Synthetic Oils (Full Version)

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voodoodb -> Synthetic Oils (5/16/2005 9:35:03 PM)

Could someone tell me the names of some of the Synthetic oils that can be used to make 100% synthetic fuels?

Thanks
Voodoo



platero -> RE: Synthetic Oils (5/17/2005 4:53:27 AM)

the most popular is Klotz, others are Micromotul and World wide racing fuels



voodoodb -> RE: Synthetic Oils (5/20/2005 11:32:12 PM)

Does anyone know if the Amsoil or Shell have a synthetic oil that will work in methanol as an oil?

Voodoo



mentorman -> RE: Synthetic Oils (5/21/2005 1:34:54 AM)

Morgan fuels sells their Cool Power oil in bottles, some hobby shops have it and I just saw some at a go cart shop due to them using it in alcohol/methanol race fuel



terratorn -> RE: Synthetic Oils (5/25/2005 1:26:43 AM)

Along this same subject line, does anyone know if automotive oils (Syntec, Mobile One, Or such) could be used, as a fuel lubricant, if a suspension agent were added ? If so what might that agent be ? Thanx ahead of time, Terratornfont="Arial"]



boater -> RE: Synthetic Oils (5/25/2005 2:23:24 AM)

Automotive oils:: I believe Castrol R is castor (bean) oil and will blend with methanol, though not a synthetic oil but maybe of some use to those living far out. Another source for methanol oils may be Jet oils, I believe Mobil Jet II will work, but a test would surely be in order before buying bulk.



downunder -> RE: Synthetic Oils (5/25/2005 4:22:40 PM)

Castrol M is pure castor but Castrol R is a blend of castor and (I think) a mineral oil. Synthetic car oils like Mobil 1 are only part synthetic so they won't mix with methanol. They probably would though if there was an additive that both methanol and mineral oils were soluble in. Ether would be perfect because that's one of its uses in model diesel fuel but I wouldn't even like to guess what the minimum % of ether would need to be.

Mobil Jet Oil II is very good but you need to be careful because it comes in two versions, generations 2 and 3, but generation 3 won't mix with methanol. Another jet oil that's almost as good is BP2380, it's biggest advantage is that it doesn't have the very heavy dark brown dye that's in the Mobil jet oil.



voodoodb -> RE: Synthetic Oils (5/25/2005 11:32:26 PM)

Just for everyones info, Shell Advance VSX will not blend with Methanol.

Voodoo



iskandar taib -> RE: Synthetic Oils (6/25/2005 7:34:47 AM)

It's not whether an oil is "synthetic" or not that allows it to mix with methanol. Its whether the "oil" happens to be soluble in methanol or not. Most synthetic oils are not. What we use in glow fuel are known as Polyalkylene Glycols (PAGs), mainly made by Union Carbide (now part of Dow Chemicals). This family of chemicals is actually more related to antifreeze than to other oils. They are soluble in methanol because they have -OH groups in the molecule. Same thing is true of Castor Oil - it is the only vegetable oil (other than, I think, soybean oil) that has OH groups in the fatty acid chains.

Incidentally, years ago (in the 1970s) Castrol used to make something called "MSSR" which was a synthetic gear oil (probably PAG based) that was usable in glow fuel.



downunder -> RE: Synthetic Oils (6/25/2005 3:08:21 PM)

Isky...the MSSR oil is still available in New Zealand and Europe as far as I can tell. Castrol seems to have a strange distribution system because some oils are readily available in some countries but not others. We don't have MSSR in Oz yet we could almost swim to NZ. Castrol M is widely available here in Oz but almost unknown in America.



jpjedi -> RE: Synthetic Oils (2/25/2008 5:19:05 AM)

Will the motul 800 factory line work ? (100% synthetic 2t oil)


Here in India I cannot get synthetic oils at all and do not want to use castor oil. I found this motul 800 on ebay.

If anybody knows somebody who wants to send me MSSR or micromotul...I would be very interested!



mgoodwin -> RE: Synthetic Oils (2/29/2008 6:42:50 PM)

Hello All FHS supply in South Carolina has synthetic 62RM and Castor/Syn mixes That will work with methanol. Fuchs Silkolene has a Synthetic Super2SX that will mix also a Caster/Syn mix. Horizon Hobby has Morgan Oils Synthetics and mixes .I believe Blendzalls Synzall Synthetic Racing oil will mix. Also VP Racing fuels RS-7 is also suppossed to have been mixed with methanol. I would contact the manufacturers first. Maxima has a 927 Castor/Syn mix that will work. Amsoil and Redline will not.
Michael Goodwin



balsaeater -> RE: Synthetic Oils (3/1/2008 9:29:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: downunder

Isky...the MSSR oil is still available in New Zealand and Europe as far as I can tell. Castrol seems to have a strange distribution system because some oils are readily available in some countries but not others. We don't have MSSR in Oz yet we could almost swim to NZ. Castrol M is widely available here in Oz but almost unknown in America.



Thanks for the good info

For Europe does anybody know all the "synthetic" oils and makes types etc that are available that mix with methanol
My bigger motors 90 15cc plus are generally running zero 0% or3% to 5% nitro with 10% "synthetic" oils and no castor with the smaller motors less than 90 15cc are similar mostly 5% nitro with 15% "synthetic"

The EDL "synthetic" is costing me E65.00 per gallon UK 1.2gallon USA (~$95 ~£50)
If I could reduce the price of the "synthetic" this would help lot
If the "synthetic" was even more superior to EDL and I could drop % oil to lower like 8% or even 6% that would help even more

So far all other sources which appear cheaper but add in the CRAZY HIGH shipping costs look to cost even more than the present solution but open to new information

Balsaeater









jpjedi -> RE: Synthetic Oils (3/1/2008 12:17:56 PM)

yupz.

Just ordered morgan 100% synth and 10 liter of Motul micro synth oil which is designed for aeromodellers.

A friend of my sends me 5 liter Castrol MVVS which also mixes with methanol but it seems not in production anymore...



XJet -> RE: Synthetic Oils (3/1/2008 8:14:53 PM)

If you're going to use the Morgan synth, *don't* go below 17% by volume. It's not in the same league as the more advanced synthetics like the Motul Micro.



jpjedi -> RE: Synthetic Oils (3/2/2008 2:54:45 AM)

Hi,

That is a good tip! I was not aware that Morgan had that limitation. I ordered some just to start testing with different oils and ith this kind of information my picture gets more complete every day! Reading dutch and international forums I can tell you that in general Micro motul seems to be the best in the market. Every discussions turns out in a verdict in favour of micro motul with Castrol mvvs on the second place.

Synthetic oil have no good temperature behavious so the best way is to just mix a 3% Castor oil in your fuel so the lubricaiton at high temps is assured as well. Castor oil performs at its best at high temperatures becuase it keeps sticky Where the viscosity of synthetic oil drops dramatically and does not lubricate anymore.



downunder -> RE: Synthetic Oils (3/2/2008 3:55:10 AM)

The viscosity of synthetics isn't the real problem but more their temperature limitations. For one thing they revert to the chemicals used to make them once they get hot enough and it's called unzippering. Then there's the flash point which can easily be reached on internal surfaces like the liner in a very lean run. This isn't all that much of a problem because flash point just means that the oil is hot enough to boil at the surface and the vapours can ignite and flash burn off leaving most of the oil still as a liquid. For synthetics this is somewhere around 450F and castor isn't much better, maybe 460 or so. But then there's the fire point. This when it's hot enough to produce vapours so fast the liquid oil catches fire and continues to burn until there's none left. This won't take long seeing how thin the oil film is on the liner. The catch is that synthetics have a fire point maybe only 10F above the flash point so call it 460F. Castor though has a fire point of around 850F so basically no engine could ever reach a temperature high enough for it to ignite. All the way up to its fire point though, castor keeps changing into other lubricants.



Austis -> RE: Synthetic Oils (3/2/2008 9:08:12 AM)

I am running pure synth oil.(15nitro/15oil.) oil is called aerosave.
http://www.aerosynth.de/pages/pdfs/ASaveEngl.pdf
its a german oil from the produser fuchs...
it is sayed to be one of the best oils by them who have tried several types.


and the flashpoint issue. I think no of the good synth oils have a flashpoint that low that it will ignite or burn in an aero engine. unless you are running it way to lean.
adjust the engine propperly(by for example follow the manual that came with your engine), and all good synt oils will not burn.

but if you want an "idiot prof" fuel, you may want some casor in it.



mr502go -> RE: Synthetic Oils (5/10/2008 10:34:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: iskandar taib

It's not whether an oil is "synthetic" or not that allows it to mix with methanol. Its whether the "oil" happens to be soluble in methanol or not. Most synthetic oils are not. What we use in glow fuel are known as Polyalkylene Glycols (PAGs), mainly made by Union Carbide (now part of Dow Chemicals). This family of chemicals is actually more related to antifreeze than to other oils. They are soluble in methanol because they have -OH groups in the molecule. Same thing is true of Castor Oil - it is the only vegetable oil (other than, I think, soybean oil) that has OH groups in the fatty acid chains.

Incidentally, years ago (in the 1970s) Castrol used to make something called "MSSR" which was a synthetic gear oil (probably PAG based) that was usable in glow fuel.


With this in mind, would automotive A/C compressor "PAG" oil work. It's typically used in R-134 systems. I never considered that stuff. May work well as an after run oil for YS engines. I know the old R-12 used Mineral oil, and the two oils aren't compatible. Thanks for the background, very informative!!



Red B. -> RE: Synthetic Oils (5/10/2008 2:03:57 PM)

In my part of the world we have been using Graupner Aerosynth and Aerosave for a long tim. Here is a link to the manufacturer:

Fuchs

No need for any additives and for sport flying a mixture of 15% Aerosave, 10% nitro and75% methanol is just about perfect.



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