RE: Activity is low  
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[Poll]

Activity is low


Keep it forever.
  44% (19)
Keep it for another month, we'll bring more traffic.
  9% (4)
Kill it.
  46% (20)


Total Votes : 43


(last vote on : 8/1/2005 7:25:47 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Activity is low - 6/13/2005 6:45:14 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01
Your selective memory is mixing up completely different issues....


More likely my selective source of information, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.
The fact remains, your credibility, motives and 'modus operandi' remain in question....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01
.......now that we have established what a terrible person I am, can we stick to the issue, which.......by the way was about lack of traffic, not whether or not certain individuals should be allowed to use the internet.



Your "track" may be about traffic, but I think there is a broader issue of greater importance:
I am not a fan of having M.A.A.C. (notice correct spelling as I am not concerned about legal ramifications since I have no hostile intent) being dragged through the mud with implications and spin doctoring.

----------------------

I though we had "wiped the slate clean" in a previous thread on this forum, it's sad how easily we slip back into old roles.

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(in reply to Sharpy01)
       Post #: 26

RE: Activity is low - 6/13/2005 7:18:56 PM   
Sharpy01



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre


I though we had "wiped the slate clean" in a previous thread on this forum, it's sad how easily we slip back into old roles.


We're human Jim. We both suck at times. I can accept that we disagree on politics, but it does not prevent us from discussing toy planes. Hell, I'd still share a beer (or coffee) some time and swap plane BS with you. Personally, I think you have listened way too much to a few individuals who took everything I said or done from day one as some kind of personal insult. Too bad for them. It's time they got over it.

As for my credibility, rest assured that is intact. Motives and MO are simply to educate the silent and apathetic majority and expose some of the BS and underbelly of an organization that has functioned unquestioned for too many years............thus the "MAAK" poke as it's a play on spelling relating to old soviet style politics..............a little poke, that's all.

(in reply to Jim_McIntyre)
       Post #: 27

RE: Activity is low - 6/13/2005 8:23:14 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



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Fair enough, things are not always as they seem.

My main beef is with your apparent attempts to make things seem much worse than they are, I fail to see any evidence of "cloak and dagger" shenanigans or "old boys club" behaviours, and yes, I have attended executive meetings (as an observer).

The sky is not falling, nor is MAAC a front for some dark, devious goings on. When things do go wrong, I think it's more a direct result of the fact that MAAC relies heavily on volunteers and as a result suffers in terms of quality, continuity and follow-through as a result.

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       Post #: 28

RE: Activity is low - 6/13/2005 11:12:09 PM   
britbrat


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

The sky is not falling, nor is MAAC a front for some dark, devious goings on. When things do go wrong, I think it's more a direct result of the fact that MAAC relies heavily on volunteers and as a result suffers in terms of quality, continuity and follow-through as a result.



True enough, but that shouldn't exempt MAAC & its policies & endeavors from criticism. Like any other enterprise, MAAC won't get better, or learn from its experiences unless it is subject to critical review, & if necessary, forced accountability.

The stiffling of criticism may not emmanate directly from MAAC -- but it may be directed, suggested, or encouraged by certain individuals within MAAC. That is not in MAAC's best interest as an organization, & certainly not in the membership's best interest.

Everyone has the right to personal opinions, including those about MAAC, be they positive or negative. As members of this forum they also have the right to express those opinions, within the behavioural boundaries established by RCU. That is not the case in all RC forums that deal with MAAC issues. One can agree or disagree with posted opinions, and one can even be embarassed by expressed opinions, but to attempt to eliminate the right to express particular opinions is very low and unworthy behaviour. It runs contrary to the most basic democratic principles and is a fundamentally destructive activity.

Leave the forum alone. RCU can handle its own business quite nicely.

(in reply to Jim_McIntyre)
       Post #: 29

RE: Activity is low - 6/14/2005 12:45:02 AM   
Jim_McIntyre



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quote:

ORIGINAL: britbrat
Leave the forum alone. RCU can handle its own business quite nicely.


I will be the first to defend the freedom of speech, but that freedom carries responsibility.

The simple fact is that this is not RCU business that is being discussed, it is MAAC's business.

I would think MAAC should have some say about how how they are represented. We are MAAC and, as a MAAC member, I find some of the accusations and innuendo highly offensive.

Not only does it discredit the efforts of some very hard working volunteers ( which leads to even fewer people coming forward as volunteers ) but, it does very serious public relations damage.

You may think you are "making a difference" well, you are. Unfortunately it's not necessarily the kind of impact you may be intending to make (or maybe it is?).

The AMA forums are a good model for this impact. Go read them, then tell me your overall impression with AMA, keeping in mind, if you were a newbie investigating the hobbie, would you want to join such an organization? Now visit the AMA website with the same intentions .... see any difference?

No MAAC may not be perfect (what organization is?) but, there are methods built into the organization for dealing with issues....

What do you really expect to resolve by endless fingerpointing and character assasinations?

Use this forum for contributing positive ideas instead of criticism and we may effect positive change.
Use it for sniping, and we will continue to argue ad nauseum until we all tire of the same old arguments....

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       Post #: 30

RE: Activity is low - 6/14/2005 1:12:14 AM   
britbrat


 

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So where is the finger pointing & accusations?

I'm a MAAC member too & I want the organization to survive -- it's in our best interest as modellers, but perhaps not everyone has the same agenda as I do. I want a clean, transparent and accountable organization that considers critical review a necessary part of doing business.

I'm not accusing anyone specific of trying to close this forum, or suppress freedom of expression -- but someone is trying to do it. This forum has a substantial number of MAAC members -- members who have every right to discuss MAAC business here. RCU is simply the host & has no vested interest in the activity, other than it is activity that increases it's membership.

If you are offended by discussion of MAAC (or AMA) business, don't read it -- and don't try to stop others from reading it.

(in reply to Jim_McIntyre)
       Post #: 31

RE: Activity is low - 6/14/2005 1:35:18 AM   
Jim_McIntyre



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quote:

ORIGINAL: britbrat
So where is the finger pointing & accusations?


One need not read far to find it ....

quote:

ORIGINAL: britbrat
I'm a MAAC member too & I want the organization to survive -- it's in our best interest as modellers, but perhaps not everyone has the same agenda as I do. I want a clean, transparent and accountable organization that considers critical review a necessary part of doing business.


Provide me with an example of such an organization and we'll use that as a model to rebuild MAAC.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: britbrat
If you are offended by discussion of MAAC (or AMA) business, don't read it -- and don't try to stop others from reading it.


[monty pyton-esque]help, I'm being repressed! [/monty python-esque]

I am offended and will continue to defend my position, than you very much.

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       Post #: 32

RE: Activity is low - 6/14/2005 2:09:21 AM   
Sharpy01



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From: Kenora, ON, CANADA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

Fair enough, things are not always as they seem.

My main beef is with your apparent attempts to make things seem much worse than they are, I fail to see any evidence of "cloak and dagger" shenanigans or "old boys club" behaviours, and yes, I have attended executive meetings (as an observer).

The sky is not falling, nor is MAAC a front for some dark, devious goings on. When things do go wrong, I think it's more a direct result of the fact that MAAC relies heavily on volunteers and as a result suffers in terms of quality, continuity and follow-through as a result.


Perhaps we agree after all on some politics. I don't believe there are "dark goings on", but more an issue of conflicting personalities and different priorities and a "few" who border on fanaticism while trying to protect the status quo.

Believe it or not, my entry into the political arena was quite innocent and maybe even interesting?

In 92, I transferred to a wee place that bordered the USA and hunted down a RC pilot in the area to help me learn the hobby I had desperately wanted to become involved in since I was a kid. As it turned out, the only active modeller was in the US and I began flying there. I was told I needed insurance and because we flew in the US, I was introduced to the AMA and the fledgling SFA. I chose the SFA because it was cheaper. New of MAAC, but assumed it was no good on the US side. (didn't know better)

Eventually found a vacant field on our side and started a club, learned the rules of MAAC and chartered. (Insurance reasons were my only interest) It's only been a dozen years, but the internet was in it's infantcy when a began flying and one night stumbled upon RConline. Thought it was neat to be able to talk to other modellers while quite isolated from most and figured out how to use a fledgling forum freebe site to start up the first Canadian dedicated R/C discussion forum. Pretty crude, but I lay claim to the first national site thanks to an wayward email from a national R/C Distributor that had all their customer emails attached. Remember, this was some time ago and I didn't even know what "SPAM" was. Regardless, I used the data base to send out the message that the forum existed and managed a modest membership from various parts of the country.

Not being a political animal, I had no idea that there was a sport vs competition tug-of-war going on within the organization. As you may have guessed, that didn't last for long. Quite frankly, I found the us vs them junk entertaining because it had little effect on what I was doing.

this is where things changed...........

At some point, I began asking questions as to budget numbers and where the membership money was spent. I had assumed that most went to insurance, which most know now to not be the case. Now curious, I began trying to find out where to obtain actual numbers and raising questions as to why the distribution of membeship money was the way it was. ...............

It wasn't long before a familiar core of folks appeared on the forum with rather angry and arrogant tones suggesting that the site was there only to "bash" MAAK and that the internet was no place to discuss the business of MAAK and that we should stop discussing issues and (here's the kicker) ..............if I wanted to get the real story and learn, then get involved, go to the zone meeting and find out what it's all about.

............well, their attitude and attacking demenour for asking what I thought were pretty valid questions, motivated me to take their advice and playing by the rules of the association, I was soon representing the zone and on the board right in the thick of more than I could have imagined was possible in the world of toy airplanes. My mission during my tenure was to help keep issues that I felt were most important to the majority of the membership at the forefront and try and educate as many members as I could about issues and make the business end more transparent.

As it turned out, they didn't really mean it because I was on their $#it list before I was out of the blocks and yes, those same core members that prompted my political interest, are the same core group that dogged and attacked at every turn while on the board and continue to follow me around the cyberworld hoping that eventually I'll shut up.

That's it in a nutshell. In the end, I made some mistakes along the way and was every bit as bull-headed at times, but always stuck to the facts and truth as I knew them.

My interest on forums comes and goes and fills time when I only have a few minutes or the weather sucks (which has been a lot lately as you may have noticed). Maybe the weather will get better soon and I can get back to shuttin up again so the dogs on my leg can let go and get back to whatever it is that they enjoy more.

Bottom line Jim:

I understand why I don't make your Christmas card list, but there is much you are unaware of. Nothing personal.


< Message edited by Sharpy01 -- 6/14/2005 2:11:38 AM >

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       Post #: 33

RE: Activity is low - 6/14/2005 2:16:54 AM   
Sharpy01



Posts: 600
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From: Kenora, ON, CANADA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

[monty pyton-esque]help, I'm being repressed! [/monty python-esque]



"Holy Grail" quotes??

......hehe........man, we may have more in common than you care to know.

Perhaps we should all stick around to ........

...."make sure, Eee dosn't leave."

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       Post #: 34

RE: Activity is low - 6/14/2005 2:36:13 AM   
Jim_McIntyre



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From: Claremont, ON, CANADA
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The fanatics will always be around, they may unintentionally detract from their "Holy Grail" but, the grail is unaffected by this behaviour.

What I mean is, there are many well intentioned people defending a refined system that, although not perfect, does work. My concern is that tearing down something that works without providing an alternative is destructive work.

I have little time for those that criticise while providing no viable alternative. It's easy to criticise MAAC, or any other long standing organization for it's external behaviour but, difficult to understand why it has evolved to it's current state, or how it's internal behaviour emerges.....

I don't claim to understand MAAC, I know it does a lot of good and gets little credit for it. I also observe that it's very publicly chastised REPEATEDLY for any perceived mistake by a small disgruntled group who claim their aim is to "educate the masses".

Borrowing another priceless Python quote to illustrate my point:
BURN HER, SHE'S A WITCH!
How do you know she's a witch?
... SHE TURNED ME INTO A NEWT!!!!
... uh ... I got better.


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       Post #: 35

RE: Activity is low - 6/14/2005 4:04:31 AM   
jhelps


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

... and so it continues.

You want revisionist history?

As Jeff admits, posts were edited etc... what he fails to mention (likely because most editing took place prior to his moderating) is that the only edits were to posts from one side of the discussion.


I can't speak much for what went on before, that was Keith Morrison's job if I remember correctly, however I mostly followed his lead and removed offensive comment leaving the jist of the argument. There was one post that I think I removed in its entirety, however upon reflection I had the website owner restore it. And Jim, at least while I was there I edited, anyone regardless of who they were or where they were from, if they went beyond the forum rules.

quote:



I wasn't the one doing the banning but, my recollection is that more than one person was banned, and if I'm not mistaken, there were some legal happenings resulting from a post by Mr Sharpe ... ( that wasn't edited ) ... that was considered serious enough require an enforced public apology by the same Mr Sharpe who is playing innocent here....


I was going to insist that only one was banned however after a fair amount of looking through old e-mail I discovered that indeed three were banned - I also asked that an additional one be suspended however the website owner chose to caution him.
quote:



and Jeff, if I recall, you stepped in as a moderator around the time I asked to have myself (and all my posts) removed ... after most of this went down..... Maybe you could elaborate on why you too eventually asked to be removed as moderator?


Jim my recollection is that you were there for some time after I took on the task, I was actually disappointed that you left as I thought you brought a lot to the table. Why I asked to leave was simple, I no longer had the time nor desire to police folks who clearly did not want policing. The exact text is still at the other site under the topic "another disaster looming". By the way I was interested to note on the SW zone web site that one of the most vitrolic posters on the MBZ site was nominated as a "leader in the MAAC community". I'm certain he has some excellent qualities, they were just never demonstrated on the site I tried to moderate.


quote:



The spin doctoring by this crew continues.

Fine, leave this forum open, it will continue to fester until someone finally pulls the plug.

RCUNIVERSE:
Ask yourself, do any of this lot have anything POSITIVE to contribute? Check their site (MBZ) before you consider, do you want this same content/behaviour brought here? ....


To be fair also look at some of the prolific past posters at the MBZ site whose "home" site is elsewhere. You will note that they saved their nastiest stuff for the MBZ site as they would have been shut down and removed in an instant from their current site if they tried that type of posting there.

Overall it would be great if folks could target issues not each other.

JH

(in reply to Jim_McIntyre)
       Post #: 36

RE: Activity is low - 6/14/2005 4:15:36 AM   
jhelps


 

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"No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!

We have two main weapons ... fear ... surprise ... and an ...

Three, three main weapons ... fear ... surprise ... and an almost fanatical dedication to the pope"

JH


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       Post #: 37

RE: Activity is low - 6/14/2005 4:19:38 AM   
mgaddison