NATS Profits?

NATS Profits?
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NATS Profits? - 6/10/2005 2:34:08 AM

Sharpy01

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Here's a thorny one:

If the reports are true, and the MAAC/SW Zone Chatam NATS are positioned to make a profit. Where should the profit go?

When the MAAC/SW Zone World scale event went into the red by a steep margin, MAAC, and thus the membership, picked up the losses.

Does it stand to reason that a National/International sponsored MAAC event that turns a profit go back to the membership? Or at least a split profit agreement between MAAC and hosting clubs? Or........

Using last years FAI glider event in Alta as an example, a modest profit was realized. I may be corrected, but I believe some of the profit went back to the membership.

I'll tell you right now, there is no set policy so it's a great one for debate.

Personally, if the members money is being risked and put up when there are losses, they should certainly be entitled to share in any profits.

What are your thoughts?

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/10/2005 1:24:01 PM

Jim_McIntyre

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MAAC is an organization tasked with promoting the hobby, not to engage in profit making ventures.

If an event makes a profit, great. If funding came from MAAC, and sweat equity from local clubs, both should profit.

If an event loses money (<sarcasm>gee, how could a promotion actually cost money?</sarcasm>

, the hobby (and all us participants) still win as MAAC has accomplished one of it's tasks.

If an event loses a 'lot' of money, some lessons may be learned.

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/10/2005 7:16:32 PM

britbrat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

If an event loses a 'lot' of money, some lessons may be learned.

Sure hope so.

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/11/2005 9:17:54 AM

4*60

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quote: If an event makes a profit, great. If funding came from MAAC, and sweat equity from local clubs, both should profit.

Absolutely

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/13/2005 3:58:36 PM

britbrat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4*60

quote: If an event makes a profit, great. If funding came from MAAC, and sweat equity from local clubs, both should profit.

Absolutely

Agreed, but in what ratio?

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/13/2005 6:29:11 PM

Jim_McIntyre

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quote:

ORIGINAL: britbrat
Agreed, but in what ratio?

I think it would be safest to leave this as a negotiable since different types of events require variable effort, and both organizers and MAAC should not be held to some catch-all ruling. IOW, do we really have to legislate everything?

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/13/2005 11:16:55 PM

britbrat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

quote:

ORIGINAL: britbrat
Agreed, but in what ratio?

I think it would be safest to leave this as a negotiable since different types of events require variable effort, and both organizers and MAAC should not be held to some catch-all ruling. IOW, do we really have to legislate everything?

Yes, where other people's (members') money is involved. It could be negotiable, but the limits of negotiability, and accountability for the negotiated deal must be firmly established.

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/14/2005 12:23:33 AM

Jim_McIntyre

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quote:

ORIGINAL: britbrat
Yes, where other people's (members') money is involved. It could be negotiable, but the limits of negotiability, and accountability for the negotiated deal must be firmly established.

I would think that MAAC money spend is ultimately at the discretion of the people we elect to represent our interests....

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/14/2005 1:00:18 AM

britbrat

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Hmmmm. Trust us with your money -- we know what we are doing & we know what you want. I might agree with you (maybe), but I'm not at all sure how many others would agree. I guess we'll find out.

< Message edited by britbrat -- 6/14/2005 1:03:00 AM >

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/14/2005 1:27:57 AM

Jim_McIntyre

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre
I would think that MAAC money spend is ultimately at the discretion of the people we elect to represent our interests....

The alternative is to call for a general vote on all expenditures .... what do you think that would cost.

It's easy to criticise, I would simply ask that you provide a viable alternative when criticising. This simple compromise should keep us on the friendly side of conversations.....

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/14/2005 2:39:34 PM

britbrat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: britbrat

Yes, where other people's (members') money is involved. It could be negotiable, but the limits of negotiability, and accountability for the negotiated deal must be firmly established.

I thought that I did make a suggestion --- put boundaries on the limits of negotiation.

Additionally, since the issue of distribution of profits rarely comes up, it would not be impractical to have the general membership approve the negotiated distribution of such profits.

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/15/2005 12:54:09 PM

kenair

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Could any of these event be held if there was no MAAK, therefore it is through general membership dollars that provide the intangible means to host such an event. One would think tt would only be common sense for the MAAK board and the event organizers to have an partnership agreement of sharing profits and losses.

Could one expect the general membership to provide the seed money, the mechanisim to host such an event and assume the debt if any and then not share in the profits in some way.

I would also think it would behove the special interests groups to return some of the event profit to the general organization,otherwise to keep the profits for their only special interest group would give the appearance of having only their own specific interests at heart wheicjh we know is not the case.

< Message edited by kenair -- 6/15/2005 9:14:54 PM >

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/15/2005 8:18:23 PM

britbrat

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Just for discussion, here are some of my thoughts on the possible distribution of profits from MAAC-sponsored major events.

If the distribution were to be based on a fixed formula, that formula should be directly approved by the membership before the first such distribution takes place. Thereafter, all future distributions would simply follow the formula.

In the case of a negotiated distribution, and since the generation of profits is infrequent, it would not be burdensome for the general membership to review the expenditure history and specifically approve or reject the distribution at the AGM, as part of the annual budgetary review and approval process.

If the proposed distribution failed to gain approval, the full amount of the profits should remain with MAAC itself.

I'm not sure, but it may be worthwhile to have the end-use of MAAC's portion of the profits pre-determined & approved as part of the same process.

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/15/2005 9:45:10 PM

Jim_McIntyre

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Guys .... MAAC is not a for-profit organization....

MAAC is organized to promote the hobby while providing a central communication vehicle.

MAAC is also primarily a volunteer organization. If events were run by paid employees, you may have a better case on your hands.

MAAC does not invest money in hopes of turning a profit, it spends our money to benefit the hobby as a whole, an expensed service.

The following issues arise from your proposals:

Given that different events require different levels of effort, and money to run;

A one size fits all solution will not work, it will result in haves and have-nots. Competitions by nature cost more to run than simple funflies. Simply put, complexity costs.

Providing different rules for different events can only lead to bickering.

I just don't see a viable solution to this problem.

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RE: NATS Profits? - 6/16/2005 6:25:05 PM

britbrat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

Guys .... MAAC is not a for-profit organization....

A one size fits all solution will not work, it will result in haves and have-nots. Competitions by nature cost more to run than simple funflies. Simply put