Klotz, who are they trying to kid?  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       


XYZ-26cc Gas Engine
Seller:  XYZUSA
Details:   $219.00   |  4/26/2008   |  Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Klotz, who are they trying to kid?
Page: [1]

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 7/9/2005 10:55:14 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 2997
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		I just picked up some Klotz oil (techniplate and Benol) today and was amazed to see the recommendations on the back of the bottles.

Would *you* use 10% Klotz oil in *your* 4-stroke glow engine?

The figures suggested (which I forget at the moment but which struck me as being *very* low) are much less than I'd dare to use (I stick to 20% by volume -- usually 15% synth and 5% castor).

I wonder if Klotz would offer to pay should you wreck your engine by using their recommended very low oil ratios in model engines?

Or are we all being overly conservative with our oil ratios (yes, we've all heard that Motul can be used in very low percentages (12% or so) without problems - but I'm not sure that Klotz and Coolpower are good enough for such low ratios.

And what's the "good oil" on synth oil?

I've been using Klotz and Coolpower (whichever happens to be available) and had no problems with either (the castor component is my insurance) -- but is one of these two really any better than the other?


_____________________________

When I'm not here, I'm at RCModelReviews
       Post #: 1

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 7/9/2005 2:19:38 PM   
blikseme300


 

Posts: 680
Joined: 6/1/2004
From: Mission, TX, USA
Status: offline 		A few years ago there was an oil available in Oz called "synlube" (blue oil). This was used very successfully at 5% by volume. The problem was that just one lean run cost you a new engine.

10% Klotz is just fine for most 4-strokers. My Saito's run very well using it. Some manufacturers warn against using castor as it creates too much carbon buildup. Remember that the oil in glow fuel does 2 things, lubricate and cool. Very little oil is needed for lube, the rest is "wasted" for cooling. Depending on the installation, cooling can be achieved by either good airflow (baffles etc.) or oil.

The choice of oils and content is your choice, like choice of car or beer. There is no cast-in-concrete standard.

Safe Flying!

(in reply to XJet)
       Post #: 2

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 7/10/2005 6:46:29 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 2997
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blikseme300Some manufacturers warn against using castor as it creates too much carbon buildup.

Castor won't create carbon unless it burns -- and it doesn't burn (unless it's *really* hot) it polymerizes to produce an additional level of protection against metal to metal contact when engine temperatures exceed a safe maximum.

quote:

Remember that the oil in glow fuel does 2 things, lubricate and cool. Very little oil is needed for lube, the rest is "wasted" for cooling.

In which case the former assertion must be false -- because if the oil burns it's adding to the heat of the engine, not cooling it.

You're right though in asserting that cooling is a key function of the oil we use.

I strongly suspect that, providing the mixture is always set rich enough, 10% oil would be fine for most of our model engines -- but the reality is that we don't always re-tune our engine before every flight to ensure it's running rich enough for good cooling, and our fuel systems are so simple (exhaust pressure) that the mixture changes sufficiently from a tank-full to tank-empty situation to produce an excessively lean run with very low oil contents.

It's still amazing to think that although most 2cycle glow motors run 4:1 oil ratios, many 2-stroke (motorcycle) petrol motors get away with 100:1.


< Message edited by XJet -- 7/10/2005 6:47:08 AM >

_____________________________

When I'm not here, I'm at RCModelReviews

(in reply to blikseme300)
       Post #: 3

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 7/10/2005 4:21:49 PM   
Flyer95


 

Posts: 913
Joined: 9/21/2004
From: STOCKHOLM Akersberga, SWEDEN
Status: online 		Xjet,

Look at the Klotz homepage below and read the instructions in the technical sheets for the "original techniplate". They recommend 15-18% oil content for RC-modellengines. /Amir

http://www.klotzlube.com/storeCats.asp?ci=8

< Message edited by Flyer95 -- 7/10/2005 4:22:54 PM >

(in reply to XJet)
       Post #: 4

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 7/11/2005 12:37:00 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 2997
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Check out the recommendation for 4-stroke engines on this datasheet from the Klotz website. They recommend 5%-10% for 4-stroke glow model engines.

I don't know *anyone* who'd dare to run as little as 5% oil in an OS, Saito, YS or other *expensive* 4-stroke engine.


_____________________________

When I'm not here, I'm at RCModelReviews

(in reply to Flyer95)
       Post #: 5

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 7/11/2005 3:47:12 AM   
iskandar taib


 

Posts: 168
Joined: 9/30/2002
From: Kuala Lumpur| Malaysia, MALAYSIA
Status: offline 		Methanol cools far better than oil does. Oil doesn't go through a phase transition like methanol does in a model airplane engine.

(in reply to XJet)
       Post #: 6

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 7/11/2005 3:58:10 AM   
downunder



Posts: 3012
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Precisely Isky, and if you work out the volume of oil that passes through a .60 sized engine every cycle it's a blob about 1mm in diameter. That can't carry too much heat away and stay a liquid.

(in reply to iskandar taib)
       Post #: 7

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 7/26/2005 8:41:01 AM   
Kweasel


 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 1/7/2004
From: fort worth, TX, USA
Status: offline 		10% oil is plenty for a standard fourstroke. The YS induction system requires more oil to keep the crankpin properly lubed. If an engine had a lot of runtime I would use 7%.

(in reply to downunder)
       Post #: 8

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 4/23/2008 10:27:33 PM   
helpFred


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/31/2007
From: maryland, MD, USA
Status: offline 		I use 10 to 20 % Depends on where I am. I also found a site Klotz recommend for good prices and support if you email them they win give you the Best prices in U.S. and International that I have found www.klotzwarehouse.com Klotzlube and Original TechniPlate tech info R/C Model: 2-stroke glow engines mix at 15 -18% http://www.klotzlube.com/storeProdDetails.asp?pi=22 This product works well for me.

< Message edited by helpFred -- 4/23/2008 10:30:11 PM >

(in reply to Kweasel)
       Post #: 9

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 4/24/2008 12:32:23 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 2997
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Since I started this thread (some two and a half years ago - thanks for reviving it HelpFred) I've switched to Coopers Plus C oil which I have been running at 12% by volume for nearly a year and a half with absolutely excellent results.

So I guess you *can* run low percentages without problems but I'm damned if I'd use Klotz at these low percentages -)

_____________________________

When I'm not here, I'm at RCModelReviews

(in reply to helpFred)
       Post #: 10

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 4/24/2008 3:15:44 AM   
helpFred


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/31/2007
From: maryland, MD, USA
Status: offline 		thanks for the reply

have you had any problems when running the Klotz?

what percent did you Run it at?

what is the difference that you noticed between Klotz and Coopers Plus C oil?

I have been running Klotz and I can say that I May have to use a greater % at times and therefore use more product, then Just always mixing 12%




(in reply to XJet)
       Post #: 11

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 4/24/2008 3:35:50 AM   
XJet


 

Posts: 2997
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: helpFred

thanks for the reply

have you had any problems when running the Klotz?

No problems as such but to be "safe" I wouldn't run any less than 18% by volume.

quote:

what is the difference that you noticed between Klotz and Coopers Plus C oil?

The Coopers allowed me to run at a lower-percentage and that means my engines run cooler, idle better, transition better and I get more minutes per tank-full. I've also noticed a performance increase on most of my engines when compared to the Morgan's castor/synth oil they use in Omega. There's also the bonus that I don't have nearly as much "gunk" on my plane at the end of the day.

Coopers similar to the European oils such as Motul and Aerosynth/Aerosave insomuch as it uses a higher quality base stock which allows for safe use of ratios as low as 10% or so although I stick to 12%.

The guy who makes/sells the stuff uses the name "FuelMan" here on RCU and wrote the fuel FAQ and really knows his stuff.

His website has some useful info

I find this quote (from the website) perhaps the most interesting and revealing:
quote:

ORIGINAL: CooperFuels_website
Our racing fuels are well known for the longevity they offer a racing engine. In the past boat racing engines were rebuilt between racing weekends, with our formulations, they are lasting seasons. This is something you generally do not get with the traditional boat fuels out there. With the lower internal friction due to our lubricants you are able to unlock the potential to achieve the maximum performance that is only limited by the mechanical ability of the engine. It is common to hear from our racers that are gaining a 1000 rpm's or more with just a fuel change



_____________________________

When I'm not here, I'm at RCModelReviews

(in reply to helpFred)
       Post #: 12

RE: Klotz, who are they trying to kid? - 4/25/2008 12:16:19 AM   
helpFred


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 8/31/2007
From: maryland, MD, USA
Status: offline 		You can also run heli glow Pure synthetic base materials are blended for the perfect level of lubrication and performance for modern R/C helicopter glow engines. Klotz® HeliGlow® is a special, new generation, light weight-viscosity synthetic lubricant which provides enhanced flow ability and improved lubrication with increased swept volume fuel charge for stronger performance.



I wrote www.Klotzwarehouse.com and they said That base stock is number 5 and is best you can get for base and that any of these products will work and run 10% to 20% run heli glow or benol or super tech.

I get very helpful information on their site and if not-on site I email them.

(in reply to XJet)
       Post #: 13

Page:   [1]
All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Klotz, who are they trying to kid?
Page: [1]





Jump to: