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Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/22/2005 9:38 PM   
mr sopwith


 

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From: Woodland Hills, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hello,
I need a straight full threaded muffler manifold for my .82 saito
what's the part number?? I looked at horizon hobby but no specifications.
I'm planning to bring the whole muffler inside the cowl of a camel without cut out and add a 3/8 silicone tube to go out.
thanks
BTW, any new information on williams bros reproduction? next month? .....I need a pair of vickers.

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< Message edited by mr sopwith -- 5/22/2005 9:55 PM >

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/23/2005 2:06 AM   
abufletcher



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From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		First of all your Camel looks outstanding! Please post more photos!!!

As for the flex pipe I just ordered one of these for my Saito 82. The shops are all a bit confused because the 82 is new and not listed in the catalogues yet. But it uses the same pipe as the 80. Here's the info I found on the following page:

http://saito-engines.info/muffler.html

"A 12mm flexible exhaust pipe with a pressure tap is Saito part number 182TD-1112 (Horizon Hobbies part SAI182TD1112)"

BTW, I've also contacted Keleo Creations about the possibility of them making up a short 90 degree threaded connecting pipe to replace the straight connecting pipe that comes with the engine. This would allow me to mount the stock muffler within the cowl pointing down parallel to the cylinder. I haven't heard back from them yet though. Anyone know anyone else who might be able to do this?



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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/23/2005 3:47 AM   
khodges


 

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Status: offline 		That is a stunning Sopwith Camel. Is it a Proctor kit? According to the manual with my FA-72, the "muffler manifold, standard" for all the medium Saito singles is #8075B. The medium displacement saitos all have the same diameter exhaust port threads, and include the- .65, .72, .80, .82, and .91

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/23/2005 7:44 AM   
abufletcher



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From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		OOOOOOOWWWW! Looky what I found! The are listed a being used on OS and OS-compatible engines.

http://www.justengines.unseen.org/FS_mans.htm

Is there anyone in the US doing something like these??? The going price (including shipping) on one of these seems to be around $40 (It's 18.95 GBP so it varies according to exchange rate and shipping location). That's about the same cost as the Saito flex pipe.



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< Message edited by abufletcher -- 5/23/2005 8:17 AM >

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/23/2005 3:04 PM   
Wayne22



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Status: offline 		Check out Mac's products...they have several innovative products which might be the answer you are looking for...
http://www.macspro.com/images/90_deg_adap.jpg

< Message edited by nony -- 5/23/2005 3:06 PM >

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/23/2005 3:25 PM   
abufletcher



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From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		Hmmm...also a very interesting product for future project. I wonder if they offer a version with a pressure tap? I've gone ahead and order the J'EN 90 degree manifold shown above for my 56 but I may be looking for a flex pipe solution for projects down the road.

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/24/2005 4:38 AM   
mr sopwith


 

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Status: offline 		Hey gang,
This Camel is a scratch built, I bought the Frank Meier designed plans from ebay.
The 6 7/8" plastic cowl is from Proctor. I cut the cowl and opened up to 7 1/8" with fibreglass resin to make more room for engine. Covered up with FliteMetal. Meier's design is 7" dia.

About the muffler, I'd like to put it right on the engine, connecting the blue 3/8" Aerotreand exhaust silicone tube with cable tie up and go through the firewall. Behide the firewall, connecting to homemade "Y" with copper tubes to fit two flex tubes to make it looks reality, Smokes will come out each side!! Please, see the pictures
If the silicone tube is no good, I'll try to make one with old gas dryer flex tube.

Or how about turn the muffler upside down to pointing down and forget about side pipes??? see the next post



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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/24/2005 4:53 AM   
mr sopwith


 

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Status: offline 		Or pointing down and forget the side pipes???? mmmmmmmmmm
see the muffler header which came together with the new engine....too long!!!!


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< Message edited by mr sopwith -- 5/24/2005 4:57 AM >

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/24/2005 4:54 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Very interesting! I thought about trying to work out some scale exhaust system for my Nieuport as well (with the exhaust exiting through tubes on the sides). But I gave that up as too much work for this model. Also it would interfere with the radio installation. I like the idea of having a removable panel on the bottom to get at servos. You've really managed to hide your engine well. Even the cut-outs in the cowl for the rocker heads is barely noticeable.

What's the wingspan on this model? I'm guessing it's around 55-60".

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/24/2005 4:57 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		Personally I'd prefer the muffler not to be showing but that's always a compromise. The muffler on my EIII was out there for all to see (between the UC legs). But if you COULD work out the system with the blue tube that would be great.

BTW, is that the Rx over the engine? I like the idea of the metal bracket. Might as well use metal since you've got to have as much weight as possible up front anyway.


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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/24/2005 5:10 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		BTW2, I see one potential problem with the muffler point upwards as in your "within the cowl" photo. Actually, maybe two problems. Potential problem #1 is the the pressure tap on the muffler directly faces the cylinder and thus the vent line would very likely be VERY close to the hot cylinder and may even end up touching it in flight -- and melting through. Which would of course lead to a deadstick. On advantage of the 90 degree connectors I'd posted above (and that I've just ordered) is that the pressure tape is then turned back towards the firewall solving this problem.

Potential problem #2 I'm not sure about at all. I remember reading somewhere (I think) that the muffler should point down so as to allow fuel to drain out. Mounting it upside down could lead to flooding and/or hydrolock. Can anyone confirm or refute this idea?

On my Nieuport I am facing very similar issues. I initially had planned to mount the engine inverted and use the beautiful single cylinder of the Saito 56 Golden Knight as a sort of substitute for a proper dummy engine. But once I realized that it would fit nicely under the cowl I figured maybe I should mount it upright and later add a dummy. Mounted upright and using the 90 degree angle connector the muffler will sit roughly parallel with the cylinder pointing downward. Some of the exhaust might be directed toward the cowl but this shouldn't be much of a problem since it's made of durable aluminum (it's a cooking pot originally). I suppose heat transference would still be something to think about.

Alternately, if I would to mount the engine inverted the muffler (using the stock pipe) would exit cleanly out the bottom but with the open cowl of the Nieuport the muffler hanging off the side of the cylinder would be a bit unsightly.

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/24/2005 5:28 AM   
mr sopwith


 

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From: Woodland Hills, CA, USA
Status: offline 		More Pictures of my Camel
Wingspan on the plan is 56 1/2", mine is 57"
I made the dummy engine myself....ummm not bad...also, I painted the british insignias myself as well
anyway, thanks for all the informations on the muffler manifold.
Cheers

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< Message edited by mr sopwith -- 5/26/2005 12:12 AM >

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/24/2005 5:59 AM   
abufletcher



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From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		That looks really good and you've done a great job on the pilot painting too! You might want to think about rubbing the flitemetal down with 000 steel wool to make it look a bit less polished.

Let us know how the maiden flight goes! Hopefully you'll find a couple of guns for your crate soon!


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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/25/2005 1:45 AM   
khodges


 

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Status: offline 		As good a modeler as you obviously are, why not scratch build the Vickers guns? There should be info somewhere that has good pix and dimensions. I scratchbuilt a couple of bazookas for my L-4, using Plastruct tubing and balsa; I found great scale info at the Library in a book called "Weaponry of WWII". Of course they're little more than a hollow pipe anyway, but why sully as beautiful a bird as yours with "store bought" machine guns .

I would agree with the above post regarding pointing the exhaust down to permit drainage; no experience of my own, but it's a reasonable concern, regarding hyraulic lock. The flex-pipe made for Saitos, that is designed for their twins, would be perfect for what you're looking to do, and it's surprising how quiet they are. I thought they would be loud, but i guess the "corrugations" that allow the pipes to be bent to fit also act as baffles. A friend used one on his 1.00 Saito in the H-9 P-40 and it's as quiet as any muffled engine, just the tone sounds more like a straight pipe and would be great on the Camel

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/25/2005 1:53 AM   
khodges


 

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Status: offline 		One other thing; one of our club members has a bunch of the BUSA 1/4 scale WWI stuff, and used to have them all on glow power. He said that regardless of what you fuelproofed with, the exhaust blowing down on the "winglet" between the wheels would eventually cause the paint to peel. He tried running the exhaust back under the fuse and letting the slipstream disperse it, with better results, but still got tired of wiping oil off every time, so he converted them all to G-23 and G-26's. Personally, the sound of a Saito is worth every drop of oil you have to wipe.

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/25/2005 2:57 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		I've come to love the sound of a 4-stroke putting along at 2200rpm! It has such a wonderful throaty sound. I've never heard a gas engine so can't really comment. From what I've heard gas engines are useful for those radial cowl, short nose models in the larger sizes (for example a 1/4 scale DVIII) but are generally more complicated. I would imagine it's also harder to mount a full dummy engine on a gas engine.



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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/26/2005 3:51 AM   
mr sopwith


 

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Status: offline 		This Camel is my very first R/C plane, I started into R/C hobby just 6 months ago. I haven't flew one yet and I will not be ready to fly this one, I need more lessons first with a cheap rtf plane.

Now, about the pressure tap, that's not a big problem, I can move the muffler away from the engine a little and put some heat-resistant stuff around the tube.
About the muffler upward, I think that's a big problem!! the question is ......How much oil will come out durling one flight?
one table spoon? 5 tablespoons? 10?
The fuel tank in the camel is 16oz.

I was thinking to drill the hole, tap it and install a 1/8 x 1/2 SHCS as "plug" to drain out or install a 1/8 tube? see the picture.
With 1/8 screw-in tube, I'm sure it will lose some pressure tap but how much? what about the sound and performance??


BTW that thing with metal bracket on top of the engine is a battery pack, not RX.

Cheers.

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RE: Saito .82 muffler manifold - 5/26/2005 5:15 AM   
abufletcher



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Status: offline 		I admire your desire to get into scale (and WWI scale at that) as soon as possible. I did almost the same thing: bought a trainer and about a month later started working on a scale model that I hoped to have the skills to fly by the time I finished with it. Well, it's still hanging on the ceiling (after a maiden flight by the club expert) and I still don't have the skills. Well, maybe for this simple Eindecker.

But I doubt I have the piloting skills for the Nieuport 11 I'm currently building. But I hope to have them soon. I'm doing everything possible to prepare. I've converted all my planes to taildraggers (in one case just a metal skid, no tail wheel), I practice flying biplanes in RealFlight, work on scale maneuvers and three-point landings (though that may not be the best option), and have order a easy building "practice plane" (Flair Legionaire).

A word of warning: The original camel was a notoriously challenging aircraft to fly. That's often the double-edged sword of fighters. Nimble in combat often meant hard to handle. I've read that more Camel pilots were lost to take-off and landing accidents than in combat. Maybe the model is more stable. But prepare for the worst. Still, it's a classic plane to model and you've done an excellent job on this. Just take your time and get the skills you feel you need before taking it up. Do you have the RealFlight simulator. If not, maybe you can find a fellow club member who'll let you try it out. That should give you at least an idea of the potential challenges. The Camel in RealFlight has a very mean tip stall and is hard to get out of a spin. I consider it the most difficult model in RealFlight to fly. Landings (as with most WWI types) will be a challenge requiring careful simultaneous inputs to throttle, rudder, elevator, and maybe also aileron -- and a bit of luck.

I'm in the same boat as you -- just maybe a bit further along in the stream. I've only been into RC for about two years. Keep at it.

Regarding how much fuel might drain into the muffler, I don't really know an answer. It isn't like the fuel will just drain straight out of your tank through the muffler. During flight I wouldn't imagine that fuel can "flow" into the muffler. It's more like the exhaust will contain a lot of oil and perhaps unburnt fuel and this will accumulate. All I know is that I've never seen a model with the muffler mounted pointing up and there's got to be a reason for that.

If I were you I'd be very tempted to just turn the muffler around and have it point down out the back of the cowl.

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