Paying for Flight insrucrtion  
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Paying for Flight insrucrtion - 1/13/2002 8:14:53 PM   
Jackjet



Posts: 1023
Joined: 12/9/2001
From: Hesperia, CA, USA
Status: offline 		To All,
to All who responded-some very good points were made.As for myself-it someone wants to pay me for teaching them how to fly-I wll accept the money.I need to buy a new turbine for my F-4.


Jackjet

_____________________________

Jack Jet Williams
Hesperia,Ca

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 51

Paying for Flight insrucrtion - 1/14/2002 9:45:52 AM   
seaducer



Posts: 26
Joined: 1/14/2002
From: Barnegat, NJ,
Status: offline 		Hello all. New to this forum and to the hobby as well. My thought on paying for instruction is as follows;

What organization does the instructor go to for certification, and what are the test standards for such certification?? To my knowledge these standards are non-existent at this time. (USA)

You may be the hottest jock at the field, capable of making any plane do anything, but then again such people don't always make the best teachers. How do I know that the only service you are competent to provide is to recover my plane when I input the required commands to induce that awesome looking flat spin? Can you convey your knowledge and experience to me? Who says you can? How will you back that statement up?

As for other hobbies that teach for a price, say SCUBA, the instructors have to take an extensive course to teach, and at least at my local dive shops, if you can't certify in the normal class time, they work extra at no charge and retest for free. This, my friends, is called a guarantee. If I am to pay for something, I want one.

No doubt many a cherry has spent 100's on a plane only to destroy it 3 minutes into it's maiden flight, and would have gladly paid 30 bucks to an instructor if only to have saved their plane, but you're not only providing that service, but also to teach them how not to get into trouble, as well as how to recover when they do. Can you do that? And how can you prove it before I give you my money? The answer is an instructor rating on your license, and until you can get one, you shouldn't charge for instruction.

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 52

Paying for Flight insrucrtion - 1/14/2002 2:34:51 PM   
fliers1



Posts: 534
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Lockport, NY, USA
Status: offline 		1. It's nice to have a choice where to get instruction.

2. Who certified the Wright Brothers?

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 53

Teaching how to fly - 1/14/2002 7:03:00 PM   
jmf2001


 

Posts: 55
Joined: 1/1/2002
Status: offline 		It is unfortunate that so many people in this world don't see things the way they really are or who hear something and cant figure it out.
In regard to getting paid. I don't know what people think when you say "getting"piid. First of all it really isn't worth the money. Now in regarding to certifing instructors. When some one goes to the field and a member is going to teach them to fly how do you know if they are capable or not? You ask other guys at the field. It is true that many good fliers do not make good instructors. I have seen to many good fliers teaching new comers and see them wipe out a plane.
When I was teaching for pay ( now I only teach new club members free at our field on Sundays ) I started by helping the student pick out his first plane. After that was done I told them to call me when they had a problem. On the days we would fly the student would bring his plane down to the field with him and we would go over what he had do so far. They were helped all thru the construction of the model plus covering and installing the radio and engine. This was all part of instruction.
After the student had enough stick plane on my plane we would start to fly his plane. So you see it wasen't just flying that I was teaching. And remember this was all done for 100 bucks.
Till today I have the hobby shops in San Juan send me would be paying students. I tell them to join our club or send them to a club close to were they live.
'Thanks for listning

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 54

paying - 1/15/2002 4:26:44 AM   
slam



Posts: 67
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: BB , BC,
Status: offline 		To me, every other sport has paid instructors, so why not R/C?



Not so. You can be trained in full-size Soaring for no charge by the instructor and, yes quality varies greatly, so you ask around. Full-size flying risks your life as well as your dollars so if you're smart you check around carefully. Certification means very little in most sports. The attitude of the instructor is what counts. I personally wouldn't have minded paying my last and current instructor to learn to fly RC models, but there were others that were qualified that would have to pay me to train me .

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 55

Paying for Flight insrucrtion - 1/15/2002 4:55:20 AM   
seaducer



Posts: 26
Joined: 1/14/2002
From: Barnegat, NJ,
Status: offline 		Hello again,

The point I was trying to make about Instructor ratings was that before I hand over my hard earned dollars, I want to see proof you have the goods to teach me something. If you are going to teach pro-bono I am more ready to take the gamble my time won't be wasted without proof of a stranger's competency. The real danger here I am afraid of is increased regulations. Try this one on for size:

The AMA hears about people willing to pay and receive money for flight instruction, and instead of fighting it decides to offer an Instructor Certification Course to help "improve" the skills of new pilots faster and hopefully draw more interest in the hobby.

Problem: nobody wants to pay to take the course because you can already teach without paying for the privilege.

Solution: The AMA states only pilots checked out with AMA Certified Instructors can fly at chartered fields and events. After all, people have been seriously hurt and/or killed by model aircraft, and we're all about safety right?? This will force people or clubs to send at least one member to the course.

I can drag this on and on until the point where only AMA licensed pilots can purchase the materials needed to send an aircraft aloft, such as the restriction in the SCUBA industry, siting the same safety mantra, but do you really want to go there??

Now, I am not at all against people getting paid for a service, provided they can prove it AND back it up. The posts here about why they should be paid are excellent, especially those who provide their own planes and help in the building aspect. BTW the ONLY way I would pay for instruction is if you provided your own stuff. But now for the real test...

If you want to be paid for instruction, but denounced the idea about being certified to teach, why? Why wouldn't YOU pay for and take a class in order to charge me for the same thing? Please respond to this before the rest of it...

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 56

Paying for Flight insrucrtion - 1/15/2002 5:22:33 AM   
fliers1



Posts: 534
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Lockport, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Seducer,
The reason there is no certification for RC flight instructors is because there is no where to go to get certified.
The reason people will pay for instruction is because they cannot receive as much free instruction from their clubs as they would like. Most clubs usually only offer free instruction once or maybe twice a week. Some clubs don't offer any instruction at all. Like yourself, you said that there are no clubs in your area.

BTW, AMA doesn't want to hear anything about paid instruction much less decide to regulate it. The idea of paying someone to teach you is to get help at your convenience and not that of your for-favor instructor. Also, if you pay by the hour, you will receive an hour of sticktime, despite the qualifications or teaching skill of the instructor.
Keep in mind that in many cases, your free instructor may be the best flier in the world but lousy at teaching.

Some clubs make their instructors take a qualification test before they let him teach, but for the most part, you have no idea if the club instructor has a clue on how to teach or not. You take what you can get, even if the best that he can do is only keep you from crashing but not teach you a thing, you are much better off than trying to teach yourself how to fly. BTW, I would like to know who would teach me to fly real gliders for free. I always wanted to learn how to fly and if I could do it for free, I might give it a go.

I have yet to see anyone place an ad with their phone number to teach anyone and everyone at the beginner's convenience for free. Oh yeah, I did see one ad in the MAAC magazine. I placed that ad some 8 years ago, offering to let anyone fly my airplane and helicopter for free. Funny thing, in all that time, I never received even one phone call. Interesting.

I think if you went to the UK, pro instructors over there might be certified.

Take care,
Clarence C. Ragland
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 57

instruction - 1/15/2002 5:50:33 AM   
slam



Posts: 67
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: BB , BC,
Status: offline 		I would like to know who would teach me to fly real gliders for free. I always wanted to learn how to fly and if I could do it for free, I might give it a go.

fliers1 a little off topic, but OK.

I did not say the aerotow or glider rental was free but I myself was a soaring instructor for gratis until a couple of years ago.

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 58

Paying for Flight insrucrtion - 1/23/2002 2:49:01 AM   
Scorpionjack



Posts: 656
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Minot, ND, USA
Status: offline 		Personally! RC is a hobby or should I say an addiction. Pay for Instruction NO!

Why? Well being in this hobby from 1958 active in AMA from a Junior in CL Stunt to Combat, Rat Race etc. I finally arrived at the greatest Money pit in the Hobby RC Aircraft. As it stands now I've probably taught atleast 50+ people in RC basics to Intermidate Aerobatic's cost to them (Zero). probably another 50 just in basics(cost zero)

One of my Students was a Young Man from Brandon Manitoba, he came to my house every week for almost a year. Teaching him how to build and fly correctly (Cost None). He is the Number two (2) F3A Champion of Canada and #30 in the World. Remembering how it was when I had him on the sticks and saw his face with his first loop was more gratifying then any amount of money. Watching him fly his first aircraft that he built was just as satisfying. Hearing about him progress past the instructor was a thrill in itself.

I just arrived back to the states after being in Japan for the last 4 years flying every weekend there also. Met some of the greatest and most talented RC pilots from every walk of life. Over 100 Pilots were met in those 4 years and not a one charged anyone for instruction in this great Hobby.

If an individual is infact using a public field:
Or a field owned by the local club:
Or is an AMA/MAAC member:
Then that instructor charging should not be using that field at all.
You want to charge for flying RC do it on your own property, but don't forget to notify your insurance company to increase your liability insurance.


Have Fun
AMA6518

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 59

Paying for Flight insrucrtion - 1/23/2002 5:03:46 AM   
fliers1



Posts: 534
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Lockport, NY, USA
Status: offline 		One thing continues to get lost in this discussion: Why would anyone even consider paying for something that they could get for free? If there wasn't a market for paid instruction, there would be no discussion.

Those who teach for free tell of the few who they taught for free, but what they should do is make much easier for beginners to find all of these free instructors, then no one would feel the need to pay anyone for help. What most are not aware of is huge number of beginners who cannot find much, if any instruction.
Post you email address and telephone number online and provide the same excellent customer service that a paid instructor has to provide to stay in business. Of course, if you do get the word out that you are ready to teach the world for free, be prepared to be busy for awhile.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 60

Paying for Flight insrucrtion - 1/23/2002 6:04:27 AM   
JBH


 

Posts: 667
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: San Jose, CA
Status: offline 		Wow... I skimmed through the thread and don't understand all the interest. As long as I'm here, though... let me ask you this...

This thread has predominately been about a new guy wanting to learn the basics. How do you feel about a world class RC pilot charging to teach the average pilot how to really learn to fly?

Me, personally, I would love to have Quique Somenzini, Jason Shulman, or Chip Hyde come show me the finer points. They are available, did you know? They charge a little more than my current situation will allow for... but as soon as I'm roll'n in it again?... I'll be trying to get all three of them out for a weekend. :-)

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 61

teaching to fly - 1/23/2002 11:00:36 PM   
jmf2001


 

Posts: 55
Joined: 1/1/2002
Status: offline 		Once again you guys are missing the point. Sure most of the r/c clubs teach members how to fly. Most of the club instructors are good fliers and excelent instructors. No one is questiong that. The point I am tring to get is when someone is getting paid for something the person getting paid has an obligation to the student ( the one who is paying ) and usually takes more time on a one on one basis.
I have taught (and still do) many modelers how to build and fly model airplanes. But if the modeler wants me to be at his becon call then I have to be paid for my time. Once again remember in my case I give the student a properly built plane, a transmitter plus the buddy box, all my flight line equipment and my time. You don't think that I should be paid for that?
Once again no one is saying that club flight instructors are not getting the job done. They have done and continue to do an excellent job. But paid instrutors are also working. And I am sure that in the long run it is cheaper for the average modeler to get into the hobby via paid instructors. Im not talking $ 600.00 a week.
As for what field they use, in most cases ( like myself) the instructors make sure the field is well mantained.
Why the AMA dosen't cover paid insrtuctors, good question. Why don't you ask them?
There are a lot of other things we can talk about. So why don't we leave the instructor issue and go on to other things.

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 62

Pay for flight - 1/25/2002 6:51:17 AM   
stevta


 

Posts: 62
Joined: 12/25/2001
From: NC
Status: offline 		I think it was a good point that if you want to charge for training that's not a problem for most of us. There are conditions to our agreement in one fashion or another.
I agree with the gentlemen that mentioned a paid training taking advantage of the club and other club members who may want to be trainers or are already.
If you use the club to acquire students or use the club's facilities there should be an additional charge to that member. As you said, this is America and several had said you ought to be paid for your value.
My opinion is that by the time you pay for advertising and your own field you'd be farther in the hole then just giving the service away.
If you want others to treat your fairly you should be prepared to treat them likewise.

(in reply to Jackjet)
       Post #: 63

Re: Pay for flight - 1/25/2002 8:14:46 AM   
fliers1



Posts: 534
Joined: 11/30/2001
From: Lockport, NY, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by stevta
.
My opinion is that by the time you pay for advertising and your own field you'd be farther in the hole then just giving the service away.
. [/QUOTE]

See: http://www.frontiernet.net/~rcfs/Packet.htm

Dave Scott apparently found a way to pay his bills. He is making $1800 per week ($600 per person - per week) with his flight school. BTW, this doesn't include room and board for one week. Many would be surprised as to just how many beginners out there are ready to spend that much money to finally learn how to fly. Thing is, only those who advertise their training services to the public would know this.

Take care,
CCR
http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

(in reply to Jackjet)
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