RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah  
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All Forums >> RC Helicopters >> Electric RC Helis >> RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah
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RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/14/2005 10:08:45 PM   
CliffR


 

Posts: 127
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: carle place, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Nice house

(in reply to joshiestevens)
       Post #: 26

RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/14/2005 10:47:49 PM   
bdavison


 

Posts: 3344
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Warner Robins, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Its possible that it could be something to do with the flybar. Are the paddles equal distance from the rotor shaft? Take a ruler and make sure that both paddles are exactly the same distance from the center of the main shaft.

|------------------X------------------|
^-same as------ | this distance---^

| = paddle, and X = main shaft

Also make sure that the paddles are set at 0 pitch.

I didnt see anything in the videos that would indicate its odd performance. There is a slight wobble in the main gear, but not enough to cause what you are experiencing.

Its not normal for it to scoot left that fast, unless its WAY out of trim. It looked almost as if you had full left cyclic in it when it lifted off.

At this point, my best recommendation would be to use the locator service on this website and find a local heli guy to help you out. I think that the problem your experiencing may be a bit much for us to diagnose via the web. Most experienced heli pilots will be happy to help, and they can look the heli over and help you set it up properly.

It looks like everything is way out of trim which can be fixed easily, but what's got me stumped is that oscillation. And whatever is causing that oscillation needs to be corrected first.

Here is a list of other things you should try.

Turn the gain on the gyro down a little bit. The oscillation could be the gyro hunting which is possible, but unlikely. Usually hunting will just cause a tail oscillation.

Make sure that when you rev it up, that the swashplate and rotor disk is level. It should not be tilted in any direction.

With no inputs on the sticks, and the heli held still, the swashplate should remain level and still. It should not oscillate or be tilted in any direction. It should not be moving up or down.

Good luck, I hope you can get it fixed.



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(in reply to joshiestevens)
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RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/14/2005 11:10:15 PM   
joshiestevens


 

Posts: 183
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: UK, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Yes they are both 5.2cm away...

Did you look at the extra videos....

Josh

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       Post #: 28

RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/14/2005 11:27:54 PM   
paedbo


 

Posts: 501
Joined: 2/11/2005
From: Bridgeport, CT, USA
Status: offline 		from one of the last videos you posted it looks like your fly bar is not centered, the video you show of your heli from the top down i can see the bottom right paddle but then the top left one where is it? is it that much longer? they should be exactly equal length from the dead center.


-edit- oops someone beat me to it :-)


in addition to what bdavidson said, it looks like you have a fixed pitch heli, normally the main blades track fine but i have a fp that when i first got it the main blades were way out of tracking, and what i mean by this is, get the helis blades spinning fast but not fast enough for it to lift off, just maybe barely enough to get light on the skids, then from far away!! and i do stress far away lay down on your stomach and look at the blades from the sides, they should look like they are at the same height as they are going around, if you see one blade higher than another then that will cause you serious problems also that can include bad vibrations , oscillation etc.

Just be careful about viewing the blade tracking because your eyes are in line with them and if the heli throws a blade it could hit you in the eye, another way of doing this test is to stand up and put a mirror at your feet at a 45 degree angle.


Also just get it light on the skids, no reason to try to lift it so high in the air, an inch or two off the ground till you can sorta try to get a good hover out of it, and try to figure out what trims are out of adjustment, Dont let it hit anything! if you only lift it 2 inches off the ground and dont hit walls, you wont break anything with the training gear on it.

< Message edited by paedbo -- 6/14/2005 11:42:26 PM >

(in reply to joshiestevens)
       Post #: 29

RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/15/2005 4:58:00 AM   
credence


 

Posts: 2518
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Brampton, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I'll have to agree, while left pull is normal, you've got some SERIOUS left pull happening there.
As for the oscilliation, as I stated in an earlier post, it's been my experience that if you're "seeing" the rotor head going in obvious circles and not remaining still while spinning, it may not be a bent shaft, as imbalance in the blades, or anywhere on the rotorhead, for that matter, will cause the rotor head to "flex" at high speed, thus giving the illusion of a bent shaft. The best way to check to see if the shaft is spinning truly, is to remove the blades and flybar and rev it up, and see what happens. if it's STILL happening, THEN you know you've got an out of whack shaft or rotorhead.

Also, while the training gear may help you with tip overs, it will make your heli extremely difficult to fly. They really only help with learning basic movements while skittering along on the ground, cause once you get airborne, they're nasty .

Incase you're interested, i took a quick vid of my heli in action, which, atleast in design, isn't much different than yours.

Click Me (4 mb)

While I didn't show it here (I wouldve, but my camera batteries died during filming, hence you don't even get to see me land! ), when taking off, my heli will skitter pretty sharply to the left if I dont fight it with right cyclic. But as you can see in this video, if you give it right cyclic while taking off, the heli doesn't move from it's spot.

Also, please ignore the horrific flying here. Trying to work the transmitter with a heavy camera hanging around your chest isnt easy! Though, after fighting with it, I did manage to get it into a steady hover

< Message edited by credence -- 6/15/2005 5:21:54 AM >

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True Northern Hobbies, Inc.

(in reply to paedbo)
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RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/15/2005 11:50:49 AM   
joshiestevens


 

Posts: 183
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: UK, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi thanks for the replies...

What do you mean when you say 'the rotor head going in obvious circles '. If I look at the top of the heli, I can just see everything inside spinning with the shaft like it should be....

Also bdavidson, you said oscilation in the tail... if I only spin the tail motor when the heli is on the ground, it kind of speeds up and slows down, but I dont think it does that at high speeds... Also, If I hold the tail bom and rotate the heli in the opposite direction the tail motor is trying the spin it when its full power, the tail motor speeds up, and if I turn it in the same direction, it slows down...

Josh

< Message edited by joshiestevens -- 6/15/2005 11:58:45 AM >

(in reply to credence)
       Post #: 31

RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/15/2005 12:33:32 PM   
credence


 

Posts: 2518
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Brampton, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Thats because your gyro is compensating for the movement. It's completely normal. Thats what keeps your tail from moving in the air, the gyro will adjust the tail rotor speed as it needs to, to keep the tail steady depending on the movement of the helicopter. Otherwise, while you're in the air, the torque from the main rotor would cause the tail to spin around wildly. From the videos, it doesn't look much like a tail problem, looks like something on your head is seriously off balance. Try taking off your blades and fly bar, and bring your motor up to speed. Watch the rotor head and see if it's wobbling or vibrating of it's it's spinning truly. That's probably your best bet at locating the problem. Start there, if theres no wobble, then add the flybar, make sure everything is straight. Then try again, if theres no wobble, then add your blades, if you've got wobble, then you've isolated the problem down to your blades and those are what need fixing (or your flybar, or wherever you encounter the wobbling).
Trial and error is the only way to work with these things

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Daniel
True Northern Hobbies, Inc.

(in reply to joshiestevens)
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RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/15/2005 1:19:00 PM   
joshiestevens


 

Posts: 183
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: UK, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi, Just recorded a video of the rotor head. It looks perfect to me.....

If there is any more videos you want me to record let me know, as I am using my phone for it and it only takes me a couple of minutes.

Rotor Head Video

Josh

(in reply to credence)
       Post #: 33

RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/15/2005 3:17:09 PM   
joshiestevens


 

Posts: 183
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: UK, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		I balanced the balance bar, and it made no differece. So, I decided to replace the blades AND the swash plate, and it has seemed to have stopped it from oscilating!! yes!! Well, at least I think I have, but I havent taken it sp far up, but it seems to be flying better.

The strange thing is, now the tail is making the nose move towards the left os I had to trim it the opposite way!! And before that, even full trim wouldnt stop it spinning, it was still rotating slowly.... DO you think I need to replace the motor??

Also, when people refer to cyclic movement, are they refering to the rotation from the tail blade, or the banking?

Josh

(in reply to joshiestevens)
       Post #: 34

RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/15/2005 6:01:19 PM   
timothy thompson


 

Posts: 2761
Joined: 6/19/2004
From: saginaw, MI, USA
Status: offline 		josh you sound like a nice kid so im gonna be nice and help you. You have crashed that thing so often its out of trim . Buy a blade cp and get some qualified help!! Have you flown rc fixed wing if not this is going to be a handful for you to learn. i taught myself helis but im a large scale warbird driver and have rc experience.
With the blade they are all test flown so before you power up add some throttle trim and skid it around to get used to it. Do not use training gear it can lead to oscillations. Its the best micro heli out there and its cheap.

call me 989-797-3645 ill see what i CAN DO OVER THE PHONE

Tim

(in reply to joshiestevens)
       Post #: 35

RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/15/2005 6:03:54 PM   
credence


 

Posts: 2518
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Brampton, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Cyclic is for banking.

In terms of your tail, i'd check to see if your gyro, or 4in1 box, or whatever it is that the Jabo uses, check to see if it's got small screw pots that can be turned. Usually, one will be for mix, and one for gain (or just one for gain). One will adjust the mix between rotor speed and tail rotor speed, the other will adjust the sensitivty of the gyro it's self. It's my understanding that these arent seperate and linear, and it's a matter of finding the right combination of both values to get reliable flight.

I don't know all that much about configuring gyros, so maybe someone else can help you with that. It is possible that your tail may be on it's way out, as tail motors are reportedly unreliable. I'd keep messing with your trim first though. I think you'll find that your trim settings on the ground won't be the same for in the air. So set your trims at the default, get your heli into the air and once airborne, check to see which way it's turning. Depending on which way the nose spins, give it a couple clicks of opposite trim, take off again, and keep trying till you get it so it's mostly steady. Also, drift will likely happen, especially when raising and lowering the head speed, and you're going to need to correct the nose in the air once in a awhile (I know i've got to).

_____________________________

Daniel
True Northern Hobbies, Inc.

(in reply to joshiestevens)
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RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/15/2005 6:44:49 PM   
joshiestevens


 

Posts: 183
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: UK, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Thanks Tim, but I am in the UK.

Regards,
Josh

(in reply to credence)
       Post #: 37

RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/15/2005 7:07:30 PM   
swashplate


 

Posts: 153
Joined: 12/11/2003
From: hyde park, VT, USA
Status: offline 		Joshie: The gear video!! BUD YOUR GEAR MEASH IS WHACK!!! The front conical tail shaft gear must have perfect mesh with the main gear, and I think it is TOO LOOSE. slide the shaft collar down while pulling the shaft up, this will tighten the conical gear to the main gear, also slide the boom in a tiny bit farther to the body, this thghtens it to. also if the tail swings out in either direction with max gyro or trim then the control linkages need to be adjusted MECHANICALY and no amount of gyro fidling will help. You need to adjust the tail on a smooth floor and not grass. If the tail cannot over come the torque of the main rotor the control linkage needs to be shorter or the servo horn needs to go forward, if the thrust of the tail is too muchand it spinns with the rotor it needs to be lengthened or the servo horn needs to be taken off and replaced so its neutral is pointing more towards the back. if the tail is drifting swaying wide, turn down the limit, if it is twitching back and forth fast increase the delay.
Good luck!!!

Edit: I see you are Flying a jabo...I mayhave posted this in the wrong thread sorry

< Message edited by swashplate -- 6/15/2005 7:26:41 PM >

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RE: DRIVING ME NUTS! hah - 6/15/2005 7:41:46 PM   
bdavison


 

Posts: 3344
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Warner Robins, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I think his heli has a tail motor, in which case adjusting linkages wont change the tail trim, because there are no linkages. You will have to adjust it via the mixer or the gyro.



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