RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (Full Version)

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bookboy22 -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/15/2005 3:40:31 PM)

Hi tr21triton,

I have never built a kit or installed a servo. I believe the manual shows the steps involved, but can you explain what connection on the receiver you plugged the extra flap servo into,and how do you control the flaps on on the radio?

Thanks



rocknrube -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/15/2005 3:52:59 PM)

Thats funny...I just finished installing my flap servo now! It works great! Basically, you just gotta cut the Ultra-cote near the root or fuselage. You can feel it if you run your finger or near the center of the two wing halves. Cut open the material and drill a coupla holes with the servo in place, put four brass eyelets in each hole and screw in four screws. Attach the push rod after bending it into a Z-bend so that it lines up nicely with the servo arm. Bring the servo wire up through the hole where the ailerons come through and stick it in the receiver (Gear Slot) inside the fuselage. When you wish to use the flaps simply flick the right top hand switch to lower your flaps and flick switch the other way to raise the flaps!



olstoney -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/15/2005 4:03:04 PM)

That's why I switched out the JR receiver for one of my Hitec's to be able to use my Hitec transmitter. My flap control is now totally proportional from 0-22 degrees or anywhere in between and have both high and low rates programmed into the radio. I also expoxied everything together on the tail feathers and the belly scoop to the wing. Now as soon as the new prop drive assembly arrives the front can be reassembled and the plane will be ready for final balancing. I'll be in the air the day afterwards weather permitting. In the meantime I'll put a few runs on the engine over the weekend and get everything there adjusted.. Pretty soon we will see what this puppy can do[:D].



SeattleFlyer -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/15/2005 5:32:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Campbell

SeattleFlyer,

UltraCote needs 350 degrees or more to shrink fully. You won't get that from any personal hair dryer. One such WILL shrink the material somewhat, but it will bubble/sag again when it gets out in the sun. You need high heat to keep it down.

OTOH, jlank is correct in that commercial heat guns are TOO hot; as in melting the material or even scorching the underlying balsa. Your best bet is to buy a tool designed for the job. If you simply won't do that, for whatever reason, use a household iron on high setting, and place a thin cloth over the material before ironing.



Thanks for the additional info. I think I'll follow your advice and order a hobby-specific heat gun. Better safe than sorry. ;)

This morning I started assembling my airplane. I removed the muffler and engine cowel and thread-locked the engine mount nuts. I went ahead and removed the baffle from the muffler and thread-locked the long muffler screw and nut that holds the two halves of the muffler together. I then put the cowel back on and thread locked the muffler screws when re-installing the muffler to the engine. I installed the prop and spinner and the little pipe detailing. I then installed the rear fin and thread-locked those nuts as well. I then tightened the control horn screws a bit in the rear as they were a little loose and adjusted the clevises so that the rear control surfaces are level with the radio on with the trim set in the center. The radio so far appears to be working perfectly. All I really have left now is to assemble the wing halves, install the landing gear, check that the servo screws are tight, and install the wing which I'll do tomorrow morning. So far everything is coming together great! :D



olstoney -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/15/2005 6:34:45 PM)

Sounds like you are approaching this in the right way, good job[:D]. It might behoove you due to the care that you are taking with the assembly of your model to do the following. Back out any of the wood screws that are installed. Put two or three drops of thin CA into the screw holes, no more. When the CA has dried then reinstall the wood screws you will find that they are somewhat tighter upon reinstallation. Make sure that the CA has dried or you may permanently install the screws. Several of the wood screws on my model were stripped (Where is the QC here?). Fortunately I know how to fix such things and I am thouroghly convinced that this model was built at 4:30PM on Friday when the quitting whistle blew.

There were just too many problems with this particular model that I had to fix. The good part was I knew how, but I should not have had to do all of this. Maybe I should have complained more and taken photographs of all this crap. I just feel sorry for some newbie that does not have these skills. If he or she gets one like I did, you had better get on the phone to Horizon immediately. I am still waiting for my dealer to get me a new cowl as this one was cracked out of the box. The cowl mounting screws were drilled improperly and only caught part of the firewall joint and chipped the rest out. I almost had to talk the Horizon customer service rep into replacing my plastic droops at N/C. I had to remove those in order to get the wrinkles out of the covering. I had a hell of a problem getting the tape residue off both the wing and droops and ruined one of the droops doing so. The Horizon rep did not know what kind of tape was used to affix the droops, so SOLD me a roll of Dubro hinge tape that quote "ought to work".

That being said, if this plane looses a droop and causes an unexpected roll and winds up being planted into the ground I'll have the documention and sales receipt to show what I was told to use. I could kinda go on and on here, but in all fairness to those of you who received good models I won't[&o]. I'll post a pic later on of the Mustang when it is finished sitting next to the cowl of my Edge. That maybe should tell somebody something.



Casedit -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/15/2005 6:54:33 PM)

olstoney,

you're scaring me [:-] !!

i've yet to maiden, i've been messing around having fun weathering it - looks like I need to rip it apart and take a look at the quality of the build

Better now than never having the chance

Casedit



SeattleFlyer -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/15/2005 7:13:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: olstoney

Sounds like you are approaching this in the right way, good job[:D]. It might behoove you due to the care that you are taking with the assembly of your model to do the following. Back out any of the wood screws that are installed. Put two or three drops of thin CA into the screw holes, no more. When the CA has dried then reinstall the wood screws you will find that they are somewhat tighter upon reinstallation. Make sure that the CA has dried or you may permanently install the screws. Several of the wood screws on my model were stripped (Where is the QC here?). Fortunately I know how to fix such things and I am thouroghly convinced that this model was built at 4:30PM on Friday when the quitting whistle blew.



Thanks for the CA tip. I'll add that to my list of "additional things to do before flying that are not found in the manual". :) I agree with you that I think if a newby just followed the instructions and flew the plane as is, bad things are bound to happen due to the lack of tightness or thread-locking on screws and nuts and so on. However, I think people with any sort of prior R/C knowledge know better, and whoever the instructor is for the newby ought to no better as well. But it would have been nice if Hangar-9 had either done these things during assembly, or at least included them in the instructions. I'd rather know what to do to do it right instead of just the bare minimum to get the plane in the air. So far though everything in my plane seems to be lining up correctly and so on and nothing came damaged. Sorry to hear you haven't had the same experience. [:o] I also had no trouble getting the radio hooked up my computer and working with the simulation software - I just plugged it in to the COM port and fired up the software and it worked like a champ.



olstoney -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/15/2005 7:17:13 PM)

The actual build itself looks fairly straight forward. I have not found anything loose in the structure yet. Just stuff like badly wrinked covering and that is to be somewhat expected, but not to this degree. Firewall was not fuel proofed, I had to Dremel out the belly pan as the heads of the nylon screws would not pass through. The servo case screws and servo screws themselves were rusted. All kinds of dirt and wood chips inside of the canopy that I removed with Windex on a paper towl and a pair of long forceps and the other aforementioned difficulties. I decided to just go ahead and fix this stuff as I hate when someone has my money already and then I have to wait longer and then return something at my expense. Everything has been repaired I am just waiting for the parts to arrive from Horizon and the replacement cowl from the dealer. We'll see how long that takes before I get to fly this puppy. I just feel bad for the newbie that does not have alternatives like I do. I purchased this plane to actually fill a gap for awhile, see how appropriate it really is for training and then to donate the plane to my club if found in our opinions to be suitable. I made some modifications to suit the purposes such as changing the receiver and making the flaps proportional. Most students here show up with Futaba or Hitec radios as they have been more affordable. Please do not misunderstand me here as JR makes fine equipment and I do own some. With a simple receiver crystal change this plane can fly on any Futaba or Hitec radio transmitter. This was the point as in 10 minutes different folks can fly this on different channels. I'll know more in as soon as the needed parts arrive and this can be flight tested.



SeattleFlyer -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/15/2005 7:17:37 PM)

..and being a newby to R/C planes, I'm going to take my plane to the local R/C club meeting at the end of the month and have them look over everything before it is ever taken out to the field in the first place. I figure that maybe they'll catch something I over-looked or just doesn't seem quite right. I've already gotten a lot of tips from this forum so again, thanks to everyone. [:D]



Steve Campbell -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/15/2005 7:23:57 PM)

SeattleFlyer,

You will be MUCH better served by an iron as opposed to a heat gun. The iron allows you to precisely control the amount of heat applied and, more importantly, WHERE it is applied. Most of the "tightening" chores needed on a film-covered structure are the result of hurried/sloppy lay-down during initial covering, and/or not enough heat used when the initial shrink is done.

What you will find as you use your new model is that seams and edges will work loose. A heat gun is worse than useless for this chore. You need to be able to apply heat in a very narrow area for this particular sort of task. Using a heat gun for it would be like going after an individual wasp with a shotgun.

If you become interested in building a kit, you'll need the iron to cover it. I have a heat gun, and haven't used it in years on a model. I DO use it to soften the 3M spray glue on the strips of sandpaper on my aluminum sanding blocks when its time to change them out. I also have three different irons, each for a different task. I use them a lot.

Get an iron...[;)]



SeattleFlyer -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/15/2005 7:36:07 PM)

Sounds like good advice. One question - do I need to poke a small pin-hole in a bubble before applying the iron so that the air inside has somewhere to escape to as the covering shrinks? Thanks in advance...



Casedit -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/16/2005 2:54:49 AM)

Has anyone installed the MPI charger/switch yet? I got mine in the mail and it looks a lot larger than the factory switch, i'd hate to start cutting the balsa to make room...



Spectere -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/16/2005 12:54:22 PM)

Casedit, I installed mine the other night. It is larger than the hole! I had to cut the hole out to make room. The only thing I'll warn you about is the hole (if cut centered on the existing switch location) will butt up against the wall the the elevator control linkage goes through. I had to file the back plate of the switch (the one that holds the nuts in place) down so it would fit correctly. It will fit, but it is a tight one! Good luck!



Casedit -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/16/2005 1:15:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spectere

Casedit, I installed mine the other night. It is larger than the hole! I had to cut the hole out to make room. The only thing I'll warn you about is the hole (if cut centered on the existing switch location) will butt up against the wall the the elevator control linkage goes through. I had to file the back plate of the switch (the one that holds the nuts in place) down so it would fit correctly. It will fit, but it is a tight one! Good luck!



Yeah, i figured it would be some work but looks like more than I thought. I think i'd be better off not attempting this and going with just a separate charger jack on the opposite side in the precut switch location... maybe something like this will work http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE965&P=ML



Steve Campbell -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/16/2005 1:23:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeattleFlyer

Sounds like good advice. One question - do I need to poke a small pin-hole in a bubble before applying the iron so that the air inside has somewhere to escape to as the covering shrinks? Thanks in advance...



Sometimes. A lot depends on the size of the bubble and the structure underneath. For example, a small bubble on a flat or slightly curved area will generally tighten up without being vented (poking the hole). Larger bubbles, especially ones on compound curves, can need several vent holes poked in them.

Keep in mind we're talking about UltraCote here, which, IMO, is one heck of a lot more user-friendly than MonoKote. Get a wrinkle in U-Cote, and you have a shot at getting it out. Get a wrinkle in MonoKote, and its there forever.



Steve Campbell -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/16/2005 1:58:11 PM)

olstoney,

I'm watching your "mods" with great interest. #2 grandson is beginning to show an interest, and seeing as my trusty old LT-40 is about worn out, I'll be in the market for another primary trainer for him. This concept intrigues the heck out of me; and from what I've gathered so far, this airplane will do nicely as a primary trainer with buddy box support. Hopefully, by the time he's ready to begin his training, Horizon will offer this thing sans radio and engine...

I'm particularly interested in the aspect of what improvements you, as an experienced modeler, are making as you go. We all have our way of doing things, but your insights into what needs to be "fixed" have been rather revealing so far. Keep 'em coming.

BTW, I passed on the WH Edge in favor of the H9 Extra. I'll be placing the order for the ancillary goodies today. Man; I thought helicopters were expensive...[&o]



olstoney -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/16/2005 9:24:21 PM)

Steve,
Thank you for the kindnesses. Actually IMHO there is something to be gained even for a new pilot to have a radio that has dual rate and expo capabilities. You guys with some experience know as you've been there that many new fliers have a tendency to over control. This is especially apparent when low on a landing approach when the knees are shaking. Feeding a slight amount of expo into the transmitter can help with that tendency and in turn breeds confidence in the new pilot. Some may disagree, but I have seen the results and it seems to work for me. My Mustang is finished other that setting up the throws on the control surfaces. It seems that I have either misplaced or lent out my Accuthrow. Doesn't matter anyways as the needed parts from Horizon have not arrived yet. Having said that, if #2 grandson is interested I have a nice 5 channel JR transmitter, receiver and a couple of servos all NIB[:D].

Also, make sure that you read the posts in the H-9 Extra 260 threads. Quite a bit of information on needed mods for the airframe. I really like the looks of the plane, but did not feel that the wing was large enough for a DA50. I do business with Troy Built Models and Gene is a great guy to do business with and carries the H-9 Extra 260 and the PA Edge 540T. As I am not into 3D, I chose the Precision Aerobatics Edge 540T for the lightness of the airframe when DA 50 equipped. A few RCU members that I have spoken to say that the Extra 260 is a killer with a lightweight 40cc engine. Good luck with yours.



Steve Campbell -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/16/2005 11:52:28 PM)

Thanks, but I've got scads of radio gear, and a new 7C... All Futaba.[;)] All I need is an airframe. If Horizon persists in forcing the Evolution engine and JR equipment upon buyers of this model, I'll just get the kid an Eagle II or another LT-40.

Agreed that the 27% Extra is a bit small for a 50cc gasser; which is why I'm putting an OS 1.60 in mine.[:D] I have printed out all 60 pages of that thread; its a stack of paper several inches high. I've gone through it and culled the chit-chat BS out and high-lighted the pertinent stuff.

I should have that bad boy ready just in time for when the weather breaks and starts getting cool.



SeattleFlyer -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/17/2005 1:28:15 AM)

Welp, I ran into my first snag this morning. I disassembled the wheels so that I could thread-lock the screws in the wheel collars but I ended up stripping one of them out when I went to put the collars back on. Doh! [8|] Ah well. A quick trip to the hobby store, $1.50 in my pocket, and some additional time spent will quickly cure the problem. I called Horizon and they suggested using Dubro 5/32" collars which my local shop stocks. I can pick up a covering iron while I'm there as well to use to de-bubble the plane. Still wondering if I need to poke a small pin-hole in a bubble before ironing so that the air inside the bubble has somewhere to escape too (say on the fuse where the covering is applied over solid wood)...?

The good news is that I got the wing halves put together, the flaps all set up, the landing gear installed, and I had no problems getting the wing to fit snuggly into the fuse as others had said was too tight. Mine was a bit tight, but fit. [:D]



wingride47 -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/17/2005 5:10:55 AM)

ol stoney, you said you changed out your receiver did you change out your servos too. I have a new 7c that i would love to use with this plane and if all i have to do is change recievers i will in a hurry. Will jr servos work with a futaba receiver what would i have to do to make it work?



olstoney -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/17/2005 9:11:16 AM)

wingride47,
I changed the servos in the fusalage to Hitec 425BB as I have some spares, I retained the JR servos in the wing panels and for the flaps that are sized for the JR sized servos. It would have required more work in the way of sanding to clearance those servo bays to fit them for the 425BB servos. I do not believe that the JR servo leads will plug into the Futaba receiver. Hitec/JR and Airtronics use the same connector, the Futaba is different. Sorry I really have no experience with Futaba gear maybe Steve could help you more there. On the Hitec PPM receivers the leads plug in from the top. On the QPCM receiver the leads plug in from the front like the JR. I used the QPCM receiver so there was no interference with the factory plywood retainer. Both of the Hitec receivers are both 8 channel and are physically larger than the factory installed receiver. If your LHS carries Hitec products check out the Super Slim 7 channel receiver or possibly the Electron 6. Both will accept the JR servo leads just make sure if you get one that it is for the Hitec/Futaba shift, not for JR/Airtronics. You must also purchase the correct Hitec receiver crystal on your channel. Yes this will cost a few bucks, but will be plug and play. You wind up with the factory transmitter and receiver and the receiver from your 7C. Sell the JR stuff and use the cash to buy another plane[:D]



wingride47 -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/17/2005 5:31:15 PM)

Stoney, Thanks that's exactly what I will do Have a new 7chp for my raptor that does much more than the 421 and I need another plane. See you were in Nam. Where at? I was down in the delta at Vinh Long. I was with 611th Transportation co. We were the southern most air direct support unit in viet nam.I was there from 70 to 72. Thanks for the advice Patrick Dupuis-wingride47



olstoney -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/17/2005 8:09:29 PM)

Mekong Delta off an LST in a U.S. Navy Huey gunship. We flew air cover for our Riverine Forces and Marines. Try to get a receiver (probably the Super Slim is the best choice), where the leads plug into the front. There will be less interference this way and the wiring will be cleaner. Did the radio setup this morning and I'll try to post some pics on Monday. If the prop drive washer gets here.



Steve Campbell -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/18/2005 4:08:42 PM)

<<...navy Huey gunship...>>

I spent some time hunched over an an M-60D in the back of a D-model Huey myself. Camp Eagle; '70-71.

JR servo leads will easily fit into a Futaba rx. You have to reverse servo polarity in the tx, is all. I've been doing that for a few years, as I've slowly gone through what was left of my JR servo stash after switching back to Futaba three years ago. Futaba "J" plugs will fit into a JR rx if you trim off the guidance flange and thin the top of the plug a skosh with fine sandpaper.

Since a buddy of mine uses a lot of HiTec servos with his Futaba rxs, I assume they work okay. At least, he hasn't mentioned any problems or aggravation.



Steve Campbell -> RE: New Hanger 9 p-51 mustang **Trainer?!?** (9/18/2005 4:11:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Campbell


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeattleFlyer

Sounds like good advice. One question - do I need to poke a small pin-hole in a bubble before applying the iron so that the air inside has somewhere to escape to as the covering shrinks? Thanks in advance...



Sometimes. A lot depends on the size of the bubble and the structure underneath. For example, a small bubble on a flat or slightly curved area will generally tighten up without being vented (poking the hole). Larger bubbles, especially ones on compound curves, can need several vent holes poked in them.

Keep in mind we're talking about UltraCote here, which, IMO, is one heck of a lot more user-friendly than MonoKote. Get a wrinkle in U-Cote, and you have a shot at getting it out. Get a wrinkle in MonoKote, and its there forever.



SeattleFlyer, I dunno how I could explain it any more clearly. Working with plastic/polyester film covering is an art, not a science. The best way to learn is to get some opinions (which is what you're doing) and then just work with the stuff. There are many ways to get the desired results. You just have to find what works for YOU...



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