RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14  
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RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/9/2005 6:58:47 PM   
50%plane



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quote:

but I am sure you will see the same tactics once the 23011X superduperdoublelooper comes out.
I hope I won't see them then. If so, then I will have to switch to Airtronics or Hitec.

< Message edited by woops -- 7/9/2005 6:59:57 PM >

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Christopher A. Todd AMA# 637636

(in reply to budgetdude)
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RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/11/2005 10:41:15 AM   
Ratt Belly



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quote:

ORIGINAL: woops

quote:

but I am sure you will see the same tactics once the 23011X superduperdoublelooper comes out.
I hope I won't see them then. If so, then I will have to switch to Airtronics or Hitec.


The highly suggestable consumer is exactly the reason that advertisements are presented.

You may want to use your head, and not your heart when making purchases of a technical nature.

Just some food for thought, nothing personal intended.

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Jason

(in reply to 50%plane)
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RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/11/2005 11:47:12 AM   
50%plane



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From: x, , USA
Status: offline 		When there are a few companies making similar in quality products, I don't need to be told misstruths( in this case not all-out lies, but distorted truths that in this context are lies).
When I "need" to be told how the 14MZ isn't very good compared to the 10X, (when they obviously aren't even in the same league[the 14MZ being of a higher class]) I don't want to buy it. That obviously raises a question in my mind about if the 10X isn't having a lot of problems(not just selling).I also don't want to be tied with a company who puts out(well I'll just say it) LIES about there"competition".
Mike, You had me there. I was about to buy some JR servos as well as give them a harder look next time I needed to buy a radio. Because of this add, JR lost a potential customer. Just some friendly advise. If you want to keep most of your sales, fire that marketing guy and stop running these types of adds. Mike, a good idea of an add that will get my dollar is the one you have with the guy with his F90 talking about Fred who sold him a JR radio. If you correct this problem, I might start looking into JR again.

(a note to Futaba. If you run these types of adds also, I will toss my 9C into the nearest trash can.)

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Christopher A. Todd AMA# 637636

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       Post #: 53

RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/11/2005 9:50:50 PM   
Doug Cronkhite


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: woops

When there are a few companies making similar in quality products, I don't need to be told misstruths( in this case not all-out lies, but distorted truths that in this context are lies).
When I "need" to be told how the 14MZ isn't very good compared to the 10X, (when they obviously aren't even in the same league[the 14MZ being of a higher class]) I don't want to buy it. That obviously raises a question in my mind about if the 10X isn't having a lot of problems(not just selling).I also don't want to be tied with a company who puts out(well I'll just say it) LIES about there"competition".
Mike, You had me there. I was about to buy some JR servos as well as give them a harder look next time I needed to buy a radio. Because of this add, JR lost a potential customer. Just some friendly advise. If you want to keep most of your sales, fire that marketing guy and stop running these types of adds. Mike, a good idea of an add that will get my dollar is the one you have with the guy with his F90 talking about Fred who sold him a JR radio. If you correct this problem, I might start looking into JR again.

(a note to Futaba. If you run these types of adds also, I will toss my 9C into the nearest trash can.)


Exactly what lies are told in those ads?

There is nothing non-factual in the ad posted previously in this thread.

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Doug Cronkhite

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RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/11/2005 10:51:42 PM   
50%plane



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quote:

First paragraph,
JR is working on a glitzy radio according to MMcConville's earlier post. What would JR users say if they got that radio and Futaba alledged that the 9Z was better because it had proven reliability over this new JR. When a new radio comes out, a potential buyer has to decide if it's for them. When the 10X came out it was a glitzy radio, Should Futaba have run a similar add?

Second paragraph, RC jets usually need as many channels as they can get. For many years the 10X had the most channels. Now that Multiplex came out with a 12 channel, many jet pilots switched from JR to it. Now that Futaba has 14, many are starting to use it. The fact that 85%(according to the add) use the 10X is not an acid test. If Futaba came out with a similar add in 2 years that stated that 95% of jet pilots use the 14MX, would JR think that funny? (especially if Futaba claimed that that was a real acid test)

Third paragraph,
The only manuel that I've seen for a radio at the field is a 10X that is in the back of a trailer. I brought the manuel to my 9C to the field the first time I used it, but didn't need the manuel.

Fourth paragraph,
The add states, "And finally, while price is rarely the deciding factor when considering a pro-class radio, the 10 X is an out-and-out bargain. So if flying's what you intend to do with your pro-class radio, check out the PCM10X at your dealer's now." Jr is alledging that if you don't use a 10X you don't fly. That would include all Futaba, other top-end JR, Hitec, Multiplex, Airtronics, (and any that I forgot) top end radios. The 14MX has twice the features of the 10X and cost almost twice as much. My 9C has half the features as the 10X, but cost nearly 33% of the 10X.


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Model Airplanes don't kill people. Chuck Norris kills people.
Christopher A. Todd AMA# 637636

(in reply to Doug Cronkhite)
       Post #: 55

RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/11/2005 11:32:38 PM   
Ratt Belly



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From: Buffalo, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Woops-no where in your previous post do you dispute any one fact presented by JR.

What fact, EXACTLY, do you take exception to?

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Jason

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RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/11/2005 11:34:12 PM   
MMcConville


 

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Status: offline 		I think this thread is getting a little out of hand guys. Woops I'm sorry of the new 10X ad struck a nerve with you. However I dont think anything in the add misrepresented any truths. All but the stated fact that 85% of the jet market uses the 10X is presented as an arguement to use the 10X. Nothing but that statement is presented as a fact. You may agree or disagree with the arguement, but no facts are misstated.

As for the statement that 85% of the jet market uses the 10X, to be perfectly blunt, that is a conservative claim. Having just attended one of the larger jet fly-ins in the midwest a few weeks ago, I can now personally attest to what I've heard for years, it is a market dominated by JR. We track radio use at all major events, so that isnt an embellishment or an opinion, thats is a fact.

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Mike McConville
Horizon Hobby

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 57

RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/12/2005 2:13:53 AM   
50%plane



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Status: offline 		Thanks Mike. I knew that you would give it a fair shake, but I would have to dissagree with you on the jet market thing. I know because I've been told by the jet pilots that I know that they used the 10X only because they needed as many channels as possible. In 3 years I doubt that 50% of jet pilots will still be flying a 10X because with a 12 channel and a 14 channel on the market many will have switched. If JR brings out a 16X then you could probably say that 90% of all jet pilots fly JR. That's the way the jet market, as I understand it, works. Second, I'm not disputing your number, I'm disputing that that number is a real acid test.

I'm most annoyed by the fact that JR, in this add, alleges that if you don't have a 10X you don't fly. I don't appreciate that. I am probably taking that the wrong way, but for me, that is a reason I am having second thoughts about using any JR in any of my planes. I don't like that kind of marketing. I'll give you another example of bad marketing, During the '04 election, I didn't like the fact that Kerry said that Bush lied to America to go to war for oil. I don't have the facts there, but I didn't appreciate that being said while we have wonderful servicemen/women fighting for America in Iraq and Afghanistan. That kind of statement makes me wonder about Kerry's judgement. I don't care if it is the truth or not. It was, in my opinion, wrong. Everything else, whether I agree or dissagree, was on the table. That's the same with this JR add. I don't want to get into politics here. I'm tired of the endless debate about which is better, Futaba or JR. As I stated earlier, I like the ads that say how good a product is, like the one aforementioned, I also go for the ones that say that they have a feature that no one else has. I hope you understand my point of view here. I hope to meet you some day, and see you fly, no matter what radio you fly.


Woops

Edited sentance structure.

< Message edited by woops -- 7/12/2005 11:28:45 AM >

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Christopher A. Todd AMA# 637636

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RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/12/2005 8:16:02 AM   
Bob101


 

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Status: offline 		Way to dispute fact with opion....

"In 3 years I doubt that 50% of jet pilots will still be flying a 10X because with a 12 channel and a 14 channel on the market many will have switched. If JR brings out a 16X then you could probably say that 90% of all jet pilots fly JR. That's the way the jet market, as I understand it, works. Second, I'm not disputing your number, I'm disputing that that number is a real acid test."


If's and but's....in 3 years...did you not take a debate oriented class in high school or college?

FACT - RIGHT NOW go to a jet rally. I went to the big one in Tuscon last year. Like Mike stated - nearly all of the participants used JR. That was a fact. Know what else - Multiplex makes a 12 channel radio - know how many I saw there - NONE. Know how many jet fliers would fly JR10X for the one extra channel if it wasn't a top of line quality radio capable of getting the job done - NONE.

You can't base ads on what "might" happen in 3 years - no offense to you personally - but that's got to be one of the dumbest arguments I've seen made publicly in a long time.

Give up on this one. It was a funny as hell ad - that was full of facts. Considering you have Futaba in your sig...gee I wonder (I also fly Futaba but can spot a good ad when I see it).

If you want to "dig up facts" how about how many real channels the 14MZ has. I fly Futaba and I thought it was the dumbest thing that the radio only has 12 proptional channels.

< Message edited by Bob101 -- 7/12/2005 8:18:28 AM >

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 59

RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/12/2005 11:25:18 AM   
50%plane



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Status: offline 		The reason I have Futaba in my signature is, if you read it, They donated a lot of stuff to the 21'st annual Ray Gordon Jumbo Fly-in. I would have put JR in it if they donated also.

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Model Airplanes don't kill people. Chuck Norris kills people.
Christopher A. Todd AMA# 637636

(in reply to Bob101)
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RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/12/2005 12:13:28 PM   
wryman


 

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Status: offline 		Honestly, Chris (AKA Woops) with you on here making comments bashing JR equipment I'm pretty sure this is not helping the club's chances for ever getting anything from JR or Horizon. I think you could spend more time rebuilding/building and less time pissing people off for no reason. I dont know if you have ever even held a JR radio with your own hands. That's like me saying that the new Ford F150 is trash when I've have never rode in or driven one, personally I love my Avalanche but declaring the F150 garbage or saying their ads are misleading about the "longest lasting" trucks would be purely a uninformed opinion.

(in reply to 50%plane)
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RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/12/2005 2:31:18 PM   
MMcConville


 

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From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Guess I have to disagree with the opinion that the jet market will change because there are other radios with more channels available. True, the jet and scale markets do want/need more channesl, but the reasoning I get from the vast majority of jet pilots for flying JR isnt the fact that there was 1 more channel than the competition, it was the reliability of the equipment.
Another big influence in the jet market is Bob Violett and his BVM team. Bob is a huge advocate of JR equipment and isnt likely going to change his opinions.
Never-thge-less, its a true statement about the past and present situation. It would be wrong to make any claim about the future and it doesnt do that.

On the other issue in the ad, I believe you completely missed the point of that statement. Is doesnt imply that if you dont fly JR then you don fly. Its a tounge in cheek statement that implies that if you want to do someting like isten to tunes on your transmitter, then you might be 'justified' in spending the extra money on a different radio, but if you want to fly, the 10X does everything you need.

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Mike McConville
Horizon Hobby

(in reply to 50%plane)
       Post #: 62

RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/12/2005 5:12:12 PM   
50%plane



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Status: offline 		Thanks for hearing my thoughts Mike.

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Model Airplanes don't kill people. Chuck Norris kills people.
Christopher A. Todd AMA# 637636

(in reply to MMcConville)
       Post #: 63

RE: JR's Answer to Futaba MZ14 - 7/12/2005 10:22:27 PM   
rryman


 

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Quote from Woops: "......a note to Futaba. If you run these types of adds also, I will toss my 9C into the nearest trash can."

All I can say to your above statement, Mr. Woops, is that your radio would be in good company, because f