Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (Full Version)

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credence -> Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/6/2005 4:02:58 AM)

I've seen alot of posts on here from various people who complain about Walkera products and their problems and how they hate them and they're cheap and on and on.
I will start this post out by saying that, in general, Walkera electronics are cheap (namely the servos), and there isn't much debate to be had in it, however, a thought ocurred to me earlier today about these helicopters and their users, especially the Walkera #4 Dragonfly, which is most certainly the most popular of their product line.

The biggest thing with these helicopters is that they're absurdly cheap compared to their competition, with a full ready to fly #4 at a scant $80 when all other major manufacturers charge upwards of $200 for, generally speaking, a model that is nearly identical with the exception of a few minor part differences and higher quality electronics.
The result of these extremely cheap helicopters is that you get TONS of newbies who buy them because of the very attractive price point. It's a good bet that 80% of all Walkera #4 users purchased the helicopter and plunged head first into the hobby knowing little to nothing about it.
Being the case that most of the users are new to the hobby, I think this may account for a good deal of the "problems" people have with these helicopters.

It seems to me that most posts I read on here about people who have trouble with these copters is because of the chopper being setup incorrectly, or simply someone in-experienced at flying and crashing it and then blaming it on the helicopter. In other words, most of the problems with this helicopter may be user error, not mechanical.

I have found, personally, that Walkera products, WHEN SET UP CORRECTLY, function very well for their price compared to the much more expensive models that don't offer a whole lot more. I know because I was very frustrated with my Walkera product when I first got it (being a complete newbie to the hobby). However, after alot of practice (and crashes, and part replacement), alot of reading online about proper setup (getting rid of shakes, blade balancing, flybar placement, gear meshing, etc.) lo and behold, the chopper flew, and well, even!

I've started this post not so much as a defense for Walkera, but more as a discussion as to the basis of the plethora of problems people have with Fixed Pitch helis in general, which have become much more common with the release of the Walkera #4.

It's my firm belief that, as I look back on my learning curve, had I started with a more expensive model (Such as a humming bird, GWS dragonfly, etc.) That I would've had alot of the same problems that I had with my Walkera chopper. This is also evident to me as I own a GWS Dragonfly ontop of my Walkera heli and find the common "newbie mistakes" to affect them both the same way, and they also generally fly the same. (The Walkera is actually more stable in flight than the GWS heli, due to the lousy PHA-01 3in1 board that GWS makes. I've replaced it with a Walkera 4in1 box and it flies MUCH better).

I'd be interested in hearing others comments on this and what you think. Are the helicopters as bad as they seem, or is it really just a matter of total newbie meets complex flying machine?





cptsnoopy -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/6/2005 6:38:25 AM)

I think you pretty much spelled it out. This theory has been mentioned before in the walkera threads. :)

The general consensus is that the heli's are mechanically sound but the electronics are iffy at best. it is better for the newbie to get seperate electronics to ensure the best chance of learning to fly without having to deal with problems that they are not causing. we purchased 4 #4 dragonfly's at one time. at least one of them has not flown successfully since we got it 3 months ago. another one has been very good flying and very stable. however even that one has an occassional glitch from the radio.

when i got my #35, i knew by then that i would have to look it over very carefully before attempting to try it for the first time. I found that it was way out of rig and if i had attempted to fly it there would have been instant damage. no problems if you check it over and fix those problems first. again however, when i did try it after getting it set up the radio was faulty and i was able to get it stopped before any damage occurred. i changed out the receiver, esc and servos. now it flys pretty good. i have been very lucky with it and so far it has no scratch's yet. (knocking on plastic :D ) When I went to order a 35 for my brother I bought it without the radio gear. the supplier was nice enough to leave the gyro with it even though i did not ask for it. so we started with a non walkera radio and it also flys great. that heli has had a hard landing and other than the bevel tail gear stripping it was good to go fly again. (whew!) :)




hueyman -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/6/2005 4:20:01 PM)

i'll second that. i've had a little more success with mine after spending a lot of setup time before first attempt at lift off. replaced servos only all else is working fine. however, thats $45 extra added to the original purchase and it seems like the bad servos are a given...not good. i say market the heli for $45 less w/o servos if you can't supply it with servos that work. other than that, i'm good with it. hovering is progressing fine. upgraded to brushless because i want more efficiency for longer flight times not because i had to...original motor/esc still works. BTW, my idle mode works fine with the brushless setup. a few have posted that their idle mode will not work with a seperate esc.




credence -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/6/2005 5:47:53 PM)

I believe RC-Expert sells barebone #35's (Z400) for just that purpose.
It seems Walkera servos are something of a hit and miss. Some people report zero problems, others get non-stop chattering.
For me, personally, the servos started out relatively quiet, but got gradually worse after a few crashes, untill they would't stop chattering at all and were begging replacement. Luck of the draw, I suppose.




budgiesmate -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/7/2005 12:32:40 AM)

I was quite impressed with the 35# I bought off ebay, and despite all the bad press I was determined to make mine fly and prove them all wrong. I thought I would be the first person ever to make one of these babies fly if the comments I had been reading were anything to go by. As it happens I still havent flown it successfully despite many weeks methodically and thoroughly checking the setup and making sure that everything was as it should be. Despite being new to r/c helis I'm not new to models or mechanics, so I was pretty much able to sort out what went where and what was supposed to do what, but although they said it would fly right out of the box, it was quite clear to me that it had just been thrown together in haste rather than carefully assembled, and would never have flown out of the box.

If I were to buy another I would buy it as a kit and assemble it properly from scratch. The helicopter itself is sound, no reason why it shouldnt fly, its a nice simple uncomplicacated, uncluttered design, and the simplest ideas are often the best arent they. Mine kept doing odd things though, which I can only put down to interference, or simply because the radio is like something out of a Christmas cracker. I'm gonna install a good radio and I'm sure I'll eventually be having hours of fun flying it, can't wait. [8D]




dragon_no_fly -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/7/2005 1:34:28 AM)

Credence, I could not agree with you more, you are 100% correct in regards to Walkera. I own a Walkera DragonFly #4 and have gone to a full separates setup on it and have learned to do nose in hovers and circuits with it not knowing anything at all about r/c helicopters. The heli is a work horse plain and simple, I love it and at the time of writing this post, with the separates setup, I have a full 50 flights on the same tail motor. I would never go out and buy a GWS Mini DragonFly, I have also flown the GWS PHA-01 on this heli and have a detailed post about its performance and setup. Yes, in the future I would like to buy a HEAVIER, collective pitch helicopter so that I can fly outside in more windy conditions, but that is the future. In my opinion, you can't beat the Walkera #4 for flying around your house or zipping around your yard, it will get the job done just as good as $250 fixed pitch kits will, that's the interesting point...




JohnY2004 -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/7/2005 2:02:33 AM)

When the LEDs on the tx turn light green, it's time to stop flying and recharge the batteries in the tx or you ask for radio gitch. Make sure the LEDs on the tx stay solid green all the time.




credence -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/7/2005 4:59:05 AM)

I've been eyeing the #35 for awhile now. It's esentially a direct clone of a Shogun which is really nice, and if setup properly should fly well, not to mention just about anything that fits the shogun will work in the #35.
I've never done collective pitch helis though, i'm still messing around with my fixed pitch :). But I haven't been all that unsatisfied with Walkera (less the servos) so the Z400 is likely going to be my first CP heli.




kosta4u2c -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/20/2005 1:02:14 AM)

could someone tell me what would be good electrics to put in if I want to go brushless




MotoEspantoso -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/20/2005 1:58:47 AM)

Like I mentioned in my other thread, I bought a Walkera #5 dragonfly, the "old" version that doesnt even have "real" servos. Despite tremendous bashing of this model on rcgroups and even on this site, I have flown it succesfully for about 10+ flights so far without a single crash. By simply taking my time to properly setup and trim the heli, I was able to get it to fly almost perfectly. I can now keep it in a stable hover for as long as I want, and I can fly it around quite well in my basement. Its not exactly an aerobatic performer, but it does its job well. I bought it as a quick and cheap means to get me back into helis, after I crashed and totaled my GWS dragonfly two years ago. So far it has served me very well and I have enjoy flying it several times a day with no problems, aside from an occasional but mild glitch. The servos are a bit sloppy, but I really didnt expect presicion ball bearing servos from a $100 helicopter. Back when I first looked at getting into helis, a decent setup was $600+, so being able to pick one of these up RTF off Ebay for $100 is like a dream come true for me. It is because of these cheap chinese helis that I have been able to get into a hobby that I once considered impossible and unaffordable.

IMO, there should be a sticky in the elec heli forum that explains the basics of mini heli setup, so that more newbies can properly set up their machines before taking off for the first time.




credence -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/20/2005 3:47:32 AM)

I've actually been toying with a fixed pitch heli setup guide that I may post soon when/if I finish it since it seems i'm often repeating my self in alot of these threads anyways [:)]




voltron1011 -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/29/2005 9:44:59 AM)

Mine was doing fine (after installing HS56 servos) however, after a few awesome flights it started commiting suicide. I blame it on cheap radio and reciever. I have new ones stuff on order from hobbypeople, and I hope that I'll be flying again....




rudeboy.inc -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/30/2005 1:02:58 AM)

Really the Heli is fineBUT Still is it worth it ??? now when you can get the zoom so cheap ..
Good Frame very sturdy good design but then again its a clone bUT ALL electrics except gyro are absolute useless (to put it mild) You will crash and there nothing you can do ...
[:D]




futura -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/30/2005 3:53:27 PM)

Those of us with any experience are doing the people, that are looking into RC Heli's for the first time, a disservice by advocating Walkera products in any way.

All electronics aside, the Walkera products are inferior in all ways. The plastic they use to manufacture their heli's is cheap and brittle. If you have ever replaced a walkera part with a part from the designs they copied eg. 22a parts replaced with hornet II or #35 parts replaced with shogun/zoom parts....you know what I'm talking about. Its not just the electronics.

Even if you don't crash the heli's, the walkera parts new are loosely specked and have alot more "slop" then say an evo-flight part. After a few flights on a walkera, the parts wear super quick and that brings even more slop into an already sloppy machine.

what this means to the overall hobby experience is that even though the new pilot may be getting better, the heli is taking all his gained experience just to keep it relatively still and in the air......this means that the transition from hover to fff takes longer if it ever happens before total frustration sets in due to dissapointment in the overall experience or budget constraints.

Getting these walkera products to do fff takes both the patience of a saint and the creative abilities of a god.....and it cannot be done at all if the budget is capped by the initial expense of say $250. If we say things in this forum to make newcomers believe that their dream of flying around the inside of the gym can be realized for less than $400 at the least, we are including ourselves in this scam. Those that continue to try and convence people that this is a good deal in anyway are either in walkera sales or are having personal issues admitting to themselves that we all got RIPPED OFF.

Like Contact303 said, the shogun/zoom/TRex are so low priced now that if you go and buy a base walkera for $50 to save $50 and not buy a shogun ($99).....you are getting into the wrong hobby. Good RC equipment is not cheap but you'll pay $400 at least for a good "plank", $400 at least for a good offroad truck (E-Maxx/T-Maxx is $450).....With the new micro electronics, we can now fly 3D capable Heli's for $500 and have a good experience. That's half the price of the slimers, who's price was truly intemidating a couple years back. Even slimer heli prices are in the $650 range but you'll pay a k to get a good starting setup.

Stop kidding yourselves and others.....heli's must be machanically sound to be stable in flight. You can buy a walkera and upgrade till it "fly's" or you can buy the real thing and start having the experience of your dreams alot sooner....either way, its going to cost you.

bare bones heli - $100
Brushed ESC - $40
Radio TX/RX/Servo's - $250
Gyro basic - $40
tools and build up - $50

These prices are bargan barrel and low at that....especially the tools and buildup. That's $500 with tax. Your LHS can set you up for close to this and because you buy from them you get their help...which is priceless. Best of all you don't have to gamble on ebay or china orders.

Lets try and be realistic and helpful....please




credence -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/30/2005 4:22:33 PM)

Perhaps it is different with the the CP birds, but the build materials between my #4 and my GWS Dragonfly look the same, and both helis fly the same, too. Heck, half the parts are even interchangeable. And that's a $300 vs $80 price difference. I would gladly buy another Walkera fixed pitch heli if I ever smash mine into bits, although, i'm moving away from micros and up to mid sizers now, so I wouldn't buy any micro (t-rex, shogun or Walkera).

It would be good to understand that many people don't want to sink $800 into a hobby, and some of these cheaper Walkera helis do fly very well for their price range if setup correctly. But it's one of those things where you simply get what you pay for. Don't spend $100 on a helicopter and expect it to do the same thing an $800 dollar helicopter does, otherwise, yes, you will be very dissapointed with your product, but that's plain logic which applies to any product, not just helicopters.

I think Walkera is filling a very important need in the industry right now in allowing people to get into the hobby. It is, perhaps, the reason alot of companies are beginning to cut their prices aswell. The flipside of this is that the machines come poorly setup due to no doubt cheap labour at the factory, and require the knowledge of someone who knows their way about helis to configure them properly, and most anyone who's knowledgeable probably wouldn't buy a Walkera bird to begin with.
Hence that was the point of this post, in regards to Walkeras bad rep, especially on these forums, coming from people who simply don't understand the mechanics of their helicopter.

I wouldn't run around championing Walkera as the saviour of Micro RC helicopters, but I really don't believe they deserve much of the bad rep they recieve. (with, of course, the exception of them copying every other RC manufacturer's designs instead of making their own, which is really lame, but eh..)





futura -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (6/30/2005 4:26:45 PM)

BTW - I cannot speak to the value of the FP walkera products for a intro/training excersize. They may fit the bill perfectly for that short term experience but I can't see that those parts would last much better for long term expectations.

I'm speaking mainly from a CP point of view.

My purely personal oppinion of FP heli's is that if you are using this as a learning step, spending $200 on a Flight simulator is better training experience and less costly for an individual as they progress through the heli hobby. After the first three crashes on the sim...you've paid for it in comparable parts and repairs.

If you are getting a FP heli for a long term and don't plan to go CP any time soon, get something that your LHS carries so you have a ready source for parts and upgrades.




ryan_f289 -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (12/23/2005 2:01:30 AM)

the walkera dragonfly 35/36 are great beacuse they are so cheap. you can find parts all over and if you want better parts there are always the aftermarket parts for other 400 seres helis like zoom 400 shogun and even some t-rex parts will work just make sure that the parts you get are the right size or can be altered easily to work.




hooleydog -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (12/24/2005 12:29:53 AM)

Hi all, I have a Walkera Dragonfly no10 and it flys great. I did though (first) took out the pcb from the tranny and touched up the solder joints that didn't look too good and the 4in1 pcb too, as I've done alot of pcb building and soldering over the years. The heli is fine but I do agree that the electronics are iffy cos the hand soldering that they do on the through hole components is crap (the surface mount components were ok) so their electronics wouldn't pass QC if the pcbs were built like that in the UK or the US)




credence -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (12/24/2005 2:09:10 AM)

Damn, this is an old post. You pesky forum diggers [:)]




snappa -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (12/24/2005 6:22:17 AM)

I have a dragonfly 39 and have only just got it flying corectly,,,would I buy one again??? NO WAY EVER and just in case you wonder I am not a newbie and have a fully blinged caliber which is a beutiful machine....I have had to replace the tai totally as the existing one collapsed,,put terex parts on it,, replaced the main gear,, had hassles with the wires falling off the tail servo,, and on it goes.....some of the faults I have had were due to shoddy workmanship which to be fair I should have picked up before it was too late unfortunatly for me it is my second chopper and I didnt want to spend too much as a terex and all the gear would have cost me about $NZ900




ryan_f289 -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (12/24/2005 7:03:51 PM)

i am tired of all these people who are so excited that they got a helo off of ebay for $120 and then come to places like this and start complaining about how they got it out of the box, charged the battery and tried to fly w/no experience even on sims and crash. no RTF helo purchased anywhere (unless it has been already flown by a professional)will fly out of the box. you must take your time to fine tune your helo to its own flying characteristics. you cannot start complaining about anything untill you spend the time to understand what you are doing.
when i first started out i found out all i could about helos from sites like these and used it to help get my dragonfly 35 flight ready. and yes i got frustrated when i crashed. but i am still flying.

TAKE YOUR TIME get a sim or a cheap helo and dont start venting on here because you didn't tighten a screw and threw a rotor blade causing the whole thing to shake apart.


_________________________
If it ain't broke you ain't tryin'




snappa -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (12/25/2005 7:57:00 AM)

RYAN they are just rubbish more proof? hovering mine yesterday and with a poof of smoke im now in for a new motor and controller....I should have brought a tr-rex




ultraviolet -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (12/25/2005 8:20:48 AM)

Futura, Walkera heli's ARE cheap, your right !!

They do fly really fine when they are setup correctly though.
( docile even ). The Walkeras are an excellent step up from
newbie helis like the Blade, without the fast responsiveness
of the Trex.

Credence, Rock' N Roll [8D]\


Religion is cyclic pitch

[;)]




ngbninja -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (12/25/2005 11:19:05 PM)

I had a 35# destroy its self in "flight" (god knows how) even after several checks and double checks!
Got to be the most random company ever, hit and miss thing.




GhostCav -> RE: Walkera products, are they really that bad, or is it the users? (12/26/2005 12:40:43 AM)

I wanted a RC heli that was cheap enough to see if I could get into the hobby.Bought a walkera #36 & I'm hooked now.Mine fly's fine on its standard motor & 650mAh battery.The helicopter was setup by the importer in the UK,not by walkera's QC & the first time I tried it it flew.It's only made 6 flights so far(all today as it was an xmas present) that were all around the 8 minute mark.Also has had quite a few heavy landings on the lawn (New to flying RC heli's) & 3 times today its gone over on it's side without any damage whatsoever,just straighten the blades(Remembered that tip to shut the throttle/collective in the event of a crash).The one time was a head on control error,another one was got the training gear caught in long grass on takeoff & the last one was due to someone's mobile phone going off & disrupting the TX for a second or two. I'd never flown an RC heli before today & yet I managed a 1 1/2 minute non stop hover/slow flight without touching down.I love this helicopter & I love the way that I can use parts from other similar heli's as it just makes getting spares that much easier.It was worth every penny I spent on it & am very happy with it,I have a futaba RX/TX to put on when I want to as well as brushless motor/esc & 1800 Li-po which I will get around to doing soon.






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