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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/20/2012 11:33 AM   
iraqi_cowboy


 

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Gents:

I've been reading through this voluminous thread, but haven't yet come across what I'm looking for, or I just missed it.  I'm new to the truly giant aircraft scene.  I've built a number of 80" -90" wingspan aircraft, but I'm wanting to step up.  I recently acquired the 1/3 scale Balsa USA Stearman and I definitely want to hang a gas radial on the front of it.  This will be my first go around with a radial and with a gas engine.  So here are a few questions for the intelligencia:

* I'm pretty drawn to the Seidel/UMS UT 7-260B and I saw a YouTube video where someone had one of those mounted on this plane.  Considering the Stearman should weigh in around 40-50 lbs, would anyone disagree that this is an appropriate engine for this airframe?

* I'm not real sure I'm clear on the fuel requirements for this engine.  The UMS web site says it's a petrol engine, but I presume that means we gotta mix some oil in the fuel.  So, what are we talking about for oil and what are the gasoline requirements?  Minimum octane, etc?

Thanks for taking the time to help out a newbie!



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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/20/2012 12:13 PM   
radial1951


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Cowboy

The engine you refer to is now known as the Evolution 7-260. Fuel is 32:1

See here:  http://www.advantagehobby.com/188892/EVOE7260/?cat=384

Regards  RossG
radial1951


quote:

ORIGINAL: iraqi_cowboy

Gents:

I've been reading through this voluminous thread, but haven't yet come across what I'm looking for, or I just missed it.  I'm new to the truly giant aircraft scene.  I've built a number of 80" -90" wingspan aircraft, but I'm wanting to step up.  I recently acquired the 1/3 scale Balsa USA Stearman and I definitely want to hang a gas radial on the front of it.  This will be my first go around with a radial and with a gas engine.  So here are a few questions for the intelligencia:

* I'm pretty drawn to the Seidel/UMS UT 7-260B and I saw a YouTube video where someone had one of those mounted on this plane.  Considering the Stearman should weigh in around 40-50 lbs, would anyone disagree that this is an appropriate engine for this airframe?

* I'm not real sure I'm clear on the fuel requirements for this engine.  The UMS web site says it's a petrol engine, but I presume that means we gotta mix some oil in the fuel.  So, what are we talking about for oil and what are the gasoline requirements?  Minimum octane, etc?

Thanks for taking the time to help out a newbie!





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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/20/2012 12:20 PM   
iraqi_cowboy


 

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Yep, that's it, all right.  Thanks for the lead, Radial. 

Are we talking ordinary unleaded gasoline from the pump?  And what kind of oil is used for the mix?

Much obliged...

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/20/2012 12:35 PM   
radial1951


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Cowboy

Best look at Horizon Hobby web site, they have the manual available for download as a PDF...

It says 32:1 for break-in and then 40:1 thereafter. Nothing about octane rating so I would assume standard unleaded will be ok.

The EVO 7-160 version is also on the way. We are going to be spoilt for choice!!

Regards, RossG
radial1951


quote:

ORIGINAL: iraqi_cowboy

Yep, that's it, all right.  Thanks for the lead, Radial. 

Are we talking ordinary unleaded gasoline from the pump?  And what kind of oil is used for the mix?

Much obliged...



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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/20/2012 12:55 PM   
iraqi_cowboy


 

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Holy crap, man!  I've bought thousands of $$ worth from Horizon, mostly electric power, and this thing was right under my nose the whole time!  I guess I just didn't think of them when it came to high end gas engines.  Thanks very much for turning me onto this, downloading the manual now...

Is it correct to say that there has been no compromise in quality during the transitions from Seidel to UMS to EVO?





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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/20/2012 12:57 PM   
radial1951


 

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Well, very interesting to see the EVO 160 coming soon.   http://www.advantagehobby.com/204597/EVOE7160/?cat=384

There's a big market for that size engine. Lots of ARFs just the right size. It was a pity the SL150 didn't turn out very good... it was a much more scale looking engine with enclosed rockers.

radial1951
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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/20/2012 2:12 PM   
radial1951


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: iraqi_cowboy

Is it correct to say that there has been no compromise in quality during the transitions from Seidel to UMS to EVO?


*
Hi Cowboy

Umm, errr ...  That's a tall order, although Herr Seidel was involved during the set-up at UMS. At that time, the radial engine dept was definitely a smallish operation. There are "staged" photos showing the same staff in different clothes in different rooms doing QA and "assembly" work!! To be fair, that was a few years ago, well before Horizon.

There are plenty of happy owners of the glow radials, but I haven't seen much comment on the gassers, it might be a bit soon yet. The specs are certainly impressive. I'm surprised Horizon let them leave the UMS name on it.

Regards
radial1951



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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/20/2012 2:13 PM   
Maxam


 

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Status: offline 		Gentlemen, There is a thread covering the 260 radial under warbirds and I have a thread covering the glow radials under glow engines. Both threads are on RCU. I have the 160 and I am putting it in the H9 beast. It swings an SEP 28x14 at 5200 and a Xoar 28x12 at 5600 rpm. The engines run much cooler and the cylinders also run evenly with equal fuel distribution. Vibration levels are delightfully low. I have been running my 160 at 40 to 1 Amsoil interceptor to phillips 66 premium. The engine sounds excellent and collector rings are available. Someone commented about quality, I have heavily flown the 7-70 and the 9-90 and they are a joy to operate and listen to. More pictures at the thread. -Tom

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/20/2012 3:27 PM   
wherewaldo


 

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Status: offline 		thats a great looking engine!
can you tell me if the standoffs came with your engine...
I need 5 standoffs about 1.5in ...does anyone know where i can get these ..its for an asp 400
any info much appreciated ,thanks


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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/20/2012 3:55 PM   
Pete Bergstrom


 

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Status: offline 		Evolution makes some 1.5" (38mm) standoff's

EVO3307

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/standoff-gas-engine-mount-38mm-EVO3307

Pete

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/20/2012 4:04 PM   
Maxam


 

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Status: offline 		The pictured engine comes as seen with the stand-offs to a rear mounting ring which is where the ignition module is located. This picture shows the engine with the collector ring installed. -Tom

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/21/2012 4:06 AM   
kivisto


 

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Status: offline 		Maxam, Does the collector ring install easily (as compared to other set ups!), use the ring exhaust on the H9 Beast?

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/21/2012 11:57 AM   
Maxam


 

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Status: offline 		Kivisto, Yes it is easy to install and yes the beast will use the 160 with the ring of course. I have with near obsession moved everything to the rear to obtimize CG without adding lead hopefully. Even the choke and throttle servos are under the rudder servo. Reciever and all batteries are far back. The batteries are all over the stab in the tail. -Tom

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/21/2012 11:56 PM   
fullmoon_sg


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: the Gnome

Hello John, the 7B is definately 33ccm, the 7A is 22ccm (120 size). My 7A has power similar to a 70 four stroke, turns a 16 x 6 at 6000rpm (about 0.8hp).

I find it siutable to drive the glow plugs all the time (with onboard glow driver), but this obviously is only necessary with the very small 7A, ma 7B runs with 16 x 8 prop with glow driver only at idle.

Fuel with 12% Aerosave synthetic and 15% nitro works very well.

Your 7B seems to have the plastic rocker boxes (valve covers are always plastic) these type is claimed to be a little critical with rocker box problems.
May be You ask Marc if the rocker boxes can be changed to th aluminium type...

Best regards, Jens



Hi Jens,

Will removing the plastic rocker box from the engine solve of the heating issue ? What is the immediate concern if I fly without the rocker box ? Btw, I think it is cool to expose the engine and see the rocker and valves springs at work.

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/22/2012 6:43 AM   
the Gnome



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Status: offline 		Hello John,

the plastic rocker boxes cary the rocker arm axles, I think, the small screw through the boxes are the axles, so You only could replace them by aluminium boxes.

Jens

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/22/2012 2:18 PM   
radial1951


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maxam

Gentlemen, There is a thread covering the 260 radial under warbirds and I have a thread covering the glow radials under glow engines. Both threads are on RCU.....Someone commented about quality, I have heavily flown the 7-70 and the 9-90 and they are a joy to operate and listen to. More pictures at the thread. -Tom

*
Hi Tom

That might have been me commenting on quality! I have let fly a couple of times regarding the build quality of a certain Chinese radial... and I admit to being rather cynical about the ability of UMS-India to take on the manufacture of Seidel radials while maintaining the apparent quality of the German original. Not just accurate machining, that's the easy part with good machinery. The hard bit is the available metallurgy, heat treatment, chrome plating process, Quality Assurance system, etc etc. OS and Saito have been making engines for a long time in a country highly regarded for its engineering prowess. I have two Saitos, a 325R5 and a 200R3, and they are nice.

Since Horizon have taken on the UMS engines I am a LOT more interested. The gassers are very impressive. I like Pete B's low-key, non-pushy approach. It almost seems like he is quietly confident... I have read the excellent posts on your thread, tried to find bad comments, searched for YouTube videos and even rang the Australian distributor today for a chat. They got their first stock in last week. I have the opportunity to be the first Ozzie owner of an Evo 7-77, wouldn't that be good... it's a great looking engine.

Geez what am I saying, until last week I thought they were junk!

Regards RossG
radial1951



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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/22/2012 2:28 PM   
Maxam


 

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Status: offline 		Ross, Thanks for your comments. I have 4 of the 5 UMS engines, two saito90r3's and a 325 r5. The UMS radials are truly a joy to own and I am very critical of quality!! Let me know when you run one! -Tom

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/29/2012 10:03 PM   
AmishWarlord



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Status: offline 		http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAITO-5-Cylinder-Radial-Four-Stroke-Engine-FA325R5-/251004559174?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a71099f46


Why is my definition of "BRAND NEW" so different than these ebayers?

If it's been mounted, on a test stand, had a prop bolted to it, started, ran , and broken in , then it's no longer Brand New, NIB, or even New. It's now a used engine.

Actually it was a used engine from the moment you bought it from the retailer but I give ya that if it hasn’t had a prop bolted to it, been mounted on a plane or test stand, and never has seen fuel.

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/29/2012 10:34 PM   
Maxam


 

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Status: offline 		Also notice the blue liner is from an OS 5 cylinder engine.

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 2/29/2012 10:57 PM   
AmishWarlord



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Status: offline 		Saw this on ebay. It's neat but I can't afford a $600 desk top model.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Radial-Aero-Engine-Working-Desktop-Precision-Model-Ideal-Gift-/170793608861?pt=UK_CPV_Aviation_SM&hash=item27c417a69d

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 3/1/2012 11:56 AM   
radial1951


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmishWarlord

Why is my definition of "BRAND NEW" so different than these ebayers?


*
Because they are SELLING and you are BUYING  :-)

Actually it looks like quite an old 325R5. The rocker covers appear  to be CHROME, unlike the later model with GOLD covers. That explains why I can't see the front glow plug i.e. the earlier ones are single plug heads. The box is also a dead giveaway. My 325 is 2 years old and came in a lovely white box with GOLD embossed SAITO logo etc. with a white hard foam/sponge insert to cradle the engine, tools, flexible stainless steel exhausts etc. I wonder just how long it has been sitting around...

Buyer beware!

Regards, RossG
radial1951


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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 3/15/2012 12:28 PM   
cymaz



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Status: offline 		Someone will answer this question........I have a evo/ums7-77 which has a Xoar 24x10 wood prop. This was used for running the engine in and a couple of test flights.
However I would like to gain more revs at WOT (currently 5000) and more thrust for take off.
Would a finer pitch help?? Or do I need to reduce the diameter aswell. How about a 22x10??

Thanks

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 4/7/2012 1:38 PM   
radial1951


 

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Hi cymaz,

Well your question has been here a while and no takers?  I haven't run my EVO77 yet, but here's a couple of ideas. They may not be perfectly correct, but ...

As I understand it, the PITCH will determine the speed you can do at a given rpm, AND how fast you will get there. A bit like gears in a car. A low gear (pitch) will allow fast acceleration (thrust), but you'll run out of revs fast, too. Prop DIAMETER will load or unload the engine at a given rpm. A change in a car's final drive ratio or wheel diameter (prop dia) will change engine revs at any given speed. This may allow your engine to operate in its optimum rev range at the desired vehicle speed. A bit like using overdrive for high speed cruising.

OK, IMHO, going to a 22x10 will unload the engine, lifting the revs into possibly a better power range. This MAY allow more SPEED AND ACCELERATION (?) if the engine is now producing more POWER due to the increase in rpm from not having to swing such a large prop.

Going to a 24x8 may do only a little, other than more noise (engine and prop rpm) and MORE REVS for the SAME SPEED. Again, this may lift the revs into a better power range, allowing faster acceleration for takeoff.

Luckily, you have a benchmark at 5000rpm with a 24x10. If you want to go faster, I say try the 22x10. Same pitch speed, more revs = more speed. But ONLY if there is enough POWER to actually do it. If there is, you may find the plane will also accelerate faster.

If you just want the takeoff acceleration and vertical performance on those huge loops, then a 24x8 is more likely the answer.

Like I said, "As I understand it..."  I would really like to read more comments on this topic. Especially if it involves actual flight or test data with these engines.

Interesting point, in the test report for my EVO77, the factory (supposedly?) used a Menz 24x8 to achieve 5550rpm (for 20 minutes!)... another benchmark (?). Ok, I'm a bit dubious... I do hope I'm wrong. (I plan to take the back off the engine in a few weeks for a look inside.)

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________

quote:

ORIGINAL: cymaz

Someone will answer this question........I have a evo/ums7-77 which has a Xoar 24x10 wood prop. This was used for running the engine in and a couple of test flights.
However I would like to gain more revs at WOT (currently 5000) and more thrust for take off.
Would a finer pitch help?? Or do I need to reduce the diameter aswell. How about a 22x10??

Thanks



< Message edited by radial1951 -- 4/7/2012 9:39 PM >

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 4/7/2012 7:42 PM   
cymaz



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Status: offline 		Radial,
Thanks for the reply and the theory, great reading. Having now flown the engine 6 times there seems to be a happy medium of 24x10. I have my 777 on a plane of 11KG.

The pull is quite powerful and provides serious take off speed. Up in the air the plane will be happy at 1/2 throttle.

The plane needs 1/4- 1/3 throttle on landing approach as the prop if too slow does act like a large brake!!

Hope you find the info useful for your flying

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RE: Everything Radial Engines - 4/7/2012 9:24 PM   
radial1951


 

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Status: offline 		*Hi cymaz

Ah, the big crop duster. That's just the sort of info needed for the EVO777 radial. Funny about the "happy medium", that's the recommended prop for the engine!

Interesting point about the prop being a brake. Maybe the extra friction of  a radial means it goes to idle when you shut the throttle. Like, NOW. The breeze can't drive the engine via the prop, so the plane stops! I didn't really figure it out until now, but I lost my Yak 50 (9kg, Saito 325R5) on it's maiden landing last year when it fell out of the sky just before the runway. I pulled it back to idle, expecting to glide in. But it slowed right down, dropped a wing, and that was the end of that. I was stunned. Live and learn... good point.

Regards, RossG
radial1951
_____________


quote:

ORIGINAL: cymaz

Radial,
Thanks for the reply and the theory, great reading. Having now flown the engine 6 times there seems to be a happy medium of 24x10. I have my 777 on a plane of 11KG.

The pull is quite powerful and provides serious take off speed. Up in the air the plane will be happy at 1/2 throttle.

The plane needs 1/4- 1/3 throttle on landing approach as the prop if too slow does act like a large brake!!

Hope you find the info useful for your flying



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