Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems...  
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All Forums >> RC Helicopters >> Electric RC Helis >> Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems...
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Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/11/2005 4:05:52 PM   
Skeletor


 

Posts: 146
Joined: 11/20/2003
From: Freeport, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I would like to know if anyone else has had problems or good experiances with this bird. So far, the "equipment needed" section didnt even come close to what I actually need but the real problem is with the battery(s). I bought 2, the exact part number recommened from EvoFlight, and both are way too wide. Is this a factory defect that has been addressed? What is the reputation of this bird and the company?... I am working in Baghdad Iraq and the LHS is on the other side of the world. Right now I'm waiting on double sided tape (that wasn't listed in the "parts needed" section either) to mount the gyro that was recommended but doesnt fit as specified. Since the reciver doesnt fit as called for either, I'll probally cut some foam out of the seat of a blown up Hummer wrap it up and stuff it in the nose of the fuse. Any input is welcome. James.
       Post #: 1

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/22/2005 7:03:24 PM   
Mr. Tom



Posts: 9
Joined: 6/11/2003
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I've had mine for only a couple of months, but it came pre-assembled and so I didn't have the problems you've mentioned. My only problem seems to be a general lack of power. My Zap 400 has the stock brushed motor, with 11.1V batteries (1800mAh and 1100mAh). With a lightweight training skid made of CRF rods and 4 ping pong balls it will break ground marginally but only when the batteries are very fresh. Above about 1/2 stick the collective is coming on strong and you can hear the motor start to bog down. I've tried reducing the rate the collective comes up by moving the servo pushrod to a closer in hole on the servo arm, but that didn't help.

Has anyone got any flight experience with the stock brushed motor, or does everyone just automatically go brushless with this bird?


_____________________________

Mr. Tom

(in reply to Skeletor)
       Post #: 2

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/22/2005 7:07:23 PM   
Mr. Tom



Posts: 9
Joined: 6/11/2003
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Oh yeah, I forgot to address Skeletor's question about the battery being too wide. My 1100mAh battery fits in the battery area, but the 1800mAh is slightly too wide and needs to be rubber-banded in there at about a 45 degree angle. I added a thin aluminum tray for the battery so it could be positioned closer to the nose, which moved the CG to the vertical rotorshaft (or slightly ahead of it). The directions included with the chopper don't mention anything about the CG, but I'm presuming it should balance on the rotorshaft.

_____________________________

Mr. Tom

(in reply to Mr. Tom)
       Post #: 3

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/23/2005 10:32:55 PM   
brownknows


 

Posts: 86
Joined: 12/9/2002
From: Indian Trail, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Skeletor,

I posted the same question about the battery being too wide on the Global Hobby support case. Turns out that the battery (I assume you are talking about the 1400mAH 11.1V battery - the yellow one) DOES fit, but it is very tight. If you push it into the compartment firmly, it will go.

Dave

(in reply to Skeletor)
       Post #: 4

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/24/2005 2:27:30 PM   
futura


 

Posts: 585
Joined: 2/23/2005
From: Mauldin, SC, USA
Status: offline 		I have 2 shoguns and enjoy them quite a bit. Best micro heli available in my oppinion. anyway, down to business.....

the shogun is tail heavy so consider installing an extension onto the front of the heli:

Solved by cutting out a piece of lite ply, notice the grain is running long ways for more strengh:

Used a permanent marker to paint it black:

Some use 30 min appoxi to glue it in....some use bolts & nuts with washers..

Personally, I used CF units that can be bought from http://www.helihobby.com/html/zoom_composites.html (see pic)

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< Message edited by futura -- 6/24/2005 2:37:08 PM >

(in reply to brownknows)
       Post #: 5

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/24/2005 2:42:28 PM   
futura


 

Posts: 585
Joined: 2/23/2005
From: Mauldin, SC, USA
Status: offline 		remember that the shogun is called such in the US, in EU and asia its the Zoom, in other parts its the Zap and Graupner makes the exact same machine also. There is a china junk pile called the dragonfly #35 but those parts are cheap, brittle and not worth the time of any sane person.

as for the gyro, most that fly this heli have applied this CF solution (see pic) also available online http://www.helihobby.com/html/zoom_composites.html

I keep putting up helihobby but these packages are widely available....I just want to provide an emediate reference for you. Helihobby has always treated me well but some have not has such good experiences. just look around.

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< Message edited by futura -- 6/24/2005 2:46:24 PM >

(in reply to futura)
       Post #: 6

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/24/2005 3:12:59 PM   
futura


 

Posts: 585
Joined: 2/23/2005
From: Mauldin, SC, USA
Status: offline 		As for the power issue:

The shogun loves RPM (headspeed). The stock motor is most efficient at 75% + power.

If your TX has the ability, displays curves and allows you to adjust them....

you want the collective to be 0 at half throttle....and for starters (hovering & practice) -3 at full down stick. At 75% stick, the pitch should be at 3 deg and 7 deg at full. the heli will start to hover at 3 degrees and should leave ground effect at 3.5....holding nicely at about 4'. In my case, I am getting this result with an 11.1 volt 1800mah lipo. I'm getting about 8 min flight time with this setup....a little low I admit but the lipo was a cheapo that came with one of those China crap piles that is now sitting (in perfect condition mind you) on the shelf.

So cut back on the pitch....you really don't need it right away...any more than 5 deg is not going to get used soon. increase the head speed (motor speed) untill your heli lifts at 3 - 3.5 degrees pitch.

you will notice that the increase in head speed will also increase the stability of the shogun at a hover.

Personally, I use a "throttle up" mode until the throttle/pitch stick is about 60% then switch to 3D/collective mode (no, I'm not doing 3D). My 3D/collective mode has 100 - 60 - 100 on the power curve.....so I have constant power and only worry about the pitch.

I start with the TX in "throttle up" mode and "Throttle hold" turned on (throttle hold keeps the motor from getting electricity while I get the heli ready). I then switch off "throttle hold" and spin up the heli to about two "clicks" past 50% on the throttle/pitch stick. This is about 1.5 deg pitch and the heli is just getting lite on the gear and the tail is in effect. I then switch to collective mode....this needs to set up rather carefully so you limit any "jumping" of either the power or pitch of the heli when switching between modes. Mine actually has a little less pitch in 3D mode at this stick position than in throttle up...so the helli actually sits down and the blades spin up fractionally faster (about 200 rpm).

from there you fly....

shut down is reversed......land the heli....set the stick to 50% (middle)...switch from 3D to throttle up....pull the stick back to full down (off)....let'er spin down and engage "throttle hold"


Hope I helped in some small way......

best of luck to you in Iraq

(in reply to futura)
       Post #: 7

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/24/2005 3:37:40 PM   
futura


 

Posts: 585
Joined: 2/23/2005
From: Mauldin, SC, USA
Status: offline 		BTW - if you TX will allow you to make such adjustments.....

Set up your shogun physically as descibed in the instructions -7 -3 0 3 7 then use your TX to electronically limit the travel of the servo and achive the curves I suggest.

(in reply to futura)
       Post #: 8

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/26/2005 1:14:09 AM   
Mr. Tom



Posts: 9
Joined: 6/11/2003
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Wow Futura - that was a super good response for my problems. I have a Futaba T6XHs transmitter that came with the heli as part of a package deal. I've read that this radio is essentially a "Super 7" transmitter, minus one channel. Anyway, being an Airtronics man for years makes me kind of a newcomer to this radio. It appears to have the programmable features you discuss, but I've got to interpret the owners manual to figure it all out. Hopefully you're suggestions will fix my problem.

By the way, you didn't mention if you were still using the brushed motor or if you had upgraded to a brushless setup?

_____________________________

Mr. Tom

(in reply to futura)
       Post #: 9

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/26/2005 3:32:29 PM   
Skeletor


 

Posts: 146
Joined: 11/20/2003
From: Freeport, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone, especially the set-up info. I have ordered a Zoom and it should be here in a few weeks. The battery I have, as recommended by EvoFlight and the same part number in the manual, is a 1600 mah. It doesnt fit. I called and e-mailed Global and they tell me to "bend the sides". Bull@#$% one of the flyers from Tower calls for a 1400mah so there is the answer. I bought a Z-bender but I'm not going to mess with it, I ordered the up grades from helihobby and they should get here with the up-graded Zoom. I have e-mailed helihobby several times and gotten no response other than the automated one. Does anyone have a direct e-mail address to someone in the tech. dept? Anyway, I hope to be the first American to fly a R/C heli here in the "new Baghdad Iraq". I'm actually a fixed wing R/C pilot but getting fuel shipped here and a good place to fly have forced me into the electric heli side of the hobby. I'm doing alright on the realflight G3, but I'm glad I dont have to pay for each crash, hehehe. Anyone have any opinions on the belt drive vs. the shaft drive? I plan to get the Bell 222 fuse and all the up-grades as my skills improve (that is, if I ever get off the ground) CF frame, cnc, all metal everything, brushless motor ect.

(in reply to Mr. Tom)
       Post #: 10

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/26/2005 10:08:38 PM   
voltron1011


 

Posts: 79
Joined: 6/13/2005
From: , GERMANY
Status: offline 		Wow Futura, nice to still see you on the forums (albeit not the damned DF35).... After reading your last post in the DF35 I wasn't sure I'd see you anymore. I too have taken the Shogun plunge, and oredered everything off of hobbypeople.com (including a new Shogun V2 on backorder). I am tired of the China cheap electronics.

Actually though, my question is are you using the stock brushed motor, or did you go for a brushless setup?

(in reply to futura)
       Post #: 11

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/27/2005 4:54:59 AM   
futura


 

Posts: 585
Joined: 2/23/2005
From: Mauldin, SC, USA
Status: offline 		I bought two shoguns (as I may have mentioned) and I have the brushless motor and ESC but its in Shogun #2. I've got it apart and waiting on cnc parts to replace all the connectors. got a new cnc swash, head, tail gear box....all blue.

As for the shaft vs. belt issue.......I've got 14 battery charges (15 min per) through Shogun #1 now and I have no wear at all on any of my gears (beveled). A couple bouncy landings (didn't add collective fast enough) but that's about it. In my book, WHEN I crash, somethings got to break...I would rather it be a $15 gear or shaft than something more expensive. It's also easier to replace a tail gear than a main gear. Shogun #2 has a metal shaft with blue input/output gears and tailshaft gear.....I don't want to replace the shaft if I can help it. One thing others in my area are finding though is that replacing the input/output gears on the CF shafts is not so straight forward. you may get a second gear to slide on but after that the shaft is too worn to get a tight fit and you end up replacing the shaft and both gears...maybe the steel shaft I got will help. It's personal preference I guess. I'm in a gym all the time so I never will be landing in grass. If your going to ever be possibly landing in grass, get the belt.....that seems to be the biggest reason to go belt. Those tail blades cannot touch anything but air....or else.

All my shogun flying so far is with the stock brushed motor. Plenty of power for me at this point...it climbs fast and higher than I want to go....has plenty to stop the heli when its dropping after an abrupt correction or move....I think its a blade stall but anyway. I have hovering down and controlled decent (collective control) and just this weekend got some controlled peroets down....the ones that didn't send the heli around the gym before I get "tail in" control back. New moves make my hands shake....what a rush.

I was thrilled by the china junk too but got tired of tinkering and not flying....18 battery charges later its on the shelf and now I'm going through perfect preflight checks and simply burnin batteries.....much more fun in my book. Don't get me wrong....shogun #2 is getting plenty of my time....it'l be quite sweet indeed.

lovely little machines.....and I love the look on my boys faces when they start up and are flying. BTW -- took some pics and vids this weekend....I thinkin to post them soon. Its kinda strange believing someone would be interested in seeing them but......pride cometh before a .....hmmm. | :

(in reply to voltron1011)
       Post #: 12

RE: Global EvoFlight Shogun 400 problems... - 6/27/2005 5:04:06 AM