New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (Full Version)

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Strykaas -> New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 12:17:29 PM)

Hi !

I've just found this on MVVS web site :

I can't see the point of adding such complexity... Well, it's cool to have a cooler ([:D]) under the fuselage, but what's the point ???

Nice piece of engineering, though.




Diablo-RCU -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 1:09:14 PM)

Liquid cooled engines can be made to delivery higher power because it's easier to control temperature. All of the 2-stroke motocross engines and 500cc GP engines are liquid cooled for that reason. The only disadvantage is weight and complexity, which can be a problem for model planes.



dirtybird -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 4:22:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Diablo-RCU

Liquid cooled engines can be made to delivery higher power because it's easier to control temperature. All of the 2-stroke motocross engines and 500cc GP engines are liquid cooled for that reason. The only disadvantage is weight and complexity, which can be a problem for model planes.


I think that disadvantage will far outweigh the advantage. Most of us are not racing our airplanes.



Strykaas -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 6:11:52 PM)

Using such an engine in a warbird who actually has big coolers / radiators may be nice. We could install this cooler at scale locations [8|].



Rupurt -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 6:25:35 PM)

I would have to agree with dirtybird, besides any small power advantage would be lost with the extra weight and having to run that little pump all the time, it looks like some one at mvvs have fun designing it though and they definitly deserve some credit for trying new things.



Strykaas -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 6:47:06 PM)

I'm not sure that setup is really WAY heavier than a std setup, as there is NO cooling fin on the head of the engine, and these fins are by far thicker than a cooler's fins, that can actually be very light. I would like to know the weight of the cooler.



BRYAN01601 -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 7:02:20 PM)

I am sure the weight of the fins is far less than the water. Also the cylinder wall's would need to be thinker to acomodate the cooling ports the water runs through



Rupurt -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 9:16:23 PM)

Strykaas did you get the displacement of this engine?



JBrannon -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 9:24:16 PM)

This most likely is a Marine engine someone decided to put in a plane.



Willdo -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 9:43:53 PM)

BRYAN
The walls do not need to be thicker, - all that is necessary is a light water/coolant jacket, which in this case (and in most cases), is an integral part of the casting.

PURISTS
The fact is, MVVS have taken the risk and have gone and done it anyway, and anyone who can design and produce castings like that can't be too silly. Radiators may be a little pricey though but that won't stop a lot of people buying them.

It's all probably unnecessary, ( but interesting ), as are all the other hi tech gadgets we have.

I'm sure our wives, girlfriends etc, can't see any sense in us having model aircraft at all! [8|]




Geistware -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 10:24:58 PM)

The amount of water in the system may be small.
Also the coolent could be something other than water.



fiery -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 10:52:56 PM)

The amount of coolant in the cooling system is 200 millilitres (0.2 litre). Or, 6 1/2 fluid oz's for those in North America.

This is a version of the successful 58cc IRS R/C aircraft powerplant recently developed by MVVS, not a marine powerplant.

It has been out for some time. I expect it will do well, especially with the warbird/scale fraternity. I believe the weight is not significantly greater than the air cooled version. The MVVS brochure linked as a pdf file on Pe Reiver's site says the weight of the engine including the water pump is 1830 grams - only 10 grams more than the standard air cooled 58 IRS at 1820 grams!

The heat exchanger weighs a further 120 grams. Ignition adds a further 165 grams in both cases. It may also be easier to cowl in a scale like manner in many installations - no need to worry about cooling ducts, baffles etc.

Weight is not often a huge issue with warbirds. G62's and other commercial conversions (the type of engine this may be intended to replace) are often not exactly at the low-end end of the weight spectrum.

I fully expect that water cooling will become more common on larger spark engines. I also expect that noise reduction (due to the silencing effect of the water jacket) will also be an operational side benefit.

fiery



Rupurt -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/29/2005 10:59:53 PM)

Ethylene glycol (C2H6O2) is a fairly standard coolant and I think it is heavier than water.



Heli32 -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/31/2005 3:09:15 AM)

EEKss!! No thanks!! Would make a better boat engine.



cu. in. -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/31/2005 4:00:35 AM)

When I first saw it, I thought it WAS a boat motor. Unnecessary cost and complexity IMHO.

Bruce



DT56 -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/31/2005 4:39:51 AM)

Liquid cooling an airplane engine makes as much sense as air cooling a submarine engine!



Willdo -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/31/2005 7:11:52 AM)

Yes, and if the good Lord had meant us to fly, he'd have given us wings!, -
Overhead valves? what is wrong with the good old flathead! -
Why did we have to do away with steam! -
These new fangled computer things! -
I don't need the internet, I just go to the library instead! -
I don't need email, I just sit down and write a letter!
etc. etc. etc. [8|]



fiery -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/31/2005 7:23:57 AM)

It's funny how some people resist change.

A few years ago, ultralights and microlights were invariably powered by air cooled 2 strokes. Now, liquid cooled 4 strokes are rapidly displacing them as technology and manufacturing processes improve.

Even my friend with a trike has a water cooled rotax for power. There is now an ultralight now available that is powered by a liquid cooled Benz diesel - considered impossible until recently. Still, naysayers and diehards make things interesting. It would be dull if we all held the same views, whether the subject is r/c model or full size aircraft.

I'm sure MVVS have done their homework with this offering.



Strykaas -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/31/2005 9:44:45 AM)

Check this out [:D] :



carlosponti -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/31/2005 4:06:11 PM)

for the plane they have it on its probably impractical. however if you are going to build a scale mustang for example it would be neat to put the radiator where it was in the full scale under the plane in that big air scoop. considering the fact that alot of full scale aircraft are liquid cooled i think it is just about time that someone created this for planes. when you start getting into the 40% percent scale then its going to work just fine. considering these engines and plane combos are overpowered for thier wieght maybe this would help in scale flight appearence anyhow.



Flypaper 2 -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (5/31/2005 11:38:29 PM)

Would work well on an inline twin for more even cooling, or how about an inline four.[:D]



fiery -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (6/1/2005 3:39:29 AM)

Now we're talking! An inline four would be sweet.

Hat's off to the MVVS engineers for bringing this on. It will be interesting see if any other manufacturers follow. I'm sure this will not have gone unnoticed by 3W and ZDZ.



rcdude7 -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (6/1/2005 7:00:20 AM)

I think it was just a matter of time before someone tried liquid cooling a R/C plane engine. All most all makers of high-performance two-strokes have gone to liquid cooling, so it is really mainstream in the rest of the engine world. The upside is more power, and an engine that will last longer at higher power levels because of more uniform cylinder cooling. The downside would be added complexity and the need for cooling system maintenance. A leak or lack of upkeep could lead to a fried engine very quickly. I would expect this engine to be much less forgiving than aircooled when it comes to neglect. It will be neat to see if this concept goes anywhere with modelers.



carlosponti -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (6/1/2005 4:23:03 PM)

the only drawback in full scale was weapons fire. the mustang was notoriously famous for getting shot in the cooling system and have the engine seize. so as long as no one is shooting at your warbird you have nothing to worry about :D



cu. in. -> RE: New liquid cooled gas aero engine ! (6/1/2005 4:42:27 PM)

I just reviewed the preceding 24 posts and can find no mention of actual cost. Does anybody know what this engine costs? Let's face it, cost matters in this hobby. If it didn't, there would be no market for the Fuji, Zenoah type engines. My point is this, if the additional cost drives this engine into the price range of a 60 to 80 cc engine, then why not just buy a 60-80 cc air-cooled engine instead?

Bruce



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