RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along  
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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 6/22/2005 8:51:16 PM   
Mustang Fever


 

Posts: 1266
Joined: 11/30/2003
From: Cadillac, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Nick:

I couldn't, really, not in good conscience, after all the problems I had with this one. I'm not convinced it's a viable design. I have reached a conclusion about Herr, Lanier, and Fun Aero: they all have, what we politely used to say in the Army, their heads in rectal defilade, and I'll never buy anything from any of those three again. (Except maybe another 40 Shrike from Lanier. It's a good bird.)

I'd be happy to build you an Ed Westwood Heinkel 31, if you like, .15 powered. (See pic.) It's one of my better flying airplanes. I built the wing and the tail surfaces on a GP wing jig, and it all came out really straight.




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Bob Hunt

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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 6/22/2005 10:12:12 PM   
nick.wright


 

Posts: 683
Joined: 2/2/2002
From: Moultrie, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm kinda partial to the flying boats. I have a slow stick with brushless on floats, and a World Models Cessna Skylane on floats. Do you think the Heinkel would do well as EP?

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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 6/22/2005 11:10:59 PM   
Mustang Fever


 

Posts: 1266
Joined: 11/30/2003
From: Cadillac, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Ed originally designed it for a geared Cobalt 035, and he has one that flies real good. I was originally going to put a geared Astro 05 in mine, and then when I went to check it after pulling it out of another (unsuccessful) aircraft, it was dead. By that time, I had grown so disenchanted with the expense and reliability problems associated with electrics, I switched my Heinkel to glow. If you really want a -31, I'll build it for you and you can buy my geared Astro 05 system to put in it. (I'll have to send it to Astro to get it fixed, NBD, they are pretty good about that.)

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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 6/23/2005 3:14:52 AM   
lupy


 

Posts: 119
Joined: 12/26/2002
From: Renton Wa
Status: offline 		Wow, I don't feel so bad about my experiances with the aquastar, I built mine full house, with skips in the alerons so the floats could still rubber band on. It was my first plane after only flying a little about 15 yrs ago. I think it came in at 23oz, and initially threw so much water up it would stall the prop. Installed the Herr recomended rails, doubled their size, and finally got it to plane. With a little head wind, and a little chop, it would take off. I used the Norvel 61, but it was the AMA version, so that may have helped. After crashing in pretty hard, I replaced the silly plastic window with bent ply. Once in the air, it flew pretty well, but had to be going like a bat to get off the water. I had many take off runs that just skittered along untill it was too far away. In retrospect, I wonder if the motor angle wasn't too far down. I enjoyed it a lot, and it survived my learning, but It wasn't really a good first experiance with floatplanes. My next float plane was an old fun flyer I stuck a set of floats on, WoW!, what a differance, it would take off in 30ft, and just about prop hang even with the floats. At about 1/3 throttle, it will do a nice scale looking take off. I still have the star, so I may eventually re do everything with super light servos and such, and see if it works any better.

Thanks for an interesting read!
Ken

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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 6/23/2005 12:05:54 PM   
Mustang Fever


 

Posts: 1266
Joined: 11/30/2003
From: Cadillac, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Ken:

Your description kind of proves my point- the Star is more trouble than it's worth. Any model, particularly a small one, that requires endless debugging just has to have been designed wrong in the first place.

I'm getting to the point where, if I don't see a model fly well for someone else, I won't build it. I'm tired of supporting incompetent companies with my money.



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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 6/24/2005 6:01:46 AM   
old git


 

Posts: 706
Joined: 3/10/2004
From: BelvedereKent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi Bob,

I've been back to aeromodelling (theoretically) after about thirty years. I realised I didn't have a lot of life left if I wanted to get on with building any models. I joined RCU about 18 months ago, and mined eBay for kits and engines. All those things I couldn't afford while bringing up a family/buying a house etc. Among the bits and pieces I bought was a Herr Aqua Starr kit. When you started your series of posts I was really interested, it was a very informative series that I saved in word with the idea of putting your instructions with the kit that I hope to build sometime soon. Pity it had a sad ending but maybe there is hope?

Among my motor collection I have a G-Mark .12 flat twin, would this work combined with the other mod's you describe?

Been following the Seaplanes area for a while, I didn't realise that there was so much difficulty involved with R.O.W. Anyone want to buy three sets of EDO floats. They looked a good idea at the time!

Now to the advice from a sufficiently senior person to think he can offer advice. When you retire DO NOT TAKE ON ANYTHING NEW. Forget the house maintenance/decoration, forget the local politics (small p) and GO STRAIGHT TO MODELLING. I'm eight years retired and STILL no models built.


You may hate getting old but think of the alternative!

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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 6/24/2005 12:07:53 PM   
Mustang Fever


 

Posts: 1266
Joined: 11/30/2003
From: Cadillac, MI, USA
Status: offline 		A G mark 12? Don't have a clue.

Floats seem to work well as long as the following rules are obeyed:

CG aft of the steps.
Floats big enough for airplane (that info is somewhere in this area)
Slight positive incidence, wing in relation to top of floats.
Airplane is perhaps 25% or more overpowered. (Essential to overcoming drag on the water)

I'm really impressed with my Heinkel 31. It's close to the water so it's hard to flip, and with the Magnum 15 it goes like crazy.

Thanks for your kind remarks, and I'm glad I followed your advice without knowing it. Retired end of 2000, built first RC model in 2001.

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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 6/24/2005 4:15:04 PM   
tpstorey



Posts: 257
Joined: 11/18/2002
From: Saint Louis, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Small planes need to be kept light to perform the way they were intended. My Auqaustar weighs 18.8 ounces and gets off the water every time with a Norvel .061 and 25% fuel. I did have to add chines. Check this thread for more info: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_480020/tm.htm

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Tim Storey

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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 6/24/2005 4:42:50 PM   
old git


 

Posts: 706
Joined: 3/10/2004
From: BelvedereKent, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Thanks anyway Bob, lots of others in the waiting list. Garage & workshop especially is a hold up. While I have been reading and talking about models DICKNADINE has built about five in the last year. Keep an eye open for his models you won't find an uninteresting one in his hangar.

By the way the edo floats were in fact Gee Bee plastic floats. They seemed good until I read about how unsuitable they were for model flying. It seems a little ironic that the three little pods under a rubber job worked so well but nice looking floats and hulls don't work. Usually I have a good feeling about how a model will fly just by looking at it (vintage) I didn't expect R.O.W. to present so many problems. There was a series in Radio Control Models & Electronics earlier in the year. The plans were published before the model flew. It went through a series of evolutionary changes similar to those of your Aqua Starr. Maybe some kits and plans are designed and published without having been flown first.








John L.

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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 6/24/2005 9:17:10 PM   
Mustang Fever


 

Posts: 1266
Joined: 11/30/2003
From: Cadillac, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Amen, John

Either not tested at all, or not enough to expose the bugs in the design.

I think there are a lot of companies out there that have problems in this area. Part of being an RC modeler is having enough patience to learn what works and what doesn't. I think I have a pretty good idea, now, but it has been a hard road to travel.

Sig, whom I normally respect, has made some classic boners on some of their kits. The "Wonder" comes to mind. The location of the wing dowel rod reinforcing blocks on the plans is wrong, and if you do it the way they say the dowels end up outside the blocks and the wing comes off. I know. I called them after mine did, and the b******s wouldn't even discuss it.

I can't go to RC trade shows, because I'd probably get arrested while I was in the process of reaming out some corporate model airplane idiot over the dumb mistakes that they don't seem able to correct.

I'll tell you one thing- if you build a Jim Ryan design, it FLIES. I have his electric P-38 Lightning I built from plans, and it's one of two airplanes I have that are without vice. (The other is the Ed Westwood Heinkel 31). Jim does whatever is necessary to the design to make it fly nice, and yet he's able to maintain enough of a scale outline that it looks OK.

Regards, and

KEEP EM FLYING


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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 7/2/2005 5:21:02 PM   
CoosBayLumber


 

Posts: 3048
Joined: 1/20/2002
From: San Bernardino Calif
Status: offline 		Bob;


Back a couple years ago. Took the Heer Agua plans and parts an enlarged them about 150%. No matter the size, same problems equate scale-wise too. The A/C just refused to R-O-W. We originally installed a Bib Mig .15 for power. That got swapped out for a .25 and then is sort of powered itself off the water. No matter which version, they flew well, but just would not take off well. We were flying it from a rock quarry in early spring, and had to quit when it dried up in late spring of 2001, as other times it was too windy or dry.

We revised the overall hull design four times. Settled on one, and then just told everyone it took a .25 to take off, but one a .15 to fly. If they would hand launch it, go for the smaller power. The plans and parts are not one to which we are proud of, but is selling on occasion at Bob Holman as the Sea Demon. If there is someone willing to take on design revisions, contact Bob.

One off thing happened while test flying with the .15 when the rudder servo came loose. It wheeled over and dove nearly straight in. This bent the fuselage nose to the left. Not to waste a day (or water) the fellows stripped the covering, glued in substitute wood, lumps and all recovered it with a portable heat gun, and had it flying again in 45 minutes. The nose aimed to the left about 3 degrees, but it flew straight. It still had problems in getting it of the water. The next version was a .25 and better, but not best.



Wm.


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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 7/2/2005 6:52:48 PM   
Mustang Fever


 

Posts: 1266
Joined: 11/30/2003
From: Cadillac, MI, USA
Status: offline 		All this has brought me to this conclusion:

I won't ever build another flying boat unless I personally see an example that has good water handling and ROW characteristics (in addition to flying well) I've got the plans for one of those big, foam PBMs, but I'm not going to ever build one until I see one in person.

There's just so much Bull S*** in the RC world, I don't know who to trust anymore.



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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 7/23/2006 2:42:12 PM   
Tsutomu Mabuchi



Posts: 663
Joined: 7/10/2004
From: Yokohama, JAPAN
Status: offline 		Although it will be difficult to success, I started building Aqua Star after gathering
many suggestions from here. Powered by Norvel Big Mig 061RC.
I will use Futaba R146ip(18g), 3 of micro(9g) servo, 2 of mini(18g) servo.
The battery will be NiMH 1100mAH due to the CG requirement( seems tail
heavy). I'm not sure, but I hope it will make ROW and fly.

The airplane has just been covered by silk with dope, final dope finish left.
1. added big chine on the front.
2. changed the engine thrust to 3 deg.up instead of original 3 deg. down.
3. moved the rod exits to the upper side.
4. installed a throttle servo inside the pod(micro servo)
5. Wing installation is screw/ blind nut and tip floats by servo mounting tape.
I don't like rubber band.
6. Added ailerons and 2 micro servos in the wing.
7. Windshield is balsa block.
8. will glue the front hatch by silicon after laying the battery in the front. I will
deside the battery size after the complete building.

Tsutomu Mabuchi

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RE: Herr Aqua Star Build Along - 7/23/2006 8:57:39 PM   
Mustang Fever


 

Posts: 1266
Joined: 11/30/2003
From: Cadillac, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Tsutomu:

I think you are doing a lot of right things. I suggest 20-30% nitro if using the .061. I found that it was not powerful enough with only 15%.

Good Luck!

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