ZDZ 60 on an Edge?  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Giant Scale Aircraft - 3D & Aerobatic >> WildHare R/C Support >> ZDZ 60 on an Edge?
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ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/7/2005 5:16:55 PM   
somethnextra


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 7/15/2002
From: Milton, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Has anyone put a ZDZ 60 on the 28% Edge? Would the DA 50 be a better way to go? Also, how much lighter would a composite wing spar and landing gear make the plane?
       Post #: 1

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/7/2005 6:43:42 PM   
rglass1144


 

Posts: 175
Joined: 10/24/2003
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I have the ZDZ 60 on my Wildhare Edge 540 28% and it has more than enough power with a 22-10 prop. 24-8 prop works better at slowing the airplane on landing but I have not been able to flat spin with the 24-8. I am sure it is me and not the plane or prop. Get a carbon fiber wing tube from Troybuilt models or you may bend the aluminum tube like I and a few others have done and have to maybe cut the bent aluminum tube off to get it out of the fuslage. Check your wing tube to see if it has 6061 T6 on it anyplace. If not, I would not use it. Unless of course you don't plan to do any aerobatics or 3D flying.

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       Post #: 2

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/7/2005 8:27:05 PM   
jongurley



Posts: 2798
Joined: 4/24/2003
From: Goldsboro, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Hey rglass1144 I have the ZDZ60 on my WIldhare 28% Extra special I am running a 24x8 Menzs wood, the motor is almost broke in and the motor pulls it out of a hover but it isn't as stout as I thought it would be,, I have no carbon fiber parts,, I figured that 15 oz's saved on the gear and tube is not worth 155 dollars, to me anyhow,,,, What is the best prop for 3D,,, carbon or wood or 24x8 or 22x10 or what do you suggest for my ZDZ60,,, thx or anyone who wants to jump in,,

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       Post #: 3

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/7/2005 10:12:13 PM   
rglass1144


 

Posts: 175
Joined: 10/24/2003
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I am using a 22-10. Unlimited verticle on my Edge 540 that weighs a whopping 21 pounds! A 22-10 is faster, harder to land due to speed, and at high speeds if your control surface gaps are not sealed you could get control surface flutter that generally leads to disaster on a model this large. A 24-8 will give you better downline braking, slowing for landing, and better thrust on the upline from a very low speed start. Carbon fiber prop versus wood? Stay with wood. Cheaper to replace and I don't think you will notice any difference. Cabon fiber is stiffer and will not flex like wood. I have heard people say that sometimes if the cabon fiber prop comes in contact with the ground instead of breaking off like wood does, it can bend the crankshaft on the engine. I like the carbon fiber wing tube so far. My aluminum tube bent. There goes another fifty bucks.

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       Post #: 4

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/7/2005 10:24:52 PM   
somethnextra


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 7/15/2002
From: Milton, FL, USA
Status: offline 		21 lbs??!! That makes for a really high wing loading! I was hoping that spending the extra money for a DA or ZDZ would keep the plane light. Why is your plane so heavy? Do you have a smoke system installed?

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       Post #: 5

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/7/2005 10:48:10 PM   
rglass1144


 

Posts: 175
Joined: 10/24/2003
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Yes I have smoke but it does not add that much weight. I don't know why the thing is so darn heavy. I wish I would have weighed it before I started adding components. I weighed it on two different scales just to make sure I was not in error. But that ZDZ 60 does have the power to haul it straight up from a (sloppy) hover. Well now let me rethink this. It now weighs 4.5 oz less because of the carbon fiber tube. I land on a paved runway and it really takes some time and distance to slow the thing down. In addition to the smoke I have a pilot that weighs 4 oz. Maybe it is all the decals I put on it. If I ever assemble another one I will be weighing everything for sure. But it is fun to fly. Really showy with the smoke on, especially in a flat spin with smoke on using 3D rated. Very impressive corkscrew smoke trail. Knife edge is very easy with this plane also. And the roll rate is unbelievably fast on 3D rates.

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       Post #: 6

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/7/2005 10:51:54 PM   
somethnextra


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 7/15/2002
From: Milton, FL, USA
Status: offline 		That's pretty heavy... I'd like to keep the weight towards the low end of the spectrum. Maybe a DA-50 or Brison 3.2 would be a better way to go. I'm planning on getting a CF wing tube and the FG gear.

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       Post #: 7

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/7/2005 11:49:38 PM   
mstroh3961



Posts: 1822
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Evans, CO, USA
Status: offline 		My Edge 540 with a DA-50, CF tubes and Toms FG gear, 3 1650 NmHD battery packs is 16.75 LB's

With a menzs 22-8 vertical is ballistic.


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       Post #: 8

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/8/2005 12:33:40 AM   
somethnextra


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 7/15/2002
From: Milton, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Mark, what did you use to connect the two rx packs?

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       Post #: 9

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/8/2005 1:17:11 AM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10026
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		ZDZ60--just shy of one lb heavier than a DA50-or ZDZ50 those two weigh exactly same - I have done this comparison with all these engines on same scale at the same time .
The power -with a good in cowl muffler is easily better with the ZDZ60 -it is a lot bigger and a lot more stroke.
If you add a tuned can it will easily turn 24x10 Menz S at 6400.
The ZDZ50 on tuned pipe is really strong - 7200 on 23x8-JAS prop (similar to Mejzlic)
but not all pipes/cans are the same so if you want THE strongest -lightest setup -you really have to check muffer /can/engine combo - swapping the pipe combos around the fifties can equal the ZDZ60 with muffer cans .
I have yet to see any 50 pipe combo that will equal the ZDZ60 on a proper tuned pipe .
Bottom line - the engine with the best exhaust system will win.

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       Post #: 10

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/8/2005 1:26:04 AM   
somethnextra


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 7/15/2002
From: Milton, FL, USA
Status: offline 		So what is the best exhaust system? (for any of these engines)

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       Post #: 11

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/8/2005 1:58:54 AM   
mstroh3961



Posts: 1822
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Evans, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I used MPI switch/charge jacks

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Mark

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       Post #: 12

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/8/2005 3:56:04 AM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10026
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		The best for power?
- properly sized, tuned full length pipe -
The best power boost of any we have run, are the new AMT pipes . They are not as quiet as the KS tuned pipes but so far , show better , usable power boost .
Tuned pipes are not simple "bolt on and go fly items " but properly sized, will make huge differences in power and improve throttle response thru entire rpm band.

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RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/8/2005 12:29:27 PM   
jongurley



Posts: 2798
Joined: 4/24/2003
From: Goldsboro, NC, USA
Status: offline 		What prop do you reccomend for 3d with the ZDZ60 Dick Hanson,,, I live in North Carolina,, and my Extra probably weighs around 20 pounds,,,, I was running a 24X8 menzs and it pulled out OK but wasn't what I was expecting,, It is turning that prop on the ground 6750 rpms,,, thx

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"Practice, confidence and arrogance makes you a better pilot, few can use these to the best of their ability" JONG

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       Post #: 14

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/8/2005 2:39:58 PM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10026
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		good question - first tho - what exhaust system are you using ?
The actual max torque- changes dramatically with the addition of better exhaust systems.
Secondly - 20 lbs is simply the limit for 60 cc on 3D stuff.
For me - That model would be much better with a 80-My best 3D plane in that size was 18.5 lbs w/80 on can.
It also was very good with the 60 - but swapping in the 80 really made a difference.
Everyone has their own idea as to what is enough power for 3D-
Mine is perhaps different than yours .
If the plane will not accelerate vertically from a hover -it needs more poop.
We are just finishing up a 35% WHEXTRA with a ZDZ160 on JMB cans .
That is a 3D power to weight ratio for me .
The RCShowcase chart on power to weight for extreme aerobatics is a pretty accurate guide.-Tho my own models are even higher power to weight. ((summer corrected altitude here reaches 8000 ft somedays).

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       Post #: 15

RE: ZDZ 60 on an Edge? - 7/8/2005 3:03:06 PM   
jongurley



Posts: 2798
Joined: 4/24/2003
From: Goldsboro, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I have a Slimline smoke pitts muffler Dick,,, My plane is stock weight so it is probably around 18 I said 20 pounds just to give a high side weight,,, now does this info help,,

_____________________________

"Practice, confidence and arrogance makes you a better pilot, few can use these to the best of their ability" JONG

(in reply to dick Hanson)