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This topic is a continuation of a discussion that originally started in the Flair PT-17 Stearman Thread. As it states this thread is for EVERYTHING Radial Engines. Building them, buying them, flying them, WHATEVER! It's obviously not just the engines that are of interest, but the magnificent aircraft that merit such an investment.
Here are a few links to some of the radials that are available:
Robart Radial Engines Are currently available and are manufactured in the U.S.A. Robart
Seidel Radial Engines Are are manufactured in the Germany. Seidel is a small manufacturer of what are apparently good quality radial engines. They are however, as uncommon as Chicken teeth. Ziroli is supposed to be setting up to distribute Seidel radial engines here in the U.S.A. So far we have heard lots of talk and even read an advertisement in one of the magazines. If you call Ziroli about the Seidel engines they say that they are basically working on it. Seidel
3W Engines Are currently available and are manufactured in the Germany. 3W Engines
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Joined: 11/10/2002 From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA Status: offline
Tom:
You said Seidel, and mentioned no others. But the very first picture you posted is a Robart.
Your second picture is also the Robart radial, even though they are comparatively easy to find, they're hard to pay for. Last I heard was the bare engine at $4800 - exhaust ring, ignition, etc, all additional.
Your last three pictures were Seidels.
The Technopower engines are about as hard to get as the Seidels. I've been waiting for more than three years now for a pair of new ones.
Now to get things going, maybe in a different direction, here's the very first model radial on the market, the Burgess M-5 which was later sold under the Morton name. I remember it in the late 40s selling for $50 in my LHS complete with it's polished aluminum prop. It just barely had enough power to get off the ground. It was spark ignition, gasoline fueled. Alcohol was not an option, running on glow fuel it would self destruct.
The last picture is a real rarity, the Morton M-14 that never went into production.
Bill.
< Message edited by William Robison -- 7/5/2005 2:27:09 AM >
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Real Airplanes have Two Engines AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.
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Good point!
I was intending this thread to pickup where we last left off in the Flair PT-17 thread. I could see that it might be helpful to provide links to several other engine manufactures for those who are unfamiliar so I have cleaned things up a little. I will get RCS on the page as well.
PS, Cost of Robart Engine and accessories: Robart R780=$4,000.00 Collector ring=$325.00 Glow Driver=$149.00 Total=$4,474.00
None of these engines are inexpensive because of the labor costs. I bet even the Morton M-14 sells for more than $50.00 now. Some of these engines have over twice the horsepower of others. The scale of the aircraft typically affects the price of the power plant. I think that should be taken into consideration when it comes to the price.
The only way you will see these prices drop is if the Chinese start making radials. Since the average Chinese is making only $2,000 a year they can afford to undercut everyone else. Personally I like having a variety of manufacturers. I think there is a bigger price to pay when you don't want to pay the price.
< Message edited by Cybertom -- 7/5/2005 10:33:51 PM >
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Rup:
The Magnum/ASP AR5- 400 was originally a 3.0 cubic inch engine, as such it was a copy of the OS radial. The later version has been enlarged to 4.0 cubic inches, if OS punches theirs out to 4.0 inches then OS will bw the copy.
Bill.
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Real Airplanes have Two Engines AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.
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OS must have used the cylinders from their 1.20 twin 120/2 =0.60 0.60x5=3.00, whereas it looks like Sanye went on to use the cylinders from the 160. Just a guess but it seems plausible.
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Joined: 11/10/2002 From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA Status: offline
Rupurt:
From 1945 until 1955 all Japanese products were either cheap crap or a poor copy of someone else's design. From 1955 to 1965 they were getting better, and doing some original designs. During this latter period a person would buy, say, a Japanese car, drive it for two years and since they were so cheap just throw it away and buy another.
As you know, in the years following, the quality of the Japanese products has mostly gotten much better, rivaling the best products from the rest of the world in some cases.
The Chinese are now about where the Japanese were around 1970. In another few years they will probably roll right over Japan, relegating Japan to a third world position in the global economy. I just hope we can keep up with them.
Bill.
Edited to remove politically sensitive comments
< Message edited by w8ye -- 6/12/2006 6:52:26 AM >
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Tom good work on getting this started up. I am still waiting to get my Radial before I start the build of my PT-17. From what I read there is some strength that needs to built into the firewall and surrounding areas to support a engine of any power greater that the 150-180 Flair spec'd theirs out with.
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Absolutely!
Of course I really like the approach I took which was to double up on former #32 with another sheet of 1/8" plywood on the outside. I absolutely would epoxy a block of wood on each side of the torque tube between formers #32 and #36/37 which has the effect of joining all three together at the point where the upper landing gear bolt goes through.
If you have even one hard landing you risk having the upper landing strut crack right through formers #36/37. I know because that's what happened to me. The landing gear strut will pivot on the lower mounting bolt which is supported by the aluminum cross brace. This then forces the upper portion of the landing gear to push through formers #36/37 because something’s got to give. The block of wood in-between spreads out the load so it won't crack the formers. Instead you will now bend the landing gear which is much more acceptable than cracking the inside of your fuselage.
Wrap the torque tube with some fiberglass to strengthen things up. Do all of this and she will support a 7-1/4 lb radial engine without a problem.
PS, Make sure that when you attach the Stabilizer you have a minimum of 3 degrees incidence. 3.5 is what I wish I had in my but it's to late. Go to Flairs website and you will see that people are saying that 3 degrees is not enough. You end up carrying a lot of down elevator. I don't understand why they didn't go with 3.5 to begin with. The incidence of the main wings are 3.5 so a good rule of thumb is to also give the rear 3.5.
I started this new thread about radials just so I can talk about the Stearman...Go figure
< Message edited by Cybertom -- 7/11/2005 2:10:15 AM >
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