the oil coming out on a sheet of white paper. You'll have to open the needle valve maybe another turn or so because there'd obviously be no muffler pressure :) but it'll run fine on the bench or in the model. It'll be noisy though :D

RC-FIEND...it's quite possible to mix a small amount of petrol in the fuel and this used to be done on a regular basis for the old glow powered CL team race models, from what I've heard up to about 10% or so. But this was only done to increase the range on the limited tank size and was a tradeoff with the slightly less power. There's no point doing it for sport flying though because the savings in fuel costs would be very small but there's no reason why you can't experiment with it...just don't tell anyone cos you know what happens then. :D :D :D



RC-Captain -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/14/2005 1:08:29 AM)

LOL [:D] yea I know what happens, but I wonder how many people would stick by me doing the experiment.

Anyway, way back when I knew my DAD used regular gas to run the CL cox engines. But my main concern is how much hotter does petro burn compared to nitro. [8|] it might melt the diecast crankcase. [:D]

Maybe one day fellow myth buster.....[;)]



sajjad -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/14/2005 5:26:46 PM)

For the present ABC Engines 18% lubricating oil is sufficient. Older design engines need more.
The 18% consists of 20% of Castor Oil and 80% of Synthetic oil. Pure synthetic oil evaporates quickly at high temperatures so Castor Oil must be added to save the engine and prolong its life span. Never use pure synthetic all alone.

Sajjad

info from Fly RC June 2005



Jim Thomerson -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/14/2005 9:24:57 PM)

I seriously doubt your DAD ran Cox engines on regular gas. Maybe your memory is as tricky as mine is.[;)]

Jim



downunder -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/15/2005 4:41:55 AM)

:D I'm with Jim there, it's either a memory lapse or a misunderstanding from way back when. The thought just came to me that maybe your dad was saying he was going to "gas" up the tank. Now I know you Americans call petrol "gas"....



jeffk464 -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/18/2005 12:50:13 AM)

Downunder

You mentioned running petrol(gas) in a glow engine. I want to give this a try but dont have any extra glow style oil. Can I safely add say 5% gas to a gallon of off the shelf 10% nitro glow fuel. The fuel I have has 18-20% oil in the mix so I dont think adding 5% gas would lower my oil content that much. Anyways, what do you think, would it be hard on my engines?



RC-Captain -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/18/2005 1:22:16 AM)

Maybe a memory lapse , or maybe a gas engine .[8|] but the sense of smell is the the best way to remember things. So thats all I remember. [:D]



downunder -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/18/2005 8:42:15 AM)

jeffk
I'd think adding only 5% petrol should be ok. What I'd do though is figure out what size tank you're using and just add the 5% petrol to the tank. If you've got an 8 ounce tank then put in 0.4 ounces of petrol and top up with normal fuel. It's possible that over time the petrol might start attacking the silicone fuel tubing though.



Fred420 -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/22/2005 4:31:04 AM)

A: If the !QUOT!Black!QUOT! is coming from the muffler area or where the header joins the head it is probably loose and that is what is causing the black. The !QUOT!Black!QUOT! is the aluminum reacting with fuel. Rub your hands over unpolished aluminum and it will show !QUOT!Black!QUOT! on the skin. Same thing is happening, the fuel soaks the metal in the inside and seaps out of the cracks pulling the oxidation off of the metal.

B: Synthetic oil is NOT man made but rather a synthesized product. It is contaminant free. The base stock oil is passed thru Nitrogen Gas and it is !QUOT!scrubbed!QUOT! clean. Same oil, same crude stock, only 99.99% contaminant free. The flash point is actually higher than convential oil due to the process of eliminating the solid contaminates that are in all oils naturally.


Fred



AdrianM -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/22/2005 6:15:53 AM)

The flash point of synthetic oils used in our model fuels are significantly lower then the flash point of castor oil. This gives modelers lean run protection. Castor oil is also a better rust inhibitor. Yes it can leave varnish but this varnish is protection and can contribute to better compression sealing in ringed and ABC engines.

Running an 80/20 syn/castor mix gives you the power of synthetic oils with just enough castor to give you the protection. There is no good reason to ever run 100% syn oil.



Jarsu -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/24/2005 10:48:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fred420

B: Synthetic oil is NOT man made but rather a synthesized product. It is contaminant free. The base stock oil is passed thru Nitrogen Gas and it is !QUOT!scrubbed!QUOT! clean. Same oil, same crude stock, only 99.99% contaminant free. The flash point is actually higher than convential oil due to the process of eliminating the solid contaminates that are in all oils naturally.


Fred


Sorry, but that's not true. True synthetic oils are made for example from hydrocarbon liquid polymers (such as polyalphaolefin) or esthers, so in fact they are quite much man-made complex molecules. The synthetic oil you are referring in your post is semi-synthetic, and it is hydro-cracked from mineral oil.



AdrianM -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/25/2005 5:28:48 PM)

JTS - In the US many fuel manufacturers use Klotz oils. Some of the high end small fuel companies that primarily make R/C Car fuels have been using a special synthetic from Motul in France. They have been able to run oil percentages as low as 4% for careful team driver use with excellent results (40% Nitro, 4% Motul Syn). The over the counter blends have 8% oil. I have used the 4% for over 2 years in ultra high revving .12 motors in R/C cars with no discernible different in wear from when I used to use a conventional fuel (40% Nitro, 10% oil,80/20 Castor/Syn).

Are you aware of this oil and have you heard of it being used in R/C Aircraft?



Jarsu -> RE: Castrol or Synthetic Oil (4/25/2005 5:57:47 PM)

-Adrian

I've heard about people using the oil you mentioned (Motul Micro, I guess) with good results in aircraft and helicopters as well, but at least here in Finland that oil costs too much and it has to be orded from motorbike shops. If I remember correctly, user jaka in this forum has been using and praising Motul Micro oil.



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