RE: Tail motors....Any solutions?  
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All Forums >> RC Helicopters >> Electric RC Helis >> RE: Tail motors....Any solutions?
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RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/23/2005 8:51:47 AM   
gazmik


 

Posts: 46
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: cleethorpes, NB, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		what about motors from other r/c stuff?
dragon no fly.....how you getting on with the ducted fan ass, does it fit & how heavy is it?
bdavison...totally the way to go with air blown over the h.s.
raz ...check your pitch,it does make a huge difference

(in reply to raz54)
       Post #: 26

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/23/2005 9:21:40 AM   
jjp735i


 

Posts: 90
Joined: 2/19/2004
From: PitUSA, USA
Status: offline 		I don't have the blade, but I have a hummingbird V3 and the stock tail motor was junk, burned out just like yours. I got a High Authority motor from Century and it's been running for a good 8 months with no signs of wearing out. Not sure if this will fit the blade. Century sells 2 different upgraded tail motors, High Authority and High Performance. I found the High Performace made the tail heavy. These motors also don't have the fine contact wires inside, but use 2 small brushes, at least they look like brushes as the contacts.

Good luck.
jjp

(in reply to bdavison)
       Post #: 27

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/23/2005 4:46:04 PM   
scottyfusion


 

Posts: 136
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: milford, MI, USA
Status: offline 		hi guys! the tail motor blows!! i found this out during flight and it didnt end very good! the good news is you can run a brushless in the tail pretty easy.

heres the deal. the 4 in 1 can be seperated into a receiver and a mixer just unscrew the 4 screws and it splits apart. you will now see the pins for channels 3 and 4 are coming out the back and plugging into the mixer box. these are the main motor and tail motor channels. now, if you heat the pins with a soldering iron you can push them thrue to the other side (they will now be on the same side as the rest of the chanels, the side you see when its all closed up) now you can plug a small (castle creations) 10 amp brushless speedo into the tail motor chanel and run a small feigao brushless tail mtor (helli hobby.com). its the cats a**!!! barly gets warm! mine has been going strong for countlees flights.
you will need to run a li-po. i use a thunder power 3 cell 900 mah and get about 15 min flights. just be carful not to over discharge your lipo. the 4in1 mixer doesnt have a low voltage cut off so you just have to be carfull.

anyways i hope this helps! let me know if this is confusing. its actually very easy and only cost me $85 minus the lipo. worth every penny!!

i mean i can cut grass with my tail rotor and it doesnt even phase it!

good luck, Scotty

< Message edited by scottyfusion -- 6/23/2005 5:09:05 PM >

_____________________________

too many hobbys such little time!!

(in reply to jjp735i)
       Post #: 28

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/23/2005 7:13:59 PM   
root729


 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/7/2005
From: VictoriaGozo, MALTA
Status: offline 		That sounds like the way to go, can you maybe send some pics if you have them of the 4 in 1? I have an esky HB 2 CP but I think it is the same as the blade but I am not sure about the 4 in 1?? Thanks Tony.

(in reply to scottyfusion)
       Post #: 29

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/23/2005 8:23:13 PM   
scottyfusion


 

Posts: 136
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: milford, MI, USA
Status: offline 		tony the hb and the blade are idenical! i have a hb but about half of it is blade parts. dont have my digital cam right now but will post some pics when i can. i also failed to mention that you have to put a small gyro on there. i use the cheap gws one its only like $30 or so.
you can just split the 4 in 1 apart...plug it in....and plug a servo in on channel 3 or 4 to figure out wich one is the tail. if i remember correctly its channel 4 ( my memory has been sacreficed to the party gods!!! ahhh high school.) anyways; just push those three pins thrue to the other side of the circut board, make sure theres no shorts in the solder and your golden!! put it back together. youll have to cut the little peice of plastic off that covers the channel 4 pins. then you can plug in your gyro to it, your speedo to the gyro, and your motor to the speedo.

in reality all the 4 in 1 is is a basic 6 cannel receiver by itself. then they pluged it into a box (the other half that you split off) that has two speedos and a mixer/ gyro. so your just bypassing one speedo ( the tail speedo) and the gyro/mixer.

this thing flys like a dream after this mod! the seperat gyro controls are heaven sent. you can realy get this bird pretty stable. and burning out the tail motor..........forget about it!!!!! you'll burn up your main motor and replace the whole bird before you burn this thing up. these feigao motors are pretty much imortal. BTW. i got the long can brushless but i think the short can will probably be better for wight reasons.

good luck, Scotty

_____________________________

too many hobbys such little time!!

(in reply to root729)
       Post #: 30

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/23/2005 9:20:53 PM   
root729


 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/7/2005
From: VictoriaGozo, MALTA
Status: offline 		So is it a size 20 brushless I need? What about the rpm and amps?? any ideas? Many thanks for the info. Its going to take me a while to really understand what I need and need to do.

Tony.

(in reply to scottyfusion)
       Post #: 31

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/23/2005 9:24:57 PM   
root729


 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/7/2005
From: VictoriaGozo, MALTA
Status: offline 		ok - so maybe the link to the brushless site was not your making and may have thrown me off a tad! can you advise me on what and where to get for my esky/blade/twister cp? I am in the uk but dont mind shipping from anywhere if it gets this thing in the air !

Cheers
Tony.

(in reply to root729)
       Post #: 32

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/23/2005 9:48:15 PM   
scottyfusion


 

Posts: 136
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: milford, MI, USA
Status: offline 		tony go to heli hobby. com. in the motors area they have a small gold feigao motors. you need one. in the electric speedo area you need a castle creation phonix 10 amp. and a small gws gyro or comparible.

_____________________________

too many hobbys such little time!!

(in reply to root729)
       Post #: 33

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/23/2005 10:00:16 PM   
root729


 

Posts: 9
Joined: 6/7/2005
From: VictoriaGozo, MALTA
Status: offline 		what about the option of building a BL otor out of the kits at gobrushless.com?? looks like someting i could do and the price is real low?? what do you think??

Many thanks again, i will keep you up to date with it .

Tony.

(in reply to scottyfusion)
       Post #: 34

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/24/2005 2:17:26 AM   
dragon_no_fly


 

Posts: 140
Joined: 5/29/2005
From: , USA
Status: offline 		scottyfusion, excellent work!!!!! This was THE post I have been waiting for. Today, I sent a request over to like90.com asking
them some questions about the Feigao brushless tail motor, Castle Creations ESC and a Telebee heading hold gyro. I am
personally at the point of giving up on brushed tail motor setups even though I can BARELY squeeze 80 flights off of one,
that one being a Colco Thunderbird II tail motor with a TREC ESC/mixer high frequency controller controlling it. At flight
number 70, I took the Colco Thunderbird II brushed D/C tail motor apart and was displeased to find a fine graphite like powder
scattered throughout the motor cap while the two brush contacts/pads were GONE, they had been worn down to NOTHING and the
only thing that was making electrical contact with the commutator was the brush springs or whatever you call them. I chose the
Colco tail motors, because I have inspected the brushes on a few "stock" tail motors and have found them to be SUPERIOR to most
other ones that I have had a chance to work with, however, I am sure that there are better ones available. 80 flights at 9 minutes
of runtime is 720 minutes on the motor or 12 hours of continous operation before the motor's brushes are DESTROYED. Again,
this is just my opinion, but money spent on cheaply constructed, overly worked, D/C brushed tail motors is like taking a $10 bill,
lighting it on fire and then tossing this out of your window while driving on the freeway; that is, it is money spent and lost with
no real capability or equity added to your r/c helicopter overtime. In fact, I would go so far as to instruct any newbie to STAY
AWAY from stock brushed tail motor micro electric helicopter kits. scottyfusion, PLEASE, when you get a chance, send us a digital
picture of your mod if you want.

(in reply to root729)
       Post #: 35

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/24/2005 2:39:01 AM   
dragon_no_fly


 

Posts: 140
Joined: 5/29/2005
From: , USA
Status: offline 		gazmik and to others, here is my take on the GWS(Electric Ducted Fan) tail setup.........STAY AWAY from IT!
I initially was flying my DragonFly(no, not a Blade, even though I am dying to get one and will if brushless will
do the job) with a GWS "high authority" tail motor, a GWS motor mount/fin and a 4530 prop. Here's the results,
stupid motor DIED after a few runs, smoked, stalled and almost FRIED my ESC. Current draw was HIGHER,
weight was up, runtime was down, power was GOOD with the DD(Direct Drive). After the tail motor burned
out(sound familiar to anyone), I took it part of course to inspect the damage, sure enough one of the brush
pads(brushes) that RUB agaisnt the commutator had a "shard" missing from it like when a crystal has a shard
taken from it such that it was no longer "RUBBING" agaisnt the commutator. The motor also had
debris in it. Now, again, I have NOT flown the EDF on my heli, but I have read a good deal of negative posts
concerning it, there seems to be three basic complaints with it, the first one being WEIGHT and C/G issues,
the seond complaint is the shattery, cheaply made, brittle plastic, I am going to crack/break if you smack me
not too hard(hint hint, minor crash, we all do them) and reduced runtimes due to increased current draw.
I looked on GWS's site and was dipleased to find that the EDF-40 and EDF-40H("H" for "hi-voltage" used
the same CRAP/SUCK motor that was driving my DD tail initially. The worst part being that these motors
are around $10 a piece.......no thanks! I have toyed with the idea of putting another DD tail setup on my heli
using a Mabuchi hi-voltage(rated at up to 12 volts) 280 sized brushed motor. With a correct TREC setup and
due to its high tail operating frequency of 78.125 KHz, that motor would last a long time, however, there are
three nagging technical problems that cannot be ignored, these being WEIGHT, C/G issues and CURRENT draw.
I looked at the technical specs of the motor on Mabuchi's site and was displeased at its weight and current draw
which was a 100+% increase over the GWS "high authority" tail motor's draw.......this will lead to significantly
reduced flight performance, not to mention flight times being reduced.










(in reply to dragon_no_fly)
       Post #: 36

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/24/2005 3:37:20 AM   
scottyfusion


 

Posts: 136
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: milford, MI, USA
Status: offline 		i will post some pics tomorrow. this is the salution to tail motor problems. some may not want to go this route for cost reasons, but did any of us realy think we would get a perfectly wonderful bird for $200? of course not. it needs mods just like everything else.

_____________________________

too many hobbys such little time!!

(in reply to dragon_no_fly)
       Post #: 37

RE: Tail motors....Any solutions? - 6/24/2005 5:06:36 AM   
jctpro



Posts: 85
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Andover, MA, USA
Status: offline 		I tried this and ran into problems. I pushed the pins through, plugged in a servo for testing in channel 4 and the radio works fine but the main motor will not turn on. Any ideas? Channel 3 still passes through to the addon board and channel 4 does not since the pins are now coming out the other side.

(in reply to scottyfusion)