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Biodiesel - 6/28/2005 8:05:53 PM   
iateyourcheese


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/7/2005
From: Missouri, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Hey all. Been lurking here for a bit and thought I'd post finally.

I teach Chemical Engineering at a university, and part of our summer activities include a camp for high school students. We invite them to come and see what engineering is all about.

I figured I'd try to get them interested in some renewable fuel stuff so I created a project where we make diesel fuel from waste frying oil. But how to test it? Following the information here I modified a little .049 engine to run on diesel.

So far the project is a great success. The students take the waste veggie oil and we react it with methanol and lye to produce biodiesel. We talk about how to push the reaction to get better yields, etc. Then we go outside and throw it in the engine and have a mini-competition based on prop rpm.

Thanks for all the info here that made the engine part of this possible.

       Post #: 1

RE: Biodiesel - 6/30/2005 2:30:48 AM   
chkdye


 

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/14/2004
From: Centerville, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Hey iateryourcheese,
That sounds very interesting.

I have read about the veggie van runs on homemade biodiesel from fryer greese, but did not know that would work in model diesel.

Recently I made some model biodiesel by replaceing the kerosene portion with lamp oil (smells much less) and the lubricant wioth filtered peanut oil. Though I haven;t flown it yet, the engine runs great with it on the high end. Just idle funny, but seems solid though.

Did you have to add anything to your formula to lower the flash point? Otherwise the compression in model diesel engine would not ignite it.

Carey

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RE: Biodiesel - 6/30/2005 12:35:23 PM   
Hobbsy



Posts: 10426
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Cheese, I have played with SoyBean oil blended with ether, castor bean oil and about 1% IPN, I can get it to run fine at full throttle the idle is terrible. If I increase the compression to get a good idle then it has too much for higher speeds. If you put pure soybean oil in as a fuel the engine will fire and blow a smoke ring but will not start. This was done with a Fox .74 with a Davis Diesel head on it.

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RE: Biodiesel - 6/30/2005 8:20:04 PM   
iateyourcheese


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/7/2005
From: Missouri, MO, USA
Status: offline 		We did the real conversion to biodiesel from soybean oil. Add lye and methanol to break the triglyceride into four molecules. This lowers the viscosity and makes it a drop-in replacement for dino diesel. This stuff is good enough that you can use it in your car with no modifications, although I hear it makes your car/truck smell like a hamburger joint. But the big plus is the lack of sulphur, so none of that awful diesel smell.

I suppose you can run straight vegetable oil in a model engine, but it would be tougher. People do it in their diesel trucks/cars but first heat the stuff to 150 degrees F otherwise it clogs the injectors. The biodiesel doesn't have this problem.

As far as mixing goes... I add ether, castor oil, ignition improving peroxide like everyone else does. It's just the kerosene part that's being replaced.


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       Post #: 4

RE: Biodiesel - 6/30/2005 8:51:05 PM   
AndyBorg


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: , CA, ALGERIA
Status: offline 		What's the ratio of methanol, lye and soybean oil you use to get the bio-diesel fuel. Also is there anything else in the process you might have left out; like heating the mixture, filtering it, etc.

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RE: Biodiesel - 6/30/2005 10:30:45 PM   
iateyourcheese


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/7/2005
From: Missouri, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, heating, filtering, etc.

I can't explain it better than they did here:

biodiesel recipe

This is just one recipe found on this biodiesel website.

(in reply to AndyBorg)
       Post #: 6

RE: Biodiesel - 6/30/2005 10:38:06 PM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7494
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline 		What are the criteria for something being classified as biodiesel? It appears to this layperson that there are many possible sources of conversion materials. What common characteristics define biodiesel from its component compounds? TIA

Ed Cregger


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RE: Biodiesel - 7/1/2005 2:54:57 AM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2778
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		You mention you probably could run the veg. oil straight without biodieseling it. Did you try it? It seems to me that it would be interesting to do before-and-after experiments with the students.

Jim

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       Post #: 8

RE: Biodiesel - 7/1/2005 4:30:01 AM   
iateyourcheese


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/7/2005
From: Missouri, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, that may be something to try. The wow factor is that we take used fryer oil, treat it with some chemicals, and end up with a fuel and glycerine (which can be used in soap, cosmetics, candles). I may try straight veg. oil sometime.

About the question, what makes something biodiesel... Biodiesel is the term for fuel derived from renewable sources like vegetable oil. The most common procedure is to split the normal triglyceride into smaller molecules -- this makes it a drop-in replacement for dino diesel. Some people run straight vegetable oil, but this is less common because it's difficult to atomize the fuel and it clogs the injectors.




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RE: Biodiesel - 7/1/2005 4:31:41 AM   
iateyourcheese


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/7/2005
From: Missouri, MO, USA
Status: offline 		Anyone seen r/c cars run on diesel? This is the ideal thing to show the students... make the fuel and let them try a lap with the car. Then the winner gets some type of prize.

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RE: Biodiesel - 7/1/2005 2:58:41 PM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7494
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the explanation.

However, model diesel engines will not run on regular diesel fuel. They burn a mixture of paraffin (usually kerosene) and oil with nearly one third of the mixture being ether. Without the ether, most model diesels will not run at all. The ether is needed to start the fire at the much lower compression ratios utilized by model diesel engines. How are you getting around this in your experiments, if you do not mind my asking?

Ed Cregger


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RE: Biodiesel - 7/1/2005 3:52:38 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2778
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		He did say he just replaced the kerosene with biodiesel to make usual model diesel fuel.

An off comment, I well remember my mother making soap out of lard, lye, and water in a big cast iron soap kettle over a wood fire.

Jim

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RE: Biodiesel - 7/1/2005 8:39:10 PM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7494
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Then there is the problem. My mind is slipping gears again.

Thanks for the correction.

Ed Cregger


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RE: Biodiesel - 7/5/2005 10:20:55 PM   
iateyourcheese


 

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/7/2005
From: Missouri, MO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

An off comment, I well remember my mother making soap out of lard, lye, and water in a big cast iron soap kettle over a wood fire.


Yep, and that is one thing you need to be wary of. It's easy to make soap instead of biodiesel. After the reaction is done we take and mix the
diesel with water. The product floats to the top and any soap or impurities get removed by the water.

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       Post #: 14

RE: Biodiesel - 7/13/2005 10:40:34 PM   
lylecroc


 

Posts: 1
Joined: 7/13/2005
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Status: offline 		I do talks about biodiesel for kids and adults, and would LOVE to demonstrate the use of biodiesel in an r/c car. I don't know anything about r/c cars or engines tho, so can you help me- eg- could I buy one from you? Or could you tell me exactly what to get and where, and anything that has to be done to use biodiesel. I know of one person who had an r/c diesel, but couldn't get it to work on bio for some reason. Any help appreciated! My website, FYI, is http://biolyle.com
Thanks!

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